Panerai and Stallone - the truth?

[MeepHead]

I don’t care for panerai.. but I own a pam88. More compliments on that watch than any watch I have.. I own a load of items from AP , Patek, vacheron JLC, Rolex. Etc

I think Stallone likely is trying to help Panerai behind the scenes.

Denzel Washington was asked what is favorite watch is/was.. his answer, “the free one” sums up the scene for most actors.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by MeepHead

Denzel Washington was asked what is favorite watch is/was.. his answer, “the free one” sums up the scene for most actors.

Or the one sponsoring the event / race team / etc. This is where Rolex has been brilliant at sponsoring so many sporting events and global explorers. Don't get me wrong, am glad Rolex does so very much to 'give back' by supporting human achievement.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by 1William

As an early Paneristi and a one time collector with a significant Panerai Collection, I can tell you the article does matter and the brand is dead to me and many others. The misrepresentation of material facts regarding the brands origin and history, by the brand, is not what I support or will tolerate. Panerai has been called out across multiple platforms and has had to back up from many of the stories they have told. Another example is Bremont and when they announced they did an in-house movement only to be outed that it was a modified outside movement I stopped considering a purchase. I know that the advertising game is as much about what you do not say as much as what you do say but facts as significant as what is mentioned in the article and other articles from other credible sources is enough to take me away from the brand and I will never return.

How “early” of a Paneristi are you? I started following the brand in 1997, and I’m not sure what you mean.
The problem with Panerai is that too many people romanticized the folklore. It’s a watch...
It became a badge of honor and people made it seem like they had a museum artifact.....it’s a watch.
I liked Panerai in 1997 for the same reason I like it in 2021, it’s a great design and relatively unique brand. When you see someone wearing a Panerai, you typically have an enthusiast who wants to talk about it. With a Rolex, you typically have an uninterested party who received it as a gift, or just bought it because they made a few bucks and thought Rolex was the best, or a status badge.
You are certainly entitled to your thoughts, I just find it interesting how many people were drawn in by the story, and not the watch.

Next you are going to tell me that Matthew Mcconaughey doesn’t really drive a Lincoln, Howie Long doesn’t wear Skechers, and the guy from Crocodile Dundee doesn’t eat at Outback Steakhouse!

This article was clearly written as a “gotcha” piece, but not sure who was “gotten”. Seems like a lot of wasted time on something that nobody should really care about.

I’m glad all the hype went away and the watches are attainable. Now the instagrammers are more concerned with their position on the list for the new “Pepsi”.


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

When you see someone wearing a Panerai, you typically have an enthusiast who wants to talk about it. With a Rolex, you typically have an uninterested party who received it as a gift, or just bought it because they made a few bucks and thought Rolex was the best, or a status badge.

Excellent point! Rolex are a dime a dozen at the hundreds of luxury audio events I have attended for decades, yet only ONCE out of every 20 or so times was the owner a timepiece enthusiast. Love some of the 'uniquely weird' timepieces the guys from Russia and other parts of the world wear too.

[MeepHead]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Excellent point! Rolex are a dime a dozen at the hundreds of luxury audio events I have attended for decades, yet only ONCE out of every 20 or so times was the owner a timepiece enthusiast. Love some of the 'uniquely weird' timepieces the guys from Russia and other parts of the world wear too.

I always talk to Rolex wearers and have found them to be enthusiastic.. I see one of 3,000 people wearing a watch so we are all in a small club regardless of brand the only time I was treated in a snobby way was when I asked a guy about his breitling
L. He was extremely rude. Otherwise, Rolex wearers and others have been extremely nice and their watch has meant something to them personally.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Excellent point! Rolex are a dime a dozen at the hundreds of luxury audio events I have attended for decades, yet only ONCE out of every 20 or so times was the owner a timepiece enthusiast. Love some of the 'uniquely weird' timepieces the guys from Russia and other parts of the world wear too.

Yep, of all the people who I work with that wear a Rolex (several), exactly zero of them are watch enthusiasts. It’s just an expensive watch.


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by MeepHead

I always talk to Rolex wearers and have found them to be enthusiastic.

oh yes, Rolex enthusiasts are enthusiastic. Yet most seem to not be enthusiasts. It's the IWC, Panerai, Breitling, Bvlgari, Omega, Poljot, Ming, etc guys who (odds are) have taken time to carefully choose what's on their wrist. B&R guys are always fun to chat with too.

Ya know, kinda reminds me of car clubs and personalties.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

oh yes, Rolex enthusiasts are enthusiastic. Yet most seem to not be enthusiasts. It's the IWC, Panerai, Breitling, Bvlgari, Omega, Poljot, Ming, etc guys who (odds are) have taken time to carefully choose what's on their wrist. B&R guys are always fun to chat with too.

Ya know, kinda reminds me of car clubs and personalties.

Enthusiastic about doubling their money on the BLRO they just got from an AD or enthusiastic because they just got a BLRO for 18k from DSW and swear it’ll be 30k in 3 years.

[JonaG]

I always think of The Sopranos episode ‘Luxury Lounge” where Ben Kingsley is offered loads of free stuff and Chris just can’t believe it. I don’t know how or when Stallone first got a Panerai on his wrist but that whole era of tough guy action films put the brand into the public consciousness.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RityQjzUscM

[MeepHead]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

oh yes, Rolex enthusiasts are enthusiastic. Yet most seem to not be enthusiasts. It's the IWC, Panerai, Breitling, Bvlgari, Omega, Poljot, Ming, etc guys who (odds are) have taken time to carefully choose what's on their wrist. B&R guys are always fun to chat with too.

Ya know, kinda reminds me of car clubs and personalties.

I’ve found the opposite, for me. I have never encountered any Rolex wearer that didn’t choose his or her watch. Yes, resale is a factor. Always. But I see many guys wearing sea dwellers, vintage air kings (some with dominos pizza logos), or explorer 36mm... they know when and where they bought the piece and are usually accommodating when I talk. Another fanatical brand is vacheron... I really enjoy speaking with vacheron wearers , the few I’ve seen. I think most people wearing a watch have unique reasons but Rolex people often buy a piece or keep it for very sentimental reasons. I still wear a 1970s air king all the time and I love it because it reminds me of various things from the 1970s and is a very beautiful understated watch. It may also depend on geographical area... where I live, I almost never see people wearing watches.. so, the few that do are likely careful shoppers (Rolex included). I’m not in Miami but would assume there a Rolex might be more a car club deal.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by MeepHead

I’ve found the opposite, for me. I have never encountered any Rolex wearer that didn’t choose his or her watch..

Oh, they bought them for themselves. You know, go buy a Rolex because it's a Rolex crowd. They wouldn't know a Yachtmaster from a Miligauss.

Yes, resale is a factor.

Ahhhh, that's the 'problem' or, shall we say 'difference', between the Rolex collectors you know and the general public who desire the 'right brand' watch i see at hundreds of luxury audio events. Event exhibitors generally do know bit and buy more carefully (B&R, MB&F, Omega, IWC, very interesting European/Russian brands, etc), yet attendees seem to be the 'go out and buy a Rolex because it's a Rolex' type.

Like many here, we see someone wearing... and so we want to strike up a conversation about timpeieces. :)

[MeepHead]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Oh, they bought them for themselves. You know, go buy a Rolex because it's a Rolex crowd. They wouldn't know a Yachtmaster from a Miligauss.



Ahhhh, that's the 'problem' or, shall we say 'difference', between the Rolex collectors you know and the general public who desire the 'right brand' watch i see at hundreds of luxury audio events. Event exhibitors generally do know bit and buy more carefully (B&R, MB&F, Omega, IWC, very interesting European/Russian brands, etc), yet attendees seem to be the 'go out and buy a Rolex because it's a Rolex' type.

Like many here, we see someone wearing... and so we want to strike up a conversation about timpeieces. :)

I strongly doubt anyone buying a Rolex wouldn’t differentiate between a milgauss and ym... at least I hope so. I certainly knew the difference manynwacthes ago.

[dchang81]

not really sure how this is any different than dozens of brands with manufactured histories. talk about hyperbole. laughingstock of the horological world? i'm guessing 99% of people don't know or don't care.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by dchang81

i'm guessing 99% of people don't know or don't care.

Yup.

Even quite a few Paneristi don't seem to care much about movement swaps without any detailed data about the unannounced movement swap with less features. Maybe Panerai is now just a fashion brand?

[Mystro]

I wouldn’t use the term fashion per say. Panerai is a artistic/design brand. Meaning it’s pure and simple lines and shape are instantly recognizable from any other brand. Not even Rolex owns this unique characteristic to this level. Panerai design is like a particular classification of art like a “impressionist movement”.

It’s Italian heritage is why it is so unique. The genius to this design is also incredibly legible/high function while still being luxurious and sophisticated. This no nonsense design calls to a particular type of owner and personality. That’s why Panerai is not a middle of the road, plain Jane safe brand. You either love the Panerai design or hate it.

Where many buy a Rolex for its brand name on the dial the same can be said for people that buy Panerai for its Italian design and case shape.

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by 1William

As an early Paneristi and a one time collector with a significant Panerai Collection, I can tell you the article does matter and the brand is dead to me and many others. The misrepresentation of material facts regarding the brands origin and history, by the brand, is not what I support or will tolerate. Panerai has been called out across multiple platforms and has had to back up from many of the stories they have told. Another example is Bremont and when they announced they did an in-house movement only to be outed that it was a modified outside movement I stopped considering a purchase. I know that the advertising game is as much about what you do not say as much as what you do say but facts as significant as what is mentioned in the article and other articles from other credible sources is enough to take me away from the brand and I will never return.

I first took interest in the brand around 2010. I wasn't an early admirer like you were, but I appreciated the overall aesthetic. I owned a PAM024 and a PAM005. As Panerai began to introduce in house movements, I began to see a change in the collections coupled with ridiculous price increases. This coupled with deliberate choices to add unnecessary text to dials, add too many novel case materials, and pivot to some kind of "lifestyle" brand really made me fall out of love with Panerai.

I never really cared much about the Stallone backstory; if anything, I found it kind of a cringeworthy selling point for the brand. Instead of relying in their interesting case designs and simple dials, Panerai seems to have built their reputation more and more on historical nonsense. It doesn't surprise me that this article completely debunks a myth that I never felt was interesting in the first place, but it does put the cherry on the top of a marketing campaign that is suspect at best.

I've owned around eight Panerai over the past decade and they've all been flipped. Brand image and reputation is still important to me especially when a brand is moving away from the aesthetic that I fell in love with: simple dials in steel cases with minimal fuss. Looking around the brand now, there's only a handful of models that I would say are vestiges of what once was. Couple that with scandals of unfinished movements, questionable movements, snap-on case backs, special editions that get released nearly identically a year later as regular releases, an emphasis on expensive case materials; I think I am not alone in falling out of love.

I am sure others will come along and say that if I don't like a brand, to keep it to myself; but I think, like you are saying, there was SOMETHING about the brand that initially made us fans and that seems to be gone. Panerai can't correct all the fake history it has put out, but it can retool their design language. I often liken the brand to IWC. IWC was a brand that a few years back (prior to the John Mayer letter) was really losing sight of its direction. The course correction they have made has made me a huge fan. Just my two cents. The purpose of this post is not to bash Panerai fans or even the brand itself, because there is something there. I just think their focus is way off.

[pereztroika]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I wouldn’t use the term fashion per say. Panerai is a artistic/design brand. Meaning it’s pure and simple lines and shape are instantly recognizable from any other brand. Not even Rolex owns this unique characteristic to this level. Panerai design is like a particular classification of art like a “impressionist movement”.

It’s Italian heritage is why it is so unique. The genius to this design is also incredibly legible/high function while still being luxurious and sophisticated. This no nonsense design calls to a particular type of owner and personality. That’s why Panerai is not a middle of the road, plain Jane safe brand. You either love the Panerai design or hate it.

Where many buy a Rolex for its brand name on the dial the same can be said for people that buy Panerai for its Italian design and case shape.

You sound like a Panerai marketing unit employee. There is nothing Italian about Panerai. The original watches were designed by Rolex. The sandwich dial with open six and nine is a Stern Frères design. Ok, maybe the crown-protecting device is Italian but that's about it.

https://perezcope.com/2019/08/02/vin...-frankenstein/

https://perezcope.com/2019/05/27/rol...ice-from-1955/


Cheers

Jose

[ganiccus]

always cringe to hear Paneristis talk so romantically about the heritage and history of the brand, then you suddenly realize that the Italian navy was objectively on the wrong side of history. But I guess you will always find people having soft spots for villains like Jesse James or Billy the Kid, even though they murdered and pillaged from law abiding citizens for their own personal gains. If such events happened in today's cancel culture, a watch like that would be considered radioactive waste and been ostracized from society altogether.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by pereztroika

You sound like a Panerai marketing unit employee. There is nothing Italian about Panerai. The original watches were designed by Rolex. The sandwich dial with open six and nine is a Stern Frères design. Ok, maybe the crown-protecting device is Italian but that's about it.

https://perezcope.com/2019/08/02/vin...-frankenstein/

https://perezcope.com/2019/05/27/rol...ice-from-1955/


Cheers

Jose

did someone from panerai s_it in your cereal? you spend an inordinate amount of time writing painfully long articles just to trash them. imho

[CanPam]

There are always more than one way to tell a true story...

"The very first Rolex diving watch ever made, was a Panerai." - Jake Ehrlich

https://www.paneraimagazine.com/?m=1

Originally Posted by pereztroika

You sound like a Panerai marketing unit employee. There is nothing Italian about Panerai. The original watches were designed by Rolex...

Jose

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by ganiccus

always cringe to hear Paneristis talk so romantically about the heritage and history of the brand, then you suddenly realize that the Italian navy was objectively on the wrong side of history. But I guess you will always find people having soft spots for villains like Jesse James or Billy the Kid, even though they murdered and pillaged from law abiding citizens for their own personal gains. If such events happened in today's cancel culture, a watch like that would be considered radioactive waste and been ostracized from society altogether.

If you go down that road you could also throw every German and Italian car into that category as well. For that matter the Egyptian pyramids were built under less than humane conditions. I’m sure the cancel culture would wanna to tear them down and rewrite history as well. Funny thing about history, Germany had a similar cancel culture a few years back but today’s cancel culture wouldn’t know about that because they remove the history books from the schools because the books were too offensive.

[Eyenigma]

Originally Posted by Mystro

I love where Panerai is today and hope the mainstream stays away.

Guessing you mean as a brand and where the collection(s) are going. I suspect the financials on the other hand are in dire straits. Boutique sales have probably dried up considerably and the days of guys running out to get any model they could get their hands on are long gone. I wouldn't be shocked to have it fade into obscurity and relative unknown much like Franck Muller watches did after their day in the spotlight ended.

As crazy as it sounds, the only brands doing phenomenally well right now are those that are pushed by mainstream culture and hip-hop. If I were in charge of marketing, I would be trying to engage influencers and rap culture to get the pieces back in favor. I know that will sound like sacrilege but the truth can hurt.

[brandrea]

The brand either moves you or it doesn't. I could care less about the celebrity controversy

If you look at these watches for what they are, its hard to ignore that they make utterly unique, fantastic timepieces.


20201219_111302.jpg20201129_121754.jpg20180323_101544.jpg

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[Eyenigma]

No doubt they're stunning. But with largely ETA movements. they need to do something to justify the high price point. Otherwise the brand will devolve into another name like Bell&Ross IMHO.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Eyenigma

No doubt they're stunning. But with largely ETA movements. they need to do something to justify the high price point. Otherwise the bran will devolve into another brand like Bell&Ross.

They’ve got 20ish in-house movements to date

[Eyenigma]

Originally Posted by brandrea

They’ve got 20ish in-house movements to date

I'm obviously not up to speed on how many in-house movements many they had. In doing more research, it would seem I've not been following closely enough and they've distanced themselves from ETA stuff as of 2018. I stand corrected.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/watches/a...-buying-guide/

My only Panerai - the 176 is ETA. Still love it regardless.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Eyenigma

I'm obviously not up to speed on how many in-house movements many they had. In doing more research, it would seem I've not been following closely enough and they've distanced themselves from ETA stuff as of 2018. I stand corrected.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/watches/a...-buying-guide/

My only Panerai - the 176 is ETA. Still love it regardless.

... And it’s a great watch you have there

ETA movements don’t deter me in the least.