interesting auction pieces

[rootbeer7]

http://watchesofknightsbridge.com/vi...atalogues.html

some amazing pieces; 369 Sub, Comex and Military Subs

[RolexJNJ]

Very nice! Love those 3-6-9 Subs!!

[tix99us]

Really cool pieces in that auction.

[Haywood_Milton]

STOP NOW.

Haywood

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

STOP NOW.

Haywood

Stop? Good or bad?

[Nobody.Move]

There is currently a lot of suspicion swirling around regarding the authenticity of several of the watches.

[Haywood_Milton]

Walk away.

H

[Rameez-Q]

I don't understand who pays these prices at auctions especially when you add auction fees on top which is typically 20-25%

[05carbondrz]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Walk away.

H

Is there a reason You are so short with your replies? How about an explanation? I take it all the Watches they are selling are fake or cobbled together.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

Is there a reason You are so short with your replies? How about an explanation? I take it all the Watches they are selling are fake or cobbled together.

Lack of time. It was important to alert earlier posters to the concerns raised but following a serious fire at one of my shops last Saturday I did not and do not have the time for longer forum posts right now. Alerting fellow members albeit without a detailed explanation of my reasons seemed better than saying nothing. Others can elaborate on the watches as well in due course, but no-one at all had at the time showed any concern.

The conclusion of your final line is unnecessarily pessimistic.

H

[watchlovr]

Details in IG and passion report,
Not good reading, pretty scary stuff.

[05carbondrz]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Lack of time. It was important to alert earlier posters but following a serious fire at one of my shops last Saturday I did not and do not have the time for longer forum posts right now. Alerting fellow members albeit without a detailed explanation of my reasons seemed better than saying nothing. Others can elaborate on the watches as well in due course, but no-one at all had at the time showed any concern.

The conclusion of your final line is unnecessarily pessimistic.

H

I understand where You are coming from.It just seemed over the top to say to run from every Watch in the Auction.Sometimes You have to be pessimistic to keep from losing Thousands of Dollars and approach every deal carefully.

[jfmiii]

hope philipp doesnt mind me linking his instagram but if it prevents even one person here from bidding on anything from this house, it will be a good thing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/-SC3O6LT...xpassionreport

https://www.instagram.com/p/-R8KzRrT...xpassionreport

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

http://watchesofknightsbridge.com/vi...atalogues.html



some amazing pieces; 369 Sub, Comex and Military Subs

Coincidently, those r the items in question. 👎


I blame it on the autoconnect.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

I understand where You are coming from.It just seemed over the top to say to run from every Watch in the Auction.Sometimes You have to be pessimistic to keep from losing Thousands of Dollars and approach every deal carefully.

I think it is fair to point out that I did not say to "run from every watch in the auction." This thread was not about every watch in the auction.

HM

[05carbondrz]

OK,I guess I misinterpreted "Walk Away".

[mjclark32]

[jamesvale]

i'm shocked the auctioneer had the audacity to question Philipp, although i don't personally know him I do follow his post/website and his knowledge is unmistakable. Questioning the authenticity of the pieces does not benefit him in any way, shape or form he like haywood milton was only looking out for potential buyers. good for him imo

[kakadu]

Not surprised at all by this....20 years ago I was truly stung, not by fakery but by ringers
at a very very well known establishment! Echoing earlier sentiment - it beats me who has the money to indulge in these incredible commission rates for buyer and seller!
if these are questionable - alledgedly - then it becomes a criminal matter of deception in my book - but i am not a copper!
David

[mtl514]

I just had a look, I have no idea about the comex but to me that 3-6-9 sub looks fine. It is not one of the fake dials going around.. it's a genuine dial.

[05carbondrz]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

hope philipp doesnt mind me linking his instagram but if it prevents even one person here from bidding on anything from this house, it will be a good thing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/-SC3O6LT...xpassionreport

https://www.instagram.com/p/-R8KzRrT...xpassionreport

I see both IG posts have been deleted.....

[mtl514]

ALL the fakes have the same flaw or tell, there are many more but this is the big obvious one. If the 6 looks like pic 3 (known fake) it's no good, if it's spaced properly like pic 1 (known genuine, photo credit Jedly) then it's good. They might change the design now but up to today that's the rule..

[jedly1]

regardless of the current debate what is important to remember is that the fake 369 dials shown in the original expose published on various forums , were actually several years old .

it is REALLY important to remember that what would be a current generation of the dial makers work, would be a LOT better, with most flaws corrected , especially as they have been regularly pointed out along the way on various forums.

It is also important to remember that even when that older generation were being sold , they were sold fitted in period correct cases , old hands, bit of damage etc, and in at least one case in Germnay presented for sale in the most plausible way, by an elderly gent , in his front parlour, who claimed to know nothing about watches, and to have owned the watch from new .

Given the leaps and bounds improvements the dial makers made during only a small humber of years when working publicly, i would expect their fonts to be almost perfect now after several years of working on them behind closed door.

Whilst sometimes its quite easy to look at a screen shot and see something is wrong, , for me this brings home more and more that this hobby is not JUST a 2 dimensional hobby that effectively takes place on a screen , authentication comes more and more from a 3d real world inspection where textures, tones, lume application (the thing that so often falls down) all come into play.

i no longer give people definitive opinion 'that a watch is OK' on watches i haven't held , it just seems more and more in recent years I've seen watches on a screen that look ok, but the minute i get them in hand it is blatant they are wrong.

[Haywood_Milton]

Hi Jed,

Conversely, do you ever see a watch on screen that you think is wrong, which you then think is real when you have it in hand ?

H

[mtl514]

Jed, I know the dial maker, I hear what you are saying about inspecting in person and not judging based on 2d pics but I have a lot of experience and can help ppl. Any redials being done after those pics were released now have "encan restore" engraved on the back of the dial plates (so ppl know it's a redial). I happen to know that those dials (3-6-9 dbl t<25) were never updated so one made today would still have the same tells and it would have the new engraving on the back. I can tell in 2d that the dial in question is good, unequivocally. The dial maker no matter what ppl want to believe is not trying to fool anyone, unfortunately there are those out there that are.

[mtl514]

Btw, your advice is very good, I'm not trying to make light of it, it's this one particular case that I'm certain about but a watch should always be inspected before buying especially from an auction!

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Hi Jed,

Conversely, do you ever see a watch on screen that you think is wrong, which you then think is real when you have it in hand ?

H

every now and then H , i have to say yes ! and usually my thinking develops on what we accept as ok when i do….if we knew everything it would be a damned boring hobby.


the first thing i try to remind myself everyday is that we are all constantly learning , the more time you spend in this hobby and more watches you see and handle the more you realise that the best we have is a loose set of guidelines not rules.

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by mtl514

Jed, I know the dial maker, I hear what you are saying about inspecting in person and not judging based on 2d pics but I have a lot of experience and can help ppl. Any redials being done after those pics were released now have "encan restore" engraved on the back of the dial plates (so ppl know it's a redial). I happen to know that those dials (3-6-9 dbl t<25) were never updated so one made today would still have the same tells and it would have the new engraving on the back. I can tell in 2d that the dial in question is good, unequivocally. The dial maker no matter what ppl want to believe is not trying to fool anyone, unfortunately there are those out there that are.

well i think many people have different opinions on that, i personally know that the dial maker has been telling people for many years that he marks the dials on the back , including back when he made his services available publicly.

however to the best of my knowledge the fakes 369 dials that were dripped out into the German market were not sold cheap cheap as redials but as original to someone who thought they were getting a bargain, and as far as i am aware from someone who bought one, they were not marked in anyway as not original and this was long after the 'marked on the back' line was used.

now hypothetically speaking, and playing devils advocate, if you could make gilt redials to such a high standard that you could sell them at 30k instead of 1k , or to such an improved standard that you could put them in a watch with some old hands, old bezel, mark the dial up a bit and get 80k instead of 1k , again i think it could be a big temptation …and if that was the case the last thing you would do is tell anyone you had achieved such an ability. if you did and you were a known re-dialer, with existing customers who knew of your work and some of the scale of your capabilities I'm sure the line you would stick to is that you marked them on the back an had made no more and I'm sure you would say that until you were blue in the face.

[mtl514]

I had no idea that he was telling people that years ago.. I was heavily involved in outing that German scheme and helping the victim get most of his money back. The deals were reversed and by default the dials/watches were returned to the criminals. The dial maker himself helped to provide evidence against the criminals and decided to start marking the dials as of then (last year). He has only ever sold them as redials for less then 2k
I have friends who enjoy his work as do I, we would never in a million years try to fool a soul, there are always going to be bad elements esp when like you said there's a massive profit to be made in doing so but he certainly isn't one of those, he does just fine selling his stuff for redial money.

[scooba]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Lack of time. It was important to alert earlier posters to the concerns raised but following a serious fire at one of my shops last Saturday I did not and do not have the time for longer forum posts right now. Alerting fellow members albeit without a detailed explanation of my reasons seemed better than saying nothing. Others can elaborate on the watches as well in due course, but no-one at all had at the time showed any concern.

The conclusion of your final line is unnecessarily pessimistic.

H

Thank You , I hope you get the store sorted and back trading as soon as practically possible. Bloody awful thing to happen to a great forum member and reading the Liverpool echo ,No one was hurt ! .

Things must be crazy for you HM , but thanks for advising us on the WOK auction