I don't get the hype around Spring Drive

[G.Montag]

It seems like a pretty pointless technology – a horological equivalent of a battery-operated abacus or a crossbow that utilizes gunpowder instead of tension as a propellant (if such devices had ever been invented). The Spring Drive is not a fully mechanical movement, so any gain in accuracy compared to traditional mechanical watches is meaningless. And it is far less accurate than a traditional quartz movement. So what exactly is the point? Being different for the sake of being different?

[supernova]

Originally Posted by G.Montag

It seems like a pretty pointless technology – a horological equivalent of a battery-operated abacus or a crossbow that utilizes gunpowder instead of tension as a propellant (if such devices had ever been invented). The Spring Drive is not a fully mechanical movement, so any gain in accuracy compared to traditional mechanical watches is meaningless. And it is far less accurate than a traditional quartz movement. So what exactly is the point? Being different for the sake of being different?

For me, a movement that is powered by a mainspring barrel and not a battery is a mechanical movement (maybe not the proper definition though). By being different with incorporating a quartz Crystal to regulate and since it improves the movement’s accuracy, is somewhat innovative. It also provides a perfect gliding seconds hand rather than a beating one as seen in more traditional escapement movements.

Obviously not everyone is going to appreciate it but I suppose that’s the same with every product, Seiko just need enough to make it worth their while, which seems like it does.


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[enjoythemusic]

Am not sure about hype more than it's just another route in achieving a timekeeping mechanism. The tourbillon is said to... And the coax is said to... I enjoy seeing diversity in accomplishing the task.

The Rolex SS SkyD blue here is +7 seconds a month, that'll be fine thank you.

[subtona]

Fancy explanations aside it’s a mechanical movement with a Quartz (electronic?) timer that runs out of batteries every few days if not wound?

No room for a third choice imho. Mechanical or battery. I don’t do battery.

[Slider817]

I’m fine with Spring drive, or Quartz. I think there is room to appreciate both. All mechanical watches nowadays are not needed. Spring Drive is just an interesting innovation, if it doesn’t bring you joy, then find another watch that does.

Personally, I don’t care for Tourbillons, I think they just add cost and complexity, don’t care for the look either. Many people love them for a variety of reasons, this is all just personal opinion.

[joli160]

If you study a bit more about it you’ll see that it is very innovative and a marvel of engineering.
With all the accuracy obsessed people on TRF this most accurate mechanical movement in any production watch is the answer.

The gliding second hand represents the correct passing of time unlike any high beat movement

[alllexandru]

It’s about the hype or about the spring drive as innovation?
Because even a mobile can tell the time but we still wear watches
If we are discussing the hype this is going to be long discussion but every brand/manufacturer is trying or is dreaming to be different and achieve also sales being different, seiko did that, good for them I like diversity

I don’t own any spring drive seiko because I’m not convinced about them vs traditional mechanism, yet


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[77T]

I think if Spring Drive like the early hybrid autos that used a small ICE to charge the batteries that powered electric motors. More complexity than necessary.

Seiko has the equivalent hybrid. More accurate than a traditional escapement but only due to extra bits that have their own MTBF’s.




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[jumpmaster 175]

My only complaint is that alot of the Seikos that utilize it have the power reserve on the dial..which kills it for me...

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by subtona

Fancy explanations aside it’s a mechanical movement with a. Quartz timer that runs out of batteries every few days if not wound?

No room for a third choice imho. Mechanical or battery. I don’t do battery.

Spring drive doesn‘t have a battery!
And it doesn‘t have an electric motor

The power of the mainspring generates electricity which is instantly used to power the Quartz crystal, the IC and the electronic brake

A mechanical watch - if not wound - stops too

It indeed is a third choice and a very clever one!

[vman]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Spring drive doesn‘t have a battery!
And it doesn‘t have an electric motor

The power of the mainspring generates electricity which is instantly used to power the Quartz crystal, the IC and the electronic brake

A mechanical watch - if not wound - stops too

It indeed is a third choice and a very clever one!

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by G.Montag

It seems like a pretty pointless technology – a horological equivalent of a battery-operated abacus or a crossbow that utilizes gunpowder instead of tension as a propellant (if such devices had ever been invented). The Spring Drive is not a fully mechanical movement, so any gain in accuracy compared to traditional mechanical watches is meaningless. And it is far less accurate than a traditional quartz movement. So what exactly is the point? Being different for the sake of being different?

By your logic all mechanical watches are pointless. Let's all toss our Rolexes in the garbage and buy an Apple Watch

[RyanJ]

It is about innovation. Instead of just sitting there making the same mechanical movements over and over again, Seiko is working on inventing something new. Is it perfect? No. It is a huge step forward in watch movement engineering...Yes.

They also just put out a concept movement which is absolutely amazing:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/gr...illon-in-depth

[G.Montag]

Originally Posted by 77T

I think if Spring Drive like the early hybrid autos that used a small ICE to charge the batteries that powered electric motors. More complexity than necessary.

That's a good analogy. And if the Spring Drive was developed before the traditional quartz movement, it would be a respectable innovation. The problem is that it's an interior technology developed decades after its superior counterpart.

[MrBlahBlah]

I love the smooth movement of the seconds hand. To me it’s a mechanical movement that is able to create it’s own electrically regulated timekeeping and that’s pretty damn cool.

I haven’t found the right one yet. Between the power reserve and the relative thickness I’ve been hesitant to pull the trigger.


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[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by G.Montag

That's a good analogy. And if the Spring Drive was developed before the traditional quartz movement, it would be a respectable innovation. The problem is that it's an interior technology developed decades after its superior counterpart.

In your opinion.

In my opinion, the ability to have near quartz accuracy without having to worry about batteries is a step forward. They have already gone from +-15 seconds a month to +-10 seconds a month with the 9RA5.

I will agree that the newest GS quartz calibers are amazing and at a totally different level. I like the hybrid approach as you can decorate a nice mechanical movement and have a see through case back.

Will Spring Drive take over, of course not. People wear mechanical watches for the status and could care less about the accuracy. Most look down on any type of quartz which is actually far superior technologically than any mechanical movement.

Although to be fair, we should not really compare them because they are really different.

[G.Montag]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

Most look down on any type of quartz which is actually far superior technologically than any mechanical movement.

I don't think people look down on quartz. From a strictly utilitarian standpoint, it's a vastly superior technology. Anyone who needs an accurate watch to use as a tool would be foolish to anything but quartz. But most of us don't use watches as tools.

It's like comparing painting to photography. Obviously, photography is a more accurate and efficient way of reproducing the subject matter. But people still like paintings.

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by G.Montag

I don't think people look down on quartz. From a strictly utilitarian standpoint, it's a vastly superior technology. Anyone who needs an accurate watch to use as a tool would be foolish to anything but quartz. But most of us don't use watches as tools.

It's like comparing painting to photography. Obviously, photography is a more accurate and efficient way of reproducing the subject matter. But people still like paintings.

I think my point on looking down was more to say that not everyone realizes that quartz is superior tech. Many people believe price dictates superiority. How can a movement being sold in $100/$1000 watches be better than a movement sold in $10k watches?

I wish GS would add the feature that FP Journe put in their quartz Elegante model. Once the watch is stationary for x period of time, it goes into sleep mode. When you pickup the watch, you can watch it set itself to the correct time automatically. Really cool to see.

[77T]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

Many people believe price dictates superiority. How can a movement being sold in $100/$1000 watches be better than a movement sold in $10k watches?

Many do make that assumption.

The folks at Patek don’t.



Quartz movement -
Caliber E23‑250 S C
North of $60K USD


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[MichaelFlash]

I think spring drive technology was genius. Much of the benefits of quartz with the pleasure of knowing it is not powered by a battery and therefore, IMHO, mechanical. Also the most pleasing sweeping seconds hand in the world. My next acquisition will hopefully be a GS spring drive.

[kunlun]

Here is the real problem with the Spring Drive: Long term serviceability. Seiko is famous for not standing by their products, nor stocking spare parts for out-of-production models.
For an entry-level Grand Seiko spring drive, fine. But for an 80k Grand Seiko or 50k Credor Eichi 2?

Recently, they pledged to stock parts for 30 years. That's an improvement. Buy a plantium Eichi 2 and it's a hockey puck when you're old enough to be a hockey puck yourself. Great. We could criticize Rolex for the same issue, perhaps a modern mechanical movement is not so different in terms of ease of service? I would still wager that even a 32xx movement will be easier to fix in 30 years than a spring drive that has burnt out.

But, there is something about those companies that service any watch made in their history. AP and Breguet are two of these (AP loves to point out that Patek asked AP for help on a grand complication in the Patek museum). If Seiko did this, then their watches would really be the equal of anything Swiss and they won't be until they do.

[thenewrick]

The appeal is its a computer that runs off human movement. The crystals are pretty special. The accuracy is great. The completed smooth second hand is neat.

[Maxy]

Okay, show me another watch which has a smooth second hand movement as GS Spring Drive then we can talk! Creating the best smooth second in any watch is not innovation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9inJqtlauBs

[sgwatchguy]

Me neither.

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Here is the real problem with the Spring Drive: Long term serviceability. Seiko is famous for not standing by their products, nor stocking spare parts for out-of-production models.
For an entry-level Grand Seiko spring drive, fine. But for an 80k Grand Seiko or 50k Credor Eichi 2?

Recently, they pledged to stock parts for 30 years. That's an improvement. Buy a plantium Eichi 2 and it's a hockey puck when you're old enough to be a hockey puck yourself. Great. We could criticize Rolex for the same issue, perhaps a modern mechanical movement is not so different in terms of ease of service? I would still wager that even a 32xx movement will be easier to fix in 30 years than a spring drive that has burnt out.

But, there is something about those companies that service any watch made in their history. AP and Breguet are two of these (AP loves to point out that Patek asked AP for help on a grand complication in the Patek museum). If Seiko did this, then their watches would really be the equal of anything Swiss and they won't be until they do.

I was unaware of this issue with Seiko.

[G.Montag]

Originally Posted by Maxy

Okay, show me another watch which has a smooth second hand movement as GS Spring Drive then we can talk! Creating the best smooth second in any watch is not innovation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9inJqtlauBs

Bulova Precisionist.

As an added bonus, it’s accurate to +/- 10 seconds per year (Spring Drive is +/- 10-15 seconds per month) and costs exponentially less.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by MichaelFlash

I was unaware of this issue with Seiko.

problem is this is speculation, no one really knows if they will stand by it down the road. they said minimum 30 years so people took that to be 30 years period. but yea it does give me pause. i really wanted a rose gold eichi ii, but as it would be a watch i would give to one of my kids i figured a mechanical watch which could theoretically be serviced by any good watchmaker decades later.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Here is the real problem with the Spring Drive: Long term serviceability. Seiko is famous for not standing by their products, nor stocking spare parts for out-of-production models.
For an entry-level Grand Seiko spring drive, fine. But for an 80k Grand Seiko or 50k Credor Eichi 2?

Recently, they pledged to stock parts for 30 years. That's an improvement. Buy a plantium Eichi 2 and it's a hockey puck when you're old enough to be a hockey puck yourself. Great. We could criticize Rolex for the same issue, perhaps a modern mechanical movement is not so different in terms of ease of service? I would still wager that even a 32xx movement will be easier to fix in 30 years than a spring drive that has burnt out.

But, there is something about those companies that service any watch made in their history. AP and Breguet are two of these (AP loves to point out that Patek asked AP for help on a grand complication in the Patek museum). If Seiko did this, then their watches would really be the equal of anything Swiss and they won't be until they do.

People fear mongering by comparing $300 Seiko watches to $50,000 Credors just because both brands are owned by the same company....

Spring drive hasn’t even existed for 30 years and you people are complaining about a lack of long term servicing

If you’re afraid of what may happen 50 years from now best of luck to you...


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[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by subtona

Fancy explanations aside it’s a mechanical movement with a Quartz (electronic?) timer that runs out of batteries every few days if not wound?

No room for a third choice imho. Mechanical or battery. I don’t do battery.

There is no battery or capacitor, the electricity is created by the main spring.
Much as the main spring creates the power for the balance spring.
Since there is no battery, by your definition the spring drive is mechanical.

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by G.Montag

Bulova Precisionist.

As an added bonus, it’s accurate to +/- 10 seconds per year (Spring Drive is +/- 10-15 seconds per month) and costs exponentially less.

Yes I knew that answer but different playing field. One is quartz and one is not. It's like comparing Seiko SKX with Rolex Day date. But are automatic and both in-house movements.