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Old 11 September 2017, 03:00 PM   #1
007timer
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Quick hand switch. Beware!

This is one of my first posts on this forum. Consider this to be public service announcement.

A little background. I have owned a few Rolex, Omega, Breitling and other watches over the years. I am familiar with the new and second hand markets.

In January of this year, I saw an ad on Craigslist for a Rolex Submariner 116610LN. The ad stated that it was a 2015 watch with no box & papers. After making contact with the seller I agreed on a price of $5,000. However a condition of my purchase is to have the watch inspected by a Rolex watchmaker that has over 15 years of servicing Rolex watches.

The kid showed up with the watch "on belay of his dad". Handed the watch to the watchmaker and he inspected every aspect of the watch. Clasp, links, bracelet, bezel, case, and opened the back and inspected the gears and movement. EVERYTHING checked out 100%. To the extent that my watch maker said "if you don't end up buying it, I will" absolutely good clean watch with no issues whatsoever.

The seller claimed that his Dad really wanted a little more money that what we agreed on and wanted to call him to make sure it's ok. He made the call and said. Ok. He got paid, I got the watch and I wore for 9 months. Fast forward to last week. I had an opportunity to buy a PP Nautilus Moonphase watch. Went to my jeweler to authenticate when he asked me about my Sub. I gaveit to him for a quick cleaning while I was there, that's when he came back saying "this watch is off" it looks right but something is not quiet right. Asked if the watch ever left my possession or if anyone serviced it, the answer was no. He asked if he can open the watch and that's when we discovered that I had been taken. Back in January, when the watch maker handed the watch back on the counter, he switched the watch with a fake one. Not having any reason to re-check my watch it went unnoticed for 9 whole months. Again, I have 4 other Rolex watches at home and I never suspected it. It's a $1,250 fake watch. Even the movement is an exact copy. The watch maker showed it to two other guys who have less experience and at first glance they both said yes it's real until they started to notice things like the quality of the finish on the movement and the top of the screws. Very subtle and easy to miss. All the markings were correct, stamps and numbers are all present. This is very scary that they are getting this good at faking these watches. I took every precaution I can and the fact that he put his hands on it on the counter in front of cost me the losses.

Advice. If you buy used, follow all the precautions. But from now on, if anyone touches the watch after it's been authenticated, have it checked again.

Good luck and be careful out there.
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Old 11 September 2017, 07:39 PM   #2
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I'd be curious to see some pics of your piece :/ did it keep time well whilst you wore it?

Have heard there's replica/clones of 3135 movt but have never come across any yet in person. (Then again not likely to find them in the circles I mosh with nor actively looking around backstreets of Asia either)

APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE FOR DISCUSSING FAKES, y'all.
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Old 11 September 2017, 10:55 PM   #3
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Just terrible imho


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Old 11 September 2017, 11:00 PM   #4
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WOW!

I'm sorry to hear that and thank you for sharing your story!
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Old 11 September 2017, 11:25 PM   #5
uncleluck
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What's the chances of a scamming kid having a real one though? Isn't it more likely the watchmaker originally opened it and saw the Rolex movement and said it was fine... Then since has found out that they can copy the movement? I know a lot of people that just say "take the back off and you'll know" but I bet a lot of them wouldn't be expecting a near identical fake movement.

You said it yourself, he showed it to two other watchmakers there and they said it was real. My money is on him more likely becoming wise to these $1250 near perfect fakes since the last time he saw it.
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Old 12 September 2017, 12:52 AM   #6
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I doubt this
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Old 12 September 2017, 02:15 AM   #7
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Sorry to hear of your situation. One prevention measure you could take up going forward is asking for the serial # of the watch before you meet up with the seller and match it with the watch you send for authentication and the watch in your hands as you hand over the money. If not the full serial #, at least the last 4 digits or every other character.
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Old 12 September 2017, 10:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post
I'd be curious to see some pics of your piece :/ did it keep time well whilst you wore it?

Have heard there's replica/clones of 3135 movt but have never come across any yet in person. (Then again not likely to find them in the circles I mosh with nor actively looking around backstreets of Asia either)

APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE FOR DISCUSSING FAKES, y'all.
I will open the backhand take a picture. I'll post it. Not to discuss fakes. But to bring awareness. I would hate for anyone to experience what I just went through
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Old 12 September 2017, 10:56 AM   #9
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Sorry to hear of your situation. One prevention measure you could take up going forward is asking for the serial # of the watch before you meet up with the seller and match it with the watch you send for authentication and the watch in your hands as you hand over the money. If not the full serial #, at least the last 4 digits or every other character.
I should have checked the Serial before and after. But who knows if these guys requested a clone with the serial of a real Rolex. I have trust issues now.
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Old 12 September 2017, 11:15 AM   #10
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Quick hand switch. Beware!

Which watchmaker authenticated the first time?

Did the original watchmaker switch out the movement during his inspection? Did he just miss the fact that it was a fake?

Or did the kid do a switch while he was on the phone after a real one had been inspected?

I'm confused, but I'm also tired after a long day.


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Old 12 September 2017, 02:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by southtexas View Post
Which watchmaker authenticated the first time?

Did the original watchmaker switch out the movement during his inspection? Did he just miss the fact that it was a fake?

Or did the kid do a switch while he was on the phone after a real one had been inspected?

I'm confused, but I'm also tired after a long day.


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The kid switched the watches after authentication. The watch maker did everything in front of me. It never left my sight when he had it. But the kid had it after.
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Old 12 September 2017, 02:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post
I'd be curious to see some pics of your piece :/ did it keep time well whilst you wore it?

Have heard there's replica/clones of 3135 movt but have never come across any yet in person. (Then again not likely to find them in the circles I mosh with nor actively looking around backstreets of Asia either)

APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE FOR DISCUSSING FAKES, y'all.
Here you go. Just got home from work
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2047.jpg (251.4 KB, 1303 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2051.jpg (213.5 KB, 1309 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2049.jpg (184.5 KB, 1305 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2050.jpg (230.8 KB, 1308 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2048.jpg (111.5 KB, 1304 views)
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Old 12 September 2017, 02:54 PM   #13
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A couple more pix
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File Type: jpg IMG_2054.jpg (193.3 KB, 1303 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2053.jpg (168.2 KB, 1304 views)
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Old 12 September 2017, 07:16 PM   #14
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Neat pics, much appreciated.

The 116610 inscription, is that Lasered? Etched vs mechanical engraving/gouging.
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Old 12 September 2017, 09:42 PM   #15
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Movement surely FAKE.
LEC on sapphire gives it away too.
adam
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Old 12 September 2017, 11:48 PM   #16
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Neat pics, much appreciated.

The 116610 inscription, is that Lasered? Etched vs mechanical engraving/gouging.
It appears lasered.
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Old 12 September 2017, 11:52 PM   #17
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Movement surely FAKE.
LEC on sapphire gives it away too.
adam
Thank you. I never opened it myself after it was checked until last night. I had no reason to. Now I have a very expensive paperweight.
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Old 12 September 2017, 11:55 PM   #18
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I doubt this
What are you doubting?
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Old 12 September 2017, 11:57 PM   #19
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Thank you. I never opened it myself after it was checked until last night. I had no reason to. Now I have a very expensive paperweight.
Sorry to that.
A
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Old 13 September 2017, 12:04 AM   #20
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"A little background. I have owned a few Rolex, Omega, Breitling and other watches over the years. I am familiar with the new and second hand markets."..

Then you should have known better than to browse the ads on Craigslist?

"In January of this year, I saw an ad on Craigslist for a Rolex Submariner 116610LN. The ad stated that it was a 2015 watch with no box & papers."

...Then why did you buy it? A newer watch should have everything with it. Including box, papers and an original receipt.

"After making contact with the seller I agreed on a price of $5,000..." It its too good to be true....

"The kid showed up with the watch "on belay of his dad". ...and you gave a kid your money? Seriously?

The whole transaction from beginning to end was a recipe for disaster. Buy new from an AD is my advice.
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Old 13 September 2017, 12:22 AM   #21
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It's not the kid that scammed him, it's the watch guy he brought it in to have it checked out. He swapped the kid's real one for a fugazzi. Really sucks if I understand it right. That's why i always try to auth myself :(, many scumbags around.
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Old 13 September 2017, 12:33 AM   #22
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sucks big time. it could have been the kid or the watch maker or it could have been both of them acting together.
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Old 13 September 2017, 12:41 AM   #23
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It's not the kid that scammed him, it's the watch guy he brought it in to have it checked out. He swapped the kid's real one for a fugazzi. Really sucks if I understand it right. That's why i always try to auth myself :(, many scumbags around.
Wrong. OP states "The kid switched the watches after authentication. The watch maker did everything in front of me. It never left my sight when he had it. But the kid had it after."
Kid switched watch when he went to 'confirm' price with 'Dad'.
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Old 13 September 2017, 01:11 AM   #24
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Reading this thread I see the following possibilities

1) the kid did it - but if he was so well organized it would have been a lot better to ask around 6500 for being credible and in the tale it wasn't mentioned, that he took the watch back in hand
2) the kid and the watchmaker did it together - we don't know, HOW the watchmaker was choosen
3) the OP wants to see how good is the fake and/or searches a watchmaker with which he can create the con described

I'm missing another possibilty ?

P.S.: Sorry for the mistrust in mankind
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Old 13 September 2017, 01:31 AM   #25
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3) the OP wants to see how good is the fake and/or searches a watchmaker with which he can create the con described

I'm missing another possibilty ?

P.S.: Sorry for the mistrust in mankind
Hadn't thought of the market research aspect. Where better than a Rolex enthusiast forum to understand where improvements need to be made by the unscrupulous. I find it hard to believe that someone with experience owning and handling genuine pieces would not have figured out something was amiss 9 months later. The machining can't be equivalent on either the case, dial or bracelet.
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Old 13 September 2017, 01:35 AM   #26
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Reading this thread I see the following possibilities

1) the kid did it - but if he was so well organized it would have been a lot better to ask around 6500 for being credible and in the tale it wasn't mentioned, that he took the watch back in hand
2) the kid and the watchmaker did it together - we don't know, HOW the watchmaker was choosen
3) the OP wants to see how good is the fake and/or searches a watchmaker with which he can create the con described

I'm missing another possibilty ?

P.S.: Sorry for the mistrust in mankind
4) Colonel Mustard in the library with a candlestick?
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Old 13 September 2017, 01:36 AM   #27
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4) Colonel Mustard in the library with a candlestick?
haha, yes, this was my approach
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Old 13 September 2017, 01:51 AM   #28
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we don't know, HOW the watchmaker was choosen
I'm reading that the OP/buyer chose & is familiar to watchmaker
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Old 13 September 2017, 02:14 AM   #29
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reading this thread i see the following possibilities

1) the kid did it - but if he was so well organized it would have been a lot better to ask around 6500 for being credible and in the tale it wasn't mentioned, that he took the watch back in hand after filing a police report, a detective from orange county sheriff was assigned to the case. It is now classified as grand theft and apparently i am not the first person that this happened to. From the information provided, there is a ring and they send these kids as pawns. This is primarily coming out of los angeles but still an active investigation. I know i am not getting my money back, but i am pressing charges to make sure someone goes to jail for this.
2) the kid and the watchmaker did it together - we don't know, how the watchmaker was choosen i chose the watchmaker, i find it near impossible that they coerced
3) the op wants to see how good is the fake and/or searches a watchmaker with which he can create the con described this i take great offense to, as i mentioned before, i shared my experience in an effort that it may prevent it from happening again. I only posted photos when another member requested them

i'm missing another possibilty ?
.

P.s.: Sorry for the mistrust in mankind
m-
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Old 13 September 2017, 02:24 AM   #30
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Pretty scary stuff
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