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Old 4 January 2021, 06:04 PM   #31
BigAppleBill
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The Spring Drive isn’t for everybody. It’s definitely a bit unconventional for some traditionalists. But I think it’s cool as hell. I also appreciate Grand Seiko’s philosophy and pursuit of excellence in their movements and level of finishing. And of course the smooth sweep of the seconds hand is killer. It’s okay if you don’t happen to “get it”. Different strokes for different folks. Plenty of room on the WIS train.
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Old 4 January 2021, 09:19 PM   #32
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I think my point on looking down was more to say that not everyone realizes that quartz is superior tech. Many people believe price dictates superiority. How can a movement being sold in $100/$1000 watches be better than a movement sold in $10k watches?

I wish GS would add the feature that FP Journe put in their quartz Elegante model. Once the watch is stationary for x period of time, it goes into sleep mode. When you pickup the watch, you can watch it set itself to the correct time automatically. Really cool to see.

my Gshock does this!!! The first time i witnessed it happen i thought it was destroying itself in front of my eyes, the hands just took off spinning but came to a stop at the correct time. For 200 or so bucks its amazing
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Old 5 January 2021, 06:35 AM   #33
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Spring drive is what I do in May with my Honda.
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Old 5 January 2021, 10:42 AM   #34
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Spring Drive is one of the greatest technological feats and innovations in the world of horology that took 20+ years to achieve. If you don't get it, that's okay. It's not for you.

For people who appreciate the art and science of physics, there is an immense delight and satisfaction in seeing the execution of nearly-perfected mechanical construction by the release of kinetic energy stored in a coiled spring (whether manually or automatically wound by rotor), powering the regulatory system of a quartz crystal which is used to control the time-keeping mechanism of a continuously rotating glide wheel. The system requires no battery and is equally "mechanical" as any Swiss alternative (which largely use inferior methods of time-keeping that are less precise, relying on the inherent mechanical property of a hairspring).

The Spring Drive and the watches that house them are also some of the most finely crafted time-pieces constructed by hand by master artisans.
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Old 6 January 2021, 04:11 AM   #35
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The Spring drive system is a hybrid. Its a mechanical watch controlled by an integrated electronic system. It collects and stores its power in the same way as an automatic mechanical watch ie a rotating winder and a mains spring. this stored energy drives a series of gears and wheels same as a mechanical watch. To power the electronic system a magnet on a spinning wheel (glide wheel) in proximity to a coil generates a voltage which powers the control circuitry ( basic principal of electric power generation). The circuitry detects and then regulates the speed of the same rotating wheel via a second coil in proximity to the wheel basically acting as a electromagnetic brake. The reference being a precision quartz oscillator (as per all digital and analogue quartz watches). I believe the system delivers an accuracy of about 10 seconds per month.
Packaging such technology into a watch case is no mean feat, perhaps 40 years ago it would have been considered world beating but today not so much.
Is it a mechanical watch or a quartz watch? I would say neither and prefer to term it as a hybrid however I would suggest its accuracy is primarily due to the quartz controlled electronics which is why I don't believe comparing its accuracy on the basis of its mechanics to a truly mechanical watch is fair. A childs £20 Mickey Mouse analogue quartz watch is probably more accurate than £20,000 Rolex.
Is it revolutionary? Its certainly innovative and ingenious but none of it is rocket science. I also don't believe it took a company the size of Seiko which produces millions of watches per year using in house components including semiconductors, quartz crystals, micro mechanical components etc 20 years to develop. They may have been toying with the concept for years before going into full design mode but 20 years to design and get to market once fully comitted? I doubt it..
So is it all hype? Yes there is some hype associated with the Spring Drive but there is hype associated with most watches. I believe its called marketing. Rolex I would suggest being the worst or best hyped brand depending on your point of view.
And of course there is the other discussion ie Grand Seiko. The argument here is these watches are superior not just due to the Spring Drive they use but the quality of the packaging ie face, hands, case etc and they being superior to the exclusive Swiss brands. I'll let others discuss this as some tend to get rather 'emotive' on the subject.
Finally I would also suggest you will see the Spring Drive system or derivatives of it on cheaper Seiko's within the next few years as other manufacturers come out with their equivalents for a lot less money than a current Grand Seiko.

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Old 7 January 2021, 07:14 AM   #36
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So I guess you won’t be buying one?
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Old 7 January 2021, 12:57 PM   #37
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It seems like a pretty pointless technology – a horological equivalent of a battery-operated abacus or a crossbow that utilizes gunpowder instead of tension as a propellant (if such devices had ever been invented). The Spring Drive is not a fully mechanical movement, so any gain in accuracy compared to traditional mechanical watches is meaningless. And it is far less accurate than a traditional quartz movement. So what exactly is the point? Being different for the sake of being different?
I own a Grand Seiko 'SnowFlake' and I also own and have owned a few Rolexes.

The Spring Drive is a neat piece of technology and is much more accurate than all my Rolexes. It's a watch I enjoy wearing just like my Sky-Dweller.

Frankly, I don't understand your point; by your standards, all mechanical watches are 'pointless' in this century with the accuracy and multi-functionality of smart phones.
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Old 7 January 2021, 01:18 PM   #38
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It seems like a pretty pointless technology – a horological equivalent of a battery-operated abacus or a crossbow that utilizes gunpowder instead of tension as a propellant (if such devices had ever been invented). The Spring Drive is not a fully mechanical movement, so any gain in accuracy compared to traditional mechanical watches is meaningless. And it is far less accurate than a traditional quartz movement. So what exactly is the point? Being different for the sake of being different?
Whats the point of having a wrist watch now days? There is none. I think Seiko likes to push the limits in some ways and the hybrid is one way to do that. Its like a cyborg watch.
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Old 8 January 2021, 03:50 AM   #39
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The Spring drive system is a hybrid. Its a mechanical watch controlled by an integrated electronic system. It collects and stores its power in the same way as an automatic mechanical watch ie a rotating winder and a mains spring. this stored energy drives a series of gears and wheels same as a mechanical watch. To power the electronic system a magnet on a spinning wheel (glide wheel) in proximity to a coil generates a voltage which powers the control circuitry ( basic principal of electric power generation). The circuitry detects and then regulates the speed of the same rotating wheel via a second coil in proximity to the wheel basically acting as a electromagnetic brake. The reference being a precision quartz oscillator (as per all digital and analogue quartz watches). I believe the system delivers an accuracy of about 10 seconds per month.
Packaging such technology into a watch case is no mean feat, perhaps 40 years ago it would have been considered world beating but today not so much.
Is it a mechanical watch or a quartz watch? I would say neither and prefer to term it as a hybrid however I would suggest its accuracy is primarily due to the quartz controlled electronics which is why I don't believe comparing its accuracy on the basis of its mechanics to a truly mechanical watch is fair. A childs £20 Mickey Mouse analogue quartz watch is probably more accurate than £20,000 Rolex.
Is it revolutionary? Its certainly innovative and ingenious but none of it is rocket science. I also don't believe it took a company the size of Seiko which produces millions of watches per year using in house components including semiconductors, quartz crystals, micro mechanical components etc 20 years to develop. They may have been toying with the concept for years before going into full design mode but 20 years to design and get to market once fully comitted? I doubt it..
So is it all hype? Yes there is some hype associated with the Spring Drive but there is hype associated with most watches. I believe its called marketing. Rolex I would suggest being the worst or best hyped brand depending on your point of view.
And of course there is the other discussion ie Grand Seiko. The argument here is these watches are superior not just due to the Spring Drive they use but the quality of the packaging ie face, hands, case etc and they being superior to the exclusive Swiss brands. I'll let others discuss this as some tend to get rather 'emotive' on the subject.
Finally I would also suggest you will see the Spring Drive system or derivatives of it on cheaper Seiko's within the next few years as other manufacturers come out with their equivalents for a lot less money than a current Grand Seiko.

Excellent post! I enjoyed reading it.
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Old 8 January 2021, 06:16 AM   #40
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I own a Grand Seiko 'SnowFlake' and I also own and have owned a few Rolexes.
Same here, the only GS I currently own is the Snowflake. Stunning watch, and that seconds hand sweep is mesmerising.

Amazing though how many on a watch forum seem to think it uses a battery
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Old 11 January 2021, 06:34 PM   #41
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Spring Drive

I like most watch technologies They each have their pros and cons. I don't care much for battery operated watches but I do like Solar powered watches. My Grand Seiko Spring Drive is accurate and smooth and has a 70 hour power reserve and I like the PR indicator.

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Old 13 January 2021, 05:43 AM   #42
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Electronics seem to have a shelf life. The Seiko Kinetics the rechargeable batteries fail over time. Circuits fail and not just in watches. Look at anything electronic around you, they just burn out over time. So I am in the camp of not getting this spring drive. Its a piece of tech, that I just dont know if they will still be running after 50 years.
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Old 13 January 2021, 05:52 AM   #43
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Electronics seem to have a shelf life. The Seiko Kinetics the rechargeable batteries fail over time. Circuits fail and not just in watches. Look at anything electronic around you, they just burn out over time. So I am in the camp of not getting this spring drive. Its a piece of tech, that I just dont know if they will still be running after 50 years.
Very true, but wouldn’t that argument hold for mechanical watches as well? Lubricant runs out, gears get damaged, springs need to be replaced, etc? With the Spring Drive, wouldn’t you just replace the circuit once it fails?
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Old 13 January 2021, 06:06 AM   #44
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I think the Spring drive is a really nice watch, my brother has one and I know he loves the watch.
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Old 13 January 2021, 06:12 AM   #45
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Very true, but wouldn’t that argument hold for mechanical watches as well? Lubricant runs out, gears get damaged, springs need to be replaced, etc? With the Spring Drive, wouldn’t you just replace the circuit once it fails?
Well, for a mechanical watch parts can be manufactured from scratch if needed. For the spring drive the proprietary circuits will only be manufactured for so long they have the fab setup for it. The supply will be limited sometime. Maybe they will make newer shinier circuits in the future, but whatever happens you are in the hands of Seiko.
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Old 13 January 2021, 09:09 AM   #46
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I have a 44-year-old Seiko Quartz (with early Snowflake dial) that is still going strong and running about +2 secs a month. Back in 1976 it cost 49,000 yen, which would also have got you a Gand Seiko mechanical. I think 44 years (and counting) is a pretty good run, and wouldn't be concerned about the operating life of current Spring Drives.
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Old 13 January 2021, 11:32 AM   #47
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I wonder if the hourglass manufacturers had a similar discussion on that fancy new mechanical watch technology?
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Old 13 January 2021, 01:41 PM   #48
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If there is hype around spring drive, I am unaware of it.

But I like this watch a lot and +/- 15 seconds a month works for me. The performance of watches with this technology seemed interesting to me, so I snagged one.

To each their own!
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Old 13 January 2021, 03:24 PM   #49
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If you’re a watch nerd, you love this stuff.

https://youtu.be/jVoRoK1u3Dg
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Old 13 January 2021, 05:08 PM   #50
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My Seiko Astron sits in the cabinet along with four other solar watches and they all pick up the morning sun through the vertical drapes just enough to keep them charged.

I set my watches by the Astron and it has never let me down.

It is a big watch and would not suit all wearers but from a timekeeping point of view and in the absence of any other system in Oz the satellites are the answer.

Do I really need anything else and why did Seiko bother with the GS spring drive range?

Certainly wasn’t accuracy when you read some of the feedback?

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Old 13 January 2021, 07:01 PM   #51
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Hype ?! What hype ? I'm not a flipper, but which one is the best investment ? Should I gift my AD chocolates ?

Spring drive just quietly, cleverly does it's thing, rather well, just as it has for the past few decades.

It's different, it's accurate and it comes cased in a rather well put together watch.
Like it or don't. Plenty of other shiny things out there.

I love mine.
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Old 14 January 2021, 01:27 AM   #52
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Spring Drive vs Escapement

The regulation system in the spring drive replaces the mechanical escapement which is one of the systems of mechanical watches most prone to wear and which moves back and forth, while the spring drive regulator has fewer moving parts, moves in one direction and the moving parts do not touch one another. So the Spring Drive has less wear and tear over time. There is no difference in replacing parts in either system as far as parts availability. If you don't believe it just try sending a 50 year old Rolex or Tudor to the service center and see what they tell you when they send it back without working on it. It is all a matter of whether Seiko supports the movements over the years or not, and the big makers of many fine mechanical watches in many instances do not support their older pieces. Seiko has been better in this area than many other makers in my experience. If you don't like it then don't buy it but so far spring drive is as reliable as any mechanical movement I have owned and the service is less expensive and just as fast as Rolex, Omega or Sinn factory service.
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Old 14 January 2021, 06:42 AM   #53
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I have a spring drive, I purchased it from a Seiko AD in 2008. This was right after Seiko debut the spring drive at Basel. I like it, it’s different, but not so much different. I own several quartz watches, some mechanical Rolexes, Patek and AP RO’s. I don’t denigrate Quartz, I like it, except for the battery and Japan seems to have come along way on life.


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Old 14 January 2021, 12:29 PM   #54
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Some people don't get our hype around mechanical watches.
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Old 19 January 2021, 11:45 PM   #55
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It seems like a pretty pointless technology – a horological equivalent of a battery-operated abacus or a crossbow that utilizes gunpowder instead of tension as a propellant (if such devices had ever been invented). The Spring Drive is not a fully mechanical movement, so any gain in accuracy compared to traditional mechanical watches is meaningless. And it is far less accurate than a traditional quartz movement. So what exactly is the point? Being different for the sake of being different?
I know what you are saying but we should note how SD came about. There is a YouTube video on this (that explains what SD is and how it came about), but basically the proposal for it came in around 1977, yes quartz watches are already around but what is the biggest annoyance about a quartz watch back then? The need to change batteries.

So the Seiko engineer Yoshikazu Akahane wanted to find a way to use mainsprings to power quartz, and thus eliminate the need to change batteries every one or two years. Of course nowadays solar charging is very advanced, quartz watches can go years without ever need to change batteries, thus making this spring drive idea unnecessary.

But in 1977, if a engineer came to you and tell you he has came up with a way to use mainspring to power quartz and eliminate the need for a battery, would you have said it is pointless?
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Old 20 January 2021, 02:16 AM   #56
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Guys buy watches primarily based on how they look and feel on the wrist, with the type of movement important but definitely secondary. Some watches are so beautiful I wouldn't care if they kept time with a paper clip and rubber band inside.

So, with Grand Seiko Spring Drives, my main complaint is that crooked little meter on the dial, and I avoid them solely for that reason. It clutters what is often an otherwise beautiful design. (One exception is the stunning SBGK005 with a similar-looking meter on the dial that is symmetrically balanced at 3 o'clock).

I love some Grand Seikos, and their dials and cases are amazing. The idea of Japanese craftsmanship is very appealing and refreshingly anti-Swiss. But I wish they'd figure out a better design for the Spring Drive meters. Maybe they could somehow put them on the back of movements so they can be seen through the display backs.
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Old 22 January 2021, 08:57 AM   #57
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I am in love with the new 4 season collection and seriously considering one. My only concern is I heard that there are no service centers in the US? Everything has to be sent to Japan? Can someone please confirm?
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Old 22 January 2021, 09:26 AM   #58
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I am in love with the new 4 season collection and seriously considering one. My only concern is I heard that there are no service centers in the US? Everything has to be sent to Japan? Can someone please confirm?
I'm not sure about Spring Drive service centres in the USA, but having the watch sent 'home' to Japan would be kind of cool, IMO. It would only add a couple of days to the service time, and the they would do a fantastic job. Wouldn't add a significant percentage to the cost, either, I imagine.
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Old 22 January 2021, 09:48 AM   #59
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Quartz vs mechanical is all a comparison of apples vs oranges.

I used to be a 'quartz is blasphemous' person, but have since become converted.

I enjoy the quartz Marathon Navigator Pilot watch I got as a beater, and am looking to a future purchase of a GS Spring Drive <as I am a bit of a "tech geek.">
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Old 23 January 2021, 02:52 AM   #60
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I am in love with the new 4 season collection and seriously considering one. My only concern is I heard that there are no service centers in the US? Everything has to be sent to Japan? Can someone please confirm?
When i last asked my AD, most spring drives are serviceable in the us. only certain gmts and chronos need to go back to Japan. zaratsu polishing also needs to be sent back..
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