1680 Red Pricing

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by roh123

But more importantly; I don’t think it will be the best in years to come.

Good. I'm scared to wear them after they reach a certain price point. The gilt 5513 just sits in the safe now. #humblebrag

[chriswang0130]

Originally Posted by fusionstorm

Mine says





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Cool looking bezel!

[RolexDave68]

Attachment 1069300

Get what you like and enjoy the journey


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by Racer X

Yes, of course it's worth the extra money! How do I know? Because these watches always sell at a premium over whites.

Again, however, you're in the minority as things are worth what people pay for them, and they pay extra for red subs.

Well, that's based on an "investment" approach to vintage watches. That's fine for some people, but I've never done that. I'm about wrist presence and the "feel" of a vintage Rolex on my wrist. Again, seeing a little bit of red on a dial, while nice, isn't a detail that is the most important to me on a 1680.

And I'm not sure I'm in the minority. I agree red 1680s are cooler, like most of us, but I'm not impressed to the point of paying double over a white 1680.

The red 1680s aren't "rare" watches, although I realize fewer were made than whites, and I also see more reds on the market for sale than whites, which is an interesting phenomenon.

Here's the last red Sub I owned. I do indeed miss it.

[BrazenC5]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Good. I'm scared to wear them after they reach a certain price point. The gilt 5513 just sits in the safe now. #humblebrag

Got to let them be free! Just insure and wear away!



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[42itus]

Originally Posted by roh123

This may come out as rude but I am trying to make a point.

Red subs are mostly for newbie collectors wanting to buy something they have heard of and something they think is a great investment. Historically it has been like this and with prices going up to current levels I think we have reached a level where’s theres just not much more room. Around ten, twelve years ago red subs and gilt subs cost just about the same. Gilt subs are/were however more rare. Especially in top, top condition. Newbies often focus on easy things such as box, papers, nice insert etc. As red subs are way more accessable, even with b+p, I think the hype just grew as this is what newbies have been discussing from day one. Gilt models have on the other hand sky rocketed in price but this have been happening in much smaller circles of collectors. Still today few people on this forum understand gilt dialed watches and if not handled in person it is difficult to understand why a great gilt dial cost three, four, five times more than a matte model.

Regarding red subs or white versions such as 1680, matte 5512/13, 1665’s etc I think swish77 has a point. Great example 5512’s and 5513’s probably have much more potential today compared to red subs. Just because they, opposite to red subs, haven’t made their trip. Red subs and Exp II’s 1655 was the hot flavour many years ago and haven’t really moved much if you compare to other things. With Daytonas and gilt models being out of reach for many I think the standard matte sports such as 5512, 5513 and white 1680/1665 still have room.

Each to their own though. And for those that had a great journey with red subs or whatever; congrats. I just wouldn’t expect it to continue forever. It is a very common watch and the premium is, at least not in my world, worth it. I’d much rather have a nice no-date sub than any 1680. Regardless color of the Submariner print.

In the end I hope most people buy what they love.

Thanks for your opinion. I'm very new to vintage and what you wrote applies to me and my views. But I'm not looking to start collecting, I just wanted to get a clean example that I could wear as a daily.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by oysterquartz17000

Does anyone wear their 1680's on the original 9315 bracelets?

Yes.

[chriswang0130]

Originally Posted by BrazenC5

Got to let them be free! Just insure and wear away!



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Beautiful pieces...!

[twnturbo]

Originally Posted by oysterquartz17000

Does anyone wear their 1680's on the original 9315 bracelets?

yes

[chriswang0130]

Originally Posted by roh123

Prices been going down lately imho. Just too many around. Buy to keep rather than to ”invest”.

Hey Per, I just thought of a question regarding this. If the price is going down for these, what will be a good price to get it. I understand there are many variables to this. But what will be the price you “wait” to get in. Thank you

[roh123]

Originally Posted by chriswang0130

Hey Per, I just thought of a question regarding this. If the price is going down for these, what will be a good price to get it. I understand there are many variables to this. But what will be the price you “wait” to get in. Thank you

I really have no clue. I lost my crystal ball.. ;)

I think you should be able to buy a very, very nice feet first red sub around 20-22k today. If prices then go up or down.. Who knows? I personally wouldn’t expect these to gain much more but that is probably only me.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by swish77

Well, that's based on an "investment" approach to vintage watches. That's fine for some people, but I've never done that. I'm about wrist presence and the "feel" of a vintage Rolex on my wrist. Again, seeing a little bit of red on a dial, while nice, isn't a detail that is the most important to me on a 1680.

And I'm not sure I'm in the minority. I agree red 1680s are cooler, like most of us, but I'm not impressed to the point of paying double over a white 1680.

The red 1680s aren't "rare" watches, although I realize fewer were made than whites, and I also see more reds on the market for sale than whites, which is an interesting phenomenon.

Here's the last red Sub I owned. I do indeed miss it.

The value, whether you're focused on investment or not (and I'm not), is obviously relevant to whether something is "worth it." In fact, the value expressly dictates whether the cost is in fact worth it. And again, it's not seeing a little bit of red. It's what the red indicates, as I mentioned above.

Also, you are, as a matter of fact, in the minority. If you weren't, the reds wouldn't sell for the premium that they do. You're talking about whether something is worth the additional cost, and the market has the answer, and it is yes. It's not worth it to you which, again, is fine. But the statement that it's not worth it as a general proposition is just not the case, again, as evidenced by market pricing.

I didn't say red subs were "rare," but that they are more rare than the whites. This partly explains the price differential. Regardless, one could make the argument that red subs are rare as this is a subjective call. For example, I have a Mk I red sub and I would say that that one is indeed rare. You could argue that the premium for a red sub having a "long F" on the dial isn't worth it but, again, that aesthetic is not the reason there's a premium, it's what the F indicates (i.e., very first generation of the date sub, low production numbers, etc.).

We're almost saying the same thing here. I would just make the distinction that, while the premium for a red (and it's not "double" the price) is not worth it to you, that doesn't mean that it's not worth it generally. And that's whether you're considering the value of the watch as an "investment" or something else. No matter why you value the watch, it'll still cost you the same.

[jlushing]

The one above looks like a solid 1680 MKV and just needs to add an MK3 insert and will be all in at $20K and will have done well for the dial and condition.
I went down the rabbit hole on these for a year and eventually came out with one very similar to the one above with one the proper insert.
I would recommend deciding what kind of patina you want. If you want a more custard/darker patina, that's an MK4 (around $25k price point with amazing patina dial), or you can do mkV with lighter patina per above with the proper insert for $20k-$21K.
After you decide the patina you want, enjoy the ride and focus on a strong strong dial and matching original hands (my opinion it's 50%+ of the value, and make sure the case isn't a POS. The insert can be found after or it's a bonus if it has a strong mk3 period insert.
In summary:
Mark V light patina: $20-$21K with proper insert and all original (except bracelet prob won't be but doesn't matter).
Mark IV darker patina all original will be $25K+-
Mark1-3 out of my price range but they were topping $30k in a nice example w/o box and papers.
Enjoy the rabbit hole on these and I hope you come out with a great piece. I would go mk4/5 to start and then later when you can really pick apart a watch you can look for the more rare and earlier Mks.
my instagram is larrycollects and has a picture of mine if you are interested.
Have fun!

[btinl]

The red sub may be a vintage newbie watch, but it’s still one of my favorites. Here are my two - MF and FF. I have box and papers for both.




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[fusionstorm]

Originally Posted by btinl

The red sub may be a vintage newbie watch, but it’s still one of my favorites. Here are my two - MF and FF. I have box and papers for both.




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Veddy nice!

Me personally, I’d swap the bezel inserts. Kissing 4 inserts I’d associate with MF reds rather than FF reds........

[chriswang0130]

Originally Posted by jlushing

The one above looks like a solid 1680 MKV and just needs to add an MK3 insert and will be all in at $20K and will have done well for the dial and condition.
I went down the rabbit hole on these for a year and eventually came out with one very similar to the one above with one the proper insert.
I would recommend deciding what kind of patina you want. If you want a more custard/darker patina, that's an MK4 (around $25k price point with amazing patina dial), or you can do mkV with lighter patina per above with the proper insert for $20k-$21K.
After you decide the patina you want, enjoy the ride and focus on a strong strong dial and matching original hands (my opinion it's 50%+ of the value, and make sure the case isn't a POS. The insert can be found after or it's a bonus if it has a strong mk3 period insert.
In summary:
Mark V light patina: $20-$21K with proper insert and all original (except bracelet prob won't be but doesn't matter).
Mark IV darker patina all original will be $25K+-
Mark1-3 out of my price range but they were topping $30k in a nice example w/o box and papers.
Enjoy the rabbit hole on these and I hope you come out with a great piece. I would go mk4/5 to start and then later when you can really pick apart a watch you can look for the more rare and earlier Mks.
my instagram is larrycollects and has a picture of mine if you are interested.
Have fun!

Hey Thank you so much, this is really helpful. I think my preference is more MKIV, now I have a better idea on what to look for. Appreciate it

[chriswang0130]

Originally Posted by btinl

The red sub may be a vintage newbie watch, but it’s still one of my favorites. Here are my two - MF and FF. I have box and papers for both.




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Beautiful! Which one do you like more ?

[jlushing]

Originally Posted by 42itus

Thanks for your opinion. I'm very new to vintage and what you wrote applies to me and my views. But I'm not looking to start collecting, I just wanted to get a clean example that I could wear as a daily.

The red I was referencing was 42itus - not the one directly above sorry. It’s very fun learning so keep doing your research and you will find the right one. The prices aren’t going to change in 30-60 days, so just do your homework and you’ll have a good one for life. Enjoy!

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by roh123

This may come out as rude but I am trying to make a point.

Red subs are mostly for newbie collectors wanting to buy something they have heard of and something they think is a great investment. Historically it has been like this and with prices going up to current levels I think we have reached a level where’s theres just not much more room. Around ten, twelve years ago red subs and gilt subs cost just about the same. Gilt subs are/were however more rare. Especially in top, top condition. Newbies often focus on easy things such as box, papers, nice insert etc. As red subs are way more accessable, even with b+p, I think the hype just grew as this is what newbies have been discussing from day one. Gilt models have on the other hand sky rocketed in price but this have been happening in much smaller circles of collectors. Still today few people on this forum understand gilt dialed watches and if not handled in person it is difficult to understand why a great gilt dial cost three, four, five times more than a matte model.

. . . .

In the end I hope most people buy what they love.

You're right, your comments are rude. Actually, I'd say it's more accurate to describe them as elitist and pretentious. While red subs are quite popular and, because of that, those new to the vintage Rolex world learn about them quickly, to say that these watches are somehow only for "newbies," which itself is a pejorative term, is, frankly, obnoxious. I agree with your view that people should buy what they love. I would further argue that, if what you love is a red sub, there's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make you a newbie, which is generally regarded as a clueless neophyte who doesn't have the sophistication to appreciate what is truly worthy of admiration, as you indicate gilt subs are. I, for example, have collected vintage Rolex for over a decade and red subs are still my favorite. So, not just for newbs.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Racer X

You're right, your comments are rude. Actually, I'd say it's more accurate to describe them as elitist and pretentious. While red subs are quite popular and, because of that, those new to the vintage Rolex world learn about them quickly, to say that these watches are somehow only for "newbies," which itself is a pejorative term, is, frankly, obnoxious. I agree with your view that people should buy what they love. I would further argue that, if what you love is a red sub, there's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make you a newbie, which is generally regarded as a clueless neophyte who doesn't have the sophistication to appreciate what is truly worthy of admiration, as you indicate gilt subs are. I, for example, have collected vintage Rolex for over a decade and red subs are still my favorite. So, not just for newbs.

Well.. Sorry you feel that way. Tried to make a point on how I see the market.

Of course you could still love them. Why not? It is nice watches. It is still however the most common ’prestige’ vintage sports Rolex that newcomers go for. And have been that for many, many years. Still not a bad watch. I hope I never wrote that.

And yes. For sure pretentious and elitist.

Enjoy your watch.

[charlitos]

It was my grail and a few months ago it arrived. I use with 9315.





For me, red gives a special touch


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[jlushing]

Here’s my 1680 mark V I recently acquired. Not easy finding the right one! The patina just drives up the price - wish mine was darker but the dial is perfect so it’s worth it to me.


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[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by Racer X

You're right, your comments are rude. Actually, I'd say it's more accurate to describe them as elitist and pretentious. While red subs are quite popular and, because of that, those new to the vintage Rolex world learn about them quickly, to say that these watches are somehow only for "newbies," which itself is a pejorative term, is, frankly, obnoxious. I agree with your view that people should buy what they love. I would further argue that, if what you love is a red sub, there's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make you a newbie, which is generally regarded as a clueless neophyte who doesn't have the sophistication to appreciate what is truly worthy of admiration, as you indicate gilt subs are. I, for example, have collected vintage Rolex for over a decade and red subs are still my favorite. So, not just for newbs.

Well I am glad some one said it. Cheers.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Racer X

You're right, your comments are rude.

I don't see any abuse, vulgarity or rudeness in the poster's opinion. It's just a view.

[subx]

Im not a newbie and after owning many other references,
sold them all and only have eyes for red 1680 subs,

I think they are the sexiest looking submariners ever made, there ;)

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by roh123

...
Enjoy your watch.

I do indeed.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by zapokee

I don't see any abuse, vulgarity or rudeness in the poster's opinion. It's just a view.

Sure, and I posted my view. Not for nothing, one can dismiss any insulting or condescending statement as "just a view." That doesn't make it okay.

Regardless, it's not a big deal. I just thought it was an obnoxious thing to say, and shared that opinion. Carry on.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Racer X

Regardless, it's not a big deal. I just thought it was an obnoxious thing to say, and shared that opinion. Carry on.

All good. Life's too short.

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by Racer X

Sure, and I posted my view. Not for nothing, one can dismiss any insulting or condescending statement as "just a view." That doesn't make it okay.

Regardless, it's not a big deal. I just thought it was an obnoxious thing to say, and shared that opinion. Carry on.

I agree and to have that opionion and share it in a thread specifically about 1680 red subs was just that guy trolling.

[zapokee]

Feels like someone's going to pull out the Hitler argument soon...