Would Love Your Opinions On This Gilt 5513 Submariner

[watchguy1234]

Hi everyone. Hope you're all having a great weekend. I have a few vintage and neo-vintage Rolexes, but nothing older than a 1970's model. I recently got the urge to add a Gilt Submariner to my collection. Most of my vintage pieces have come from one or two reputable dealers whom I trust and enjoy working with. The watch below is from one of these dealers.

What I love about the watch is the overall tropical look combined with the faded bezel insert which makes for a stunning aesthetic, and one that I appreciate. I understand that the dial and hands may be considered damaged to some, which I also respect. The bracelet is not period correct, which I also understand and don't have a problem with. The lugs have a nice wide bevel that was standard for these older submariners, and if they were polished, the overall look is still pleasant to my eyes. The crown guard overall looks true for the age of the watch, although the bottom one has more of a bevel, perhaps done by a polisher to remove a nick in that area.

I'd love to get folks' thoughts as this is my first dive into the 1960's era vintage and I'm personally still learning about all the ins and outs. Once in my hands, I'd likely send it off to a reputable watchmaker (already spoke to one who I really enjoyed and will be working with) to ensure the gaskets and seals are all in proper order so the dial doesn't suffer from any additional moisture.

Higher resolution photos here.

[zapokee]

I don't mind this at all.

If it's from Jacek at Tropical Watch, which it appears to be from the photos, you can sleep easy regardless of your level of knowledge.

[linesiders]

Frankly, I like it.

[Dan S]

This watch has some features that aren't typically the most desirable to collectors, including the finish of the dial and the faded insert. But it's really a matter of personal taste and price, as long as you aren't planning to re-sell it in the near future. Subjectively, I would prefer a cleaner dial, but I can see the appeal of this one. The insert is maybe a little far gone for me.

[Filipão]

I like it. Gilts cannot be too perfect for me, if the price reflects dial's condition, I'd go for it!

[Dan S]

Looks like it's already sold, so perhaps the OP asked for opinions after purchasing. A bit awkward sometimes.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Dan S

This watch has some features that aren't typically the most desirable to collectors, including the finish of the dial and the faded insert.

My 5513 dial from 1964 (1,0XX,XXX SN) displays similar deterioration, although to a much lesser extent. I believe the dial effect comes from tiny specks of lume powder that have come off.

A perfect mirror dial would of course be preferable. If you can find one, that is, and you don't mind spending 20 grand more.

A faded insert is preferable to me.

Here's mine (Photo credit HQ Milton):

[Dr.Smellody]

I like it. I love dial patina. Sure, a perfect dial is a perfect dial, but they these 60 year old survivors are few and far between. Not enough to go around for all who want one. Those who really, really want one have to pay.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by zapokee

My 5513 dial from 1964 (1,0XX,XXX SN) displays similar deterioration, although to a much lesser extent. I believe the dial effect comes from tiny specks of lume powder that have come off.

I believe it's deterioration of the lacquer. I've seen it on many watches without lume.

[1watch]

In general, lacquer can degenerate from age and exposure to elements such as moisture in the case. That said, the lacquer used on the later gilt models between '64-'66 was superior to the earlier lacquer in the '50's. A switch from the more corrosive radium to tritium in the early '60's also did a lot to help preserve the finish.

[swish77]

I get it, gilt dials are almost never perfect, but this dial is too far gone for me, and I'd be concerned about what else will happen to it over the next 10-20 years. Look closely around the "Swiss" marking at the bottom of the dial. What's going on there?

It's one reason I usually stay away from gilts in general. When the dials are good, they're so beautiful. But the majority have issues that go beyond cool aging or tropical effects.

[watchguy1234]

Thanks, everyone for the feedback. I learned a ton from this thread. I had a nice chat with the dealer today and we decided to hold off on this watch and wait for a cleaner example. I still love the ghost insert in combination with a more golden tropical dial, but perhaps one that doesn't have the damage the way this one does at the very bottom. Will keep you all posted!

[RolexBrian]

He buddy, buy the watch that appeals to you. Some here are a bit prudish. Buy what makes you happy!

[Andjwhite]

Originally Posted by RolexBrian

He buddy, buy the watch that appeals to you. Some here are a bit prudish. Buy what makes you happy!

This :)

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by RolexBrian

He buddy, buy the watch that appeals to you. Some here are a bit prudish. Buy what makes you happy!

This name-calling is childish. The OP asked for opinions, and he got them. Members provided substantive observations and shared their personal feelings about the watch, which is apparently what the OP wanted when he started the thread.

[Filipão]

I'm obviously with @Dan_S we did nothing but try to help the OP.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by RolexBrian

He buddy, buy the watch that appeals to you. Some here are a bit prudish. Buy what makes you happy!

“Prudish”? Huh. I guess all that offensive sexual propriety of blemished gilt dials can bring out the priggish nature in some of us.

[harry in montreal]

Rolexbrian, throwing in a nice insult to us all ! Please be sure to post a watch on here as soon as possible. I’m feeling unreasonably prudish today.

[1watch]

Agree that when one asks for opinions, they need to be open minded if they truly want advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RolexBrian]

Lol

[RolexBrian]

6E8FDBEF-D57B-4CDF-A03E-373892FBD337.jpeg

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by RolexBrian

He buddy, buy the watch that appeals to you. Some here are a bit prudish.

Forgive us. We never meant to cause any assistance.

[soicanbefree]

Let's not all act like we don't know what Rolex "Big Brain" Brian meant... and give him a break hes probably been baking on the Playa too long.

Most collectors here never advocate for anything other than a perfect condition watch with a perfect dial.

Most here also do NOT like the Stardust, Spiders, Galaxies, etc that Jacek finds even if they love the man and him as a dealer.

You really aren't going to get anything but an obvious answer like yes its deteriorating a bit and no I wouldn't buy it like that from a collectors forum.

I went and looked at it.. it's a little concerning but I think it is attractive and I love ghosts inserts and the price is reasonable given the condition.

I also like new "Ultra Deep Field" gilt 5513 he just posted as well.

Again I would never buy them, unless the price was really really good, because the difficulty reselling down the road is just more drama than I want to have to deal with... and yes when it comes down to it they are damaged dials.

[stmoore]

This underline is awesome (I’m a huge fan of underlines in general)
https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/3nte

[harry in montreal]

Classic, now Big brain Bryan posts a blurry pic of a watch and a Datsun to assert dominance.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by soicanbefree

Let's not all act like we don't know what Rolex "Big Brain" Brian meant... and give him a break hes probably been baking on the Playa too long.

Most collectors here never advocate for anything other than a perfect condition watch with a perfect dial.

Most here also do NOT like the Stardust, Spiders, Galaxies, etc that Jacek finds even if they love the man and him as a dealer.

You really aren't going to get anything but an obvious answer like yes its deteriorating a bit and no I wouldn't buy it like that from a collectors forum.

I went and looked at it.. it's a little concerning but I think it is attractive and I love ghosts inserts and the price is reasonable given the condition.

I also like new "Ultra Deep Field" gilt 5513 he just posted as well.

Again I would never buy them, unless the price was really really good, because the difficulty reselling down the road is just more drama than I want to have to deal with... and yes when it comes down to it they are damaged dials.

First: It's simply not true the forum members only recommend perfect watches. In fact, there were positive, negative, and balanced comments about this very watch. Did you read the thread? For me, it's relative to price, and I have seen members advise an OP to buy flawed but appealing watches many times, if the price is right. If a local acquaintance had this watch and offered it to me for a good cash price, I would likely buy it. It could be fun to wear. And I imagine many other members feel the same way. I don't see how that is "prudish". Price matters when it comes to watches like this one.

Second: Talk is cheap, and I don't see how you can have it both ways. You wouldn't buy it at the asking price (and I didn't see @Brian rushing to purchase it), but you would recommend it to the OP? He asked for our opinions, and he deserves honesty IMO.

[harry in montreal]

Well, if you are posting questions on here asking for feedback. Best to listen and learn. Some have a low tolerance for defects, and others not so much. Still, condition is subjective but it takes years to assess quality. If you are a newbie, it’s very hard not to get ripped off. I was sold a broken 16750 by a guy in FL when I was 20. So I like to help others, esp new buyers. What’s funny about the troll comments above is that I generally recommend watches that are damaged or display honest age and wear. Still key to discuss is to help in negotiating a price

[RolexBrian]

Wow, "Big Brain Brian", not only prudish but quite complementary here. LOL

[Andjwhite]

I only meant to quote the buy what makes you happy line. Obviously the feedback from the collectors here is invaluable. That’s why everyone (including myself) asks for their advice.

Peace! :)