ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

JParm · 9 October 2019, 05:43 AM

I believe the dial below to be a service dial. If I'm wrong, please disregard the post!

However, if it is in fact a service dial, is the dealer wrong in saying it is original? It's original to Tudor, sure - but as a buyer, I would be pretty upset if I were to purchase this and then find out later that it's not the original dial that came with the watch but in fact a service dial.

What are your thoughts? Is this knowingly misleading the customer?

Kingsking · 9 October 2019, 05:47 AM

IMO yes thats misleading the buyer and if i was the buyer i would want a refund. Original dials are one of the things that pump the value up the most.

Kingsking · 9 October 2019, 05:48 AM

I'll add original dial or not its a beautiful watch and as long as the price was aligned with the replacement parts i would be happy to own it.

Dan S · 9 October 2019, 05:51 AM

Service dials are definitely not original. Authentic, yes ... original, no.

Robtayham · 9 October 2019, 05:58 AM

Service dials are OEM. But, they aren’t the dials that originally came with the watch. So they are ‘original’ to the watch.

JParm · 9 October 2019, 05:59 AM

Agree with Dan S and kingsking - I'm just glad that I went here first to get opinions before buy my first vintage.

Had this been a couple months back, I'd be like wow - what a beautiful watch with all original parts (as per the dealer)!

Truly a shame that they cannot differentiate or at the very least be outwardly truthful in their descriptions.

JParm · 9 October 2019, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robtayham

Service dials are OEM. But, they aren’t the dials that originally came with the watch. So they are ‘original’ to the watch.

You mean they AREN'T original to the watch.

Verdi · 9 October 2019, 06:13 AM

A service dial is an original dial!
It is not aftermarket or incorrect dials! That is what the seller means.

I think its a fair description. Whoever is aware about service dials can ask if in doubt. Seller can elaborate if its got the knowledge and is honest!

JParm · 9 October 2019, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdi

A service dial is an original dial!

A dissenter! So I guess you wouldn't be upset then if you bought a watch like that.

Dan S · 9 October 2019, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdi

A service dial is an original dial!
It is not aftermarket or incorrect dials! That is what the seller means.

The plot thickens ...

JParm · 9 October 2019, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan S

The plot thickens ...

Indeed! So let's put the whole description out there, as the dealer presents it:

"Dial:
Original matte blue dial with snowflake indexes in mint condition.
Tritium painted markers.
Original snowflake hands with tritium lume, some cracking on hours hand"

I wonder if I call the dealer and ask, what would they say to our question?

Verdi · 9 October 2019, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

A dissenter! So I guess you wouldn't be upset then if you bought a watch like that.

Upset?
If you dip your finger in the vintage sea you better do your homework. Know what you are looking for and what questions to ask.

Original can mean authentic and some seller are using this sense to describe elements of the watch.
Can also mean the first dial of the watch. So, know what to ask and what you are looking for otherwise you are prey.

JParm · 9 October 2019, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdi

Upset?
If you dip your finger in the vintage sea you better do your homework. Know what you are looking for and what questions to ask.

Original can mean authentic and some seller are using this sense to describe elements of the watch.
Can also mean the first dial of the watch. So, know what to ask and what you are looking for otherwise you are prey.

I definitely agree with this. That's not to say that sellers can't be better about how they present things. Vintage isn't the easiest sea to navigate if we use your term, so being completely forthcoming doesn't hurt as a dealer, does it?

In my opinion, it actually makes the dealer seem more trustworthy - but hey, let's put it all on the customer these days...

Kingface66 · 9 October 2019, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdi

A service dial is an original dial!
It is not aftermarket or incorrect dials! That is what the seller means.

I think its a fair description. Whoever is aware about service dials can ask if in doubt. Seller can elaborate if its got the knowledge and is honest!

I think it's fair to say it's a question of semantics.

"Is this a real Tudor dial?" "Why, yes. It's an original Tudor dial."

vs.

"Is this dial original to this watch?" "No, the watch started out with a different dial, which was later replaced with a service dial."

The question remains: What did the seller mean?

JParm · 9 October 2019, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I think it's fair to say it's a question of semantics.

"Is this a real Tudor dial?" "Why, yes. It's an original Tudor dial."

vs.

"Is this dial original to this watch?" "No, the watch started out with a different dial, which was later replaced with a service dial."

The question remains: What did the seller mean?

This is exactly my point. I don't doubt that this seller knows what the dial is (service), yet it's put out there to look like it's original to the watch. In the vintage market, most dealers know that people want all original, so in my opinion, this is a bit of sleight of hand to entice new / unknowing customers.

037 · 9 October 2019, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I think it's fair to say it's a question of semantics.

"Is this a real Tudor dial?" "Why, yes. It's an original Tudor dial."

vs.

"Is this dial original to this watch?" "No, the watch started out with a different dial, which was later replaced with a service dial."

The question remains: What did the seller mean?

Agreed.

If a watch has a service dial then the listing should state that. But, I have to think some dealers don't know, haven't done the research or hope the buyer doesn't notice.

JParm · 9 October 2019, 09:21 AM

To be clear - this is not the snowflake that I recently purchased; just an ad from a dealer!

1665fan · 9 October 2019, 10:12 AM

Service dial=not original. But is authentic Tudor...another lying dealer...who is surprised????

springer · 9 October 2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robtayham

Service dials are OEM. But, they aren’t the dials that originally came with the watch. So they are ‘original’ to the watch.

Service dials are not OEM...or original equipment.

BrazenC5 · 9 October 2019, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

Service dials are not OEM...or original equipment.

If Rolex manufacturers replacement dials, wouldn't they be considered OEM?

If there is a standard across industries, I would think it similar to auto parts such as OEM replacement parts.

To the OP I've seen the tactic where "original" was used in conjunction with authentic replacement parts and do think it's a bit shady, but that happens everywhere and due diligence on the buyer is just a necessity.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

BrazenC5 · 9 October 2019, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

I believe the dial below to be a service dial. If I'm wrong, please disregard the post!

However, if it is in fact a service dial, is the dealer wrong in saying it is original? It's original to Tudor, sure - but as a buyer, I would be pretty upset if I were to purchase this and then find out later that it's not the original dial that came with the watch but in fact a service dial.

What are your thoughts? Is this knowingly misleading the customer?

What makes you believe it's a service dial?

I'm not as versed on Tudor dial variants.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Dan S · 9 October 2019, 11:25 AM

Look at some original dials and you will see various differences. The "SUBMARINER" font is particularly obvious to me.

Robtayham · 9 October 2019, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

You mean they AREN'T original to the watch.

Correct, not original to the watch. But still a genuine Rolex OEM dial.

BrazenC5 · 9 October 2019, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan S

Look at some original dials and you will see various differences. The "SUBMARINER" font is particularly obvious to me.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

JParm · 9 October 2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrazenC5

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

An original dial for measure (my watch)...and when I say original, I mean to this watch specifically and not replaced with an OEM service dial

12321899m_zoom_v1567717841085

Robtayham · 9 October 2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer

Service dials are not OEM...or original equipment.

Good clarification. It was my attempt to use a term to describe something manufactured as an original, genuine, official Rolex part. Not aftermarket, not a knock off.

Interestingly, I just had RSC NY replace my 1979 18038 DD dial with a service dial that Rolex makes exclusively to fit the 18038. Under no circumstances do I view that as an original dial, nor would I ever try to sell it as an original dial. Yes, it’s an authentic Rolex part. Just not original.

Tools · 9 October 2019, 11:40 AM

OEM is an acronym about the Manufacturer. An OEM dial simply means the dial was manufactured by the original company, it does not mean that the dial was ever "original" to anything, only that it is authentic; not aftermarket.

Putting a Luminova Rolex dial in a tritium-era watch, the dial is an OEM dial (made by Rolex), it is not the original dial.

cgaites · 9 October 2019, 12:22 PM

Not going to comment on the use of “original” in the ad highlighted by the OP. However, across industries OEM has a standard meaning. OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer’s. For example, a Porsche dealer uses OEM brake pads, as opposed to aftermarket pads, when they perform a brake job. Similarly, a service dial from the original manufacturer is an OEM part. Not original to the watch, just like most cars aren’t running original brake pads, but still an OEM part.

springer · 9 October 2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrazenC5

If Rolex manufacturers replacement dials, wouldn't they be considered OEM?

If there is a standard across industries, I would think it similar to auto parts such as OEM replacement parts.

To the OP I've seen the tactic where "original" was used in conjunction with authentic replacement parts and do think it's a bit shady, but that happens everywhere and due diligence on the buyer is just a necessity.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

You are correct...when you called them OEM replacement parts. They are replacement parts!!!

Kingsking · 9 October 2019, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

Indeed! So let's put the whole description out there, as the dealer presents it:

"Dial:
Original matte blue dial with snowflake indexes in mint condition.
Tritium painted markers.
Original snowflake hands with tritium lume, some cracking on hours hand"

I wonder if I call the dealer and ask, what would they say to our question?

He lists the hands as original too , are they service hands or original to the watch?

9 October 2019, 05:43 AM	#1
JParm 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NorCal Watch: Yes! Posts: 6,556	Would you consider a service dial "original"? I believe the dial below to be a service dial. If I'm wrong, please disregard the post! However, if it is in fact a service dial, is the dealer wrong in saying it is original? It's original to Tudor, sure - but as a buyer, I would be pretty upset if I were to purchase this and then find out later that it's not the original dial that came with the watch but in fact a service dial. What are your thoughts? Is this knowingly misleading the customer? __________________

9 October 2019, 05:47 AM	#2
Kingsking "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: montreal Posts: 622	IMO yes thats misleading the buyer and if i was the buyer i would want a refund. Original dials are one of the things that pump the value up the most. __________________ 5513,16613,16710,116233,9411/0

9 October 2019, 05:48 AM	#3
Kingsking "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: montreal Posts: 622	I'll add original dial or not its a beautiful watch and as long as the price was aligned with the replacement parts i would be happy to own it. __________________ 5513,16613,16710,116233,9411/0

9 October 2019, 05:51 AM	#4
Dan S 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 5,907	Service dials are definitely not original. Authentic, yes ... original, no. __________________ @oldwatchdan on IG

9 October 2019, 05:59 AM	#6
JParm 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NorCal Watch: Yes! Posts: 6,556	Agree with Dan S and kingsking - I'm just glad that I went here first to get opinions before buy my first vintage. Had this been a couple months back, I'd be like wow - what a beautiful watch with all original parts (as per the dealer)! Truly a shame that they cannot differentiate or at the very least be outwardly truthful in their descriptions. __________________

9 October 2019, 05:58 AM	#5
Robtayham "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Texas Posts: 532	Service dials are OEM. But, they aren’t the dials that originally came with the watch. So they are ‘original’ to the watch.

9 October 2019, 06:13 AM	#8
Verdi "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2015 Real Name: Mitch Location: UAE Watch: Big Ben Posts: 2,451	A service dial is an original dial! It is not aftermarket or incorrect dials! That is what the seller means. I think its a fair description. Whoever is aware about service dials can ask if in doubt. Seller can elaborate if its got the knowledge and is honest! __________________ IG: @watch_idiot_savant

9 October 2019, 09:21 AM	#17
JParm 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: NorCal Watch: Yes! Posts: 6,556	To be clear - this is not the snowflake that I recently purchased; just an ad from a dealer! __________________

9 October 2019, 10:12 AM	#18
1665fan "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: East coast Posts: 6,591	Service dial=not original. But is authentic Tudor...another lying dealer...who is surprised????

9 October 2019, 11:25 AM	#22
Dan S 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 5,907	Look at some original dials and you will see various differences. The "SUBMARINER" font is particularly obvious to me. __________________ @oldwatchdan on IG

9 October 2019, 11:40 AM	#27
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 DATE-JUST41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,049	OEM is an acronym about the Manufacturer. An OEM dial simply means the dial was manufactured by the original company, it does not mean that the dial was ever "original" to anything, only that it is authentic; not aftermarket. Putting a Luminova Rolex dial in a tritium-era watch, the dial is an OEM dial (made by Rolex), it is not the original dial. __________________ (Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member

9 October 2019, 12:22 PM	#28
cgaites "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Colorado Posts: 90	Not going to comment on the use of “original” in the ad highlighted by the OP. However, across industries OEM has a standard meaning. OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer’s. For example, a Porsche dealer uses OEM brake pads, as opposed to aftermarket pads, when they perform a brake job. Similarly, a service dial from the original manufacturer is an OEM part. Not original to the watch, just like most cars aren’t running original brake pads, but still an OEM part.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)