The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Other (non-Rolex) Watch Topics > Seiko Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25 September 2018, 09:54 PM   #1
TheVTCGuy
2018 RED-SD43 Pledge Member
 
TheVTCGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Paul
Location: San Diego
Watch: SS DJ41
Posts: 14,516
Grand Seiko Spring Drive, should Rolex follow?

I purchased my first Seiko last week, will use it as a “beater” and for some travel, but it was my first exposure to the brand. So, before you ask: “Why are you posting this in the Rolex section?” Let me explain.

I did not purchase a Grand Seiko, but did have the opportunity to see one in person. It was a very nice watch but the most impressive part to me was watching the second hand, and learning the accuracy. I am not going to do a very good job of explaining, but the watch is actually mechanical, in that the movement of your arm powers a spring. And it has quartz used for time reference, but it is not your typical quartz of. Tick-tick-tick at one second intervals. Instead, the second hand practically glides over the dial like the old-fashioned electic ones did, but it is still a mechanical movement. From what I understand the spring that you wind by movement of your arm powers a wheel that produces an electric charge that is used for the quartz time-keeping component, and the movement of the the time keeping hands, but the movement is so fast that it looks like a continious sweep.

OK, now that I have completely screwed up the explanation, Bas or Tools will have to clear it up, but the point is it is still a “mechanical” watch, in that the movement is all mechanical and the electricity produced is only for time reference with the quartz, and the accuracy is suposedly incredible. Seiko says something like one second a day but in reports, it’s more like one a week. (And to be honest, watching that second hand circumnavigate the dial with such a smooth movement was pretty cool). For us automatic enthusiasts I have a couple questions:

A. Do you consider it a TRUE automatic, since the wound spring does produce an electical charge, even if it is not used to power the hands?

B. Should Rolex strive for something similar? The accuracy is better and again, watching that smooth movement of the second hand was impresseive IMHO.

I had heard Rolex applied for a patent years ago for some kind of movement that has the same results, but nothing (that I know of) since. What do you guys think?
__________________


You can't possibly be a Dorkelhead, Paul!!
Whoever heard of a "Dorkelhead Tosser"?
TheVTCGuy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:05 PM   #2
Mystro
"TRF" Member
 
Mystro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 6,082
I doubt Seiko is even on the Rolex radar as being any competition.
__________________
<a href=http://s272.photobucket.com/user/TheMystro1971/media/Time%20pieces/Group%20avitar.jpg.html target=_blank><a href=http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj182/TheMystro1971/Time%20pieces/Group%20avitar.jpg target=_blank>http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...p%20avitar.jpg</a></a>
Mystro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:06 PM   #3
tmo8320
2018 Pledge Member
 
tmo8320's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Washington DC
Watch: 126600 Mark I dial
Posts: 234
Nah,

Rolex does Rolex.
In the same way they don’t do exhibition backs (save for that one Celini) because their movements are unadorned work horses, I don’t think Rolex should pursue such a complication because it would mess with Rolex’s legendary service intervals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tmo8320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:15 PM   #4
challer
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DC
Posts: 152
The Grand Seiko is very impressive. The fit and finish is much better than Rolex. It Seiko has $10 watches and so the word never gets out.
challer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:30 PM   #5
Vinyasa
2018 Pledge Member
 
Vinyasa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Real Name: Steve
Location: Maine
Watch: Explorer II 16570
Posts: 1,183
I purchased a GS last month, but it's the 9S65A movement, not the Spring Drive. I specifically chose this movement because I prefer the traditional horological approach.

I agree that the finish and detail are amazing, and I look forward to wearing it. The movement exceeds COSC specs already and, Spring Drive - while incredibly accurate - doesn't interest me... at least, right now.

Rolex, with the Superlative Chronometer specs of +/- 2 seconds/day, is pretty incredible without Spring Drive technology.
__________________
Milgauss 116400GV | Explorer II 16570 | Sub 14060M | GS SBGR261 | Farer GMT
Vinyasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:30 PM   #6
johneh
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Real Name: John
Location: Toronto
Watch: 214270
Posts: 708
Legendary service intervals? Please, if there was an eye roll emoji I'd use it here.

@TheVTCGuy - the mainspring does in fact power the movement of the hands on a spring drive. The explanation is fairly complicated, but I am sure you will get it. First off, instead of a balance wheel, the SD movement has a glide wheel. When you first start up a SD watch the glide wheel will spin freely, causing the second hand to move way too fast which fires up the electricity required to power a circuit and the quartz oscillator. The quartz oscillator acts as a reference point and tells an electromagnetic brake to slow down the glide wheel. The way a spring drive works is that it's always trying to go fast, and the brake slows it down.

In easy to understand terms: The mainspring powers the hands, which power a tiny generator inside the watch, which controls a little computer that tells the watch to go slower.
__________________
instagram: jaschtag
johneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:32 PM   #7
Peter99
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: London
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by challer View Post
The Grand Seiko is very impressive. The fit and finish is much better than Rolex. It Seiko has $10 watches and so the word never gets out.
Unfortunately it’s still a ‘Seiko’! You know what I mean?
Peter99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:41 PM   #8
Wools
"TRF" Member
 
Wools's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: United Kingdom
Watch: Rolex Sub 116610LN
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter99 View Post
Unfortunately it’s still a ‘Seiko’! You know what I mean?
That shouldn’t be used as a slight, as Seiko & Grand Seiko are an incredible watchmaker & show up some of the Swiss classics.

I do hate how snobbery infects people’s opinions, watches from all walks of life are incredible in 2018 and the complications and technology that power them would stun people from 20 years ago, let alone 50.

I’m sure there’s an R&D team who’ve tried a similar technology at Rolex and favoured against it. As someone else said, do we know how reliable these Spring Drive movements are, over 5-10 years?
Wools is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:41 PM   #9
Jim Smyth
"TRF" Member
 
Jim Smyth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Real Name: Jim Smyth
Location: Florida
Watch: BLRO
Posts: 970
My Grand Seiko gets the majority of my wrist time the last 2 years. Its accuracy blows away my Rolex. Its so accurate I never need to check it any more, just set it and forget it. But then again so is a quartz watch.

I have a new Lum-Tec Quartz inbound as I type. I am not a movement snob. However most here will only be a only mechanical type person. I dont see Rolex moving away from what they are currently doing unless they have to compete some day in the smart watch arena.
Jim Smyth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:51 PM   #10
pickettt
2018 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Watch: Shiny One
Posts: 1,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter99 View Post
Unfortunately it’s still a ‘Seiko’! You know what I mean?
SMH. A tell tale sign as to why people buy what they buy.
pickettt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:59 PM   #11
the_natural
2018 Pledge Member
 
the_natural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Real Name: Edward
Location: USA
Watch: Seiko
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
SMH. A tell tale sign as to why people buy what they buy.
x2
the_natural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 10:59 PM   #12
lenfried29
2018 Pledge Member
 
lenfried29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: USA
Watch: tick-tock
Posts: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by johneh View Post
Legendary service intervals? Please, if there was an eye roll emoji I'd use it here.

@TheVTCGuy - the mainspring does in fact power the movement of the hands on a spring drive. The explanation is fairly complicated, but I am sure you will get it. First off, instead of a balance wheel, the SD movement has a glide wheel. When you first start up a SD watch the glide wheel will spin freely, causing the second hand to move way too fast which fires up the electricity required to power a circuit and the quartz oscillator. The quartz oscillator acts as a reference point and tells an electromagnetic brake to slow down the glide wheel. The way a spring drive works is that it's always trying to go fast, and the brake slows it down.

In easy to understand terms: The mainspring powers the hands, which power a tiny generator inside the watch, which controls a little computer that tells the watch to go slower.
If it has electronics in the watch I'm not consider it. IMO, it defeat a whole purpose of mechanical watch.
lenfried29 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 11:05 PM   #13
GB-man
2018 RED-SD43 Pledge Member
 
GB-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: On the run
Watch: addiction issues
Posts: 25,068
No I don’t think Rolex need follow suit as they are doing just fine and it would seem like they are copying Seiko. One of the cooler aspects of the spring drive is the story of its development over decades. If Rolex just came out with something similar it wouldn’t be as cool.
__________________
Instagram @theuncaught1
"Pleasure delayed is pleasure doubled" - Neil (AK797)
GB-man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 11:12 PM   #14
benlee
2018 Pledge Member
 
benlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Real Name: Ben
Location: SIN & JKT
Watch: Rolex, AP, PP
Posts: 8,142
They are very different but both great brands individually.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram : benlee789
benlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 11:15 PM   #15
Old Expat Beast
Moderator & 2018 DAYTONA Patron
 
Old Expat Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Adam
Location: Hong Kong
Watch: KS & GS
Posts: 19,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
SMH. A tell tale sign as to why people buy what they buy.
x3
__________________
IG: oldexpatbeast
Old Expat Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2018, 11:58 PM   #16
johneh
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Real Name: John
Location: Toronto
Watch: 214270
Posts: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenfried29 View Post
If it has electronics in the watch I'm not consider it. IMO, it defeat a whole purpose of mechanical watch.
Personally I think they're great and I would like to own one. Different strokes for different folks.
__________________
instagram: jaschtag
johneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 12:05 AM   #17
jagwap
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: China
Posts: 571
Agreed on the brand snobbery. Grand Seiko is very underrated, and I like the idea of wearing a timepiece that almost all people don't get. What could be more under the radar than a Seiko with better finishing and handcrafted details than a Rolex. Equally recognisable, but in an opposite direction.

Now if only they would make a piece that sang to me style wise. Many are close, but not quite...
jagwap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 12:10 AM   #18
twitch54
2018 Pledge Member
 
twitch54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: 'Bobby'
Location: SE Pa
Watch: 1888 Appleton Trac
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter99 View Post
Unfortunately it’s still a ‘Seiko’! You know what I mean?
big ego, little.......
twitch54 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 01:52 AM   #19
PJ S
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wools View Post


As someone else said, do we know how reliable these Spring Drive movements are, over 5-10 years?
You’re free to ask me how mine is after 12 years since first being assembled.
It’ll be purely anecdotal, but at least it’ll be a starting point.
PJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 02:35 AM   #20
Green Arrow
"TRF" Member
 
Green Arrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,060
Watch snobbery?

I've been wearing Rolex since 1982. But I just ordered a Seiko SRPC44 ($325 low end mechanical watch with Hardlex crystal), and have been seriously considering adding a Spring Drive Diver in SS to my TT Rolex Bluesy (the model of watch I've owned most since 2004 and own now).

If one doesn't limit themselves to brand snobbery there are amazing watches around in all price levels. When my Seiko comes in I'll have an Isobrite 501 for its T100 tritium capsules which cannot be beat for lume by ANY watch after around 4 hours, a Rolex 166113 which apparently is part of my watch DNA, and a new gold colored, silicone banded Seiko "Turtle" for all kinds of knock around use in and on the water, combined with excellent lumibrite.

Sometimes I think us "Rolex" people need to broaden our horizons. We have great watches, but we aren't the only ones.
Green Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 08:13 AM   #21
HL65
Moderator & 2018 DAYTONA Patron
 
HL65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: Connor MacLeod
Location: Glenfinnan
Watch: Yes
Posts: 58,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
x3
x4
__________________

SPEM SUCCESSUS ALIT

Instagram @thehighlander65
HL65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 09:08 AM   #22
oldman2005
"TRF" Member
 
oldman2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: norcal
Posts: 1,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by HL65 View Post
x4
x5.
oldman2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 09:35 AM   #23
Doc Savage
2018 Pledge Member
 
Doc Savage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Real Name: Bill
Location: Michigan
Posts: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ S View Post
You’re free to ask me how mine is after 12 years since first being assembled.
It’ll be purely anecdotal, but at least it’ll be a starting point.
Ok, cool. How is it doing after 12 years?
Doc Savage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 09:42 AM   #24
subtona
2018 RED-SD43 Pledge Member
 
subtona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: gus
Location: East Coast
Watch: 3 to five
Posts: 20,543
Very much appreciate GS watches but Prefer to keep my watches strictly mechanical.
__________________
subtona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 09:44 AM   #25
PJ S
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 3,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Savage View Post
Ok, cool. How is it doing after 12 years?
Still within ½ a second, and that’s as much as it deviates in total, even over a prolonged period of 2 weeks of constant wearing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by subtona View Post
Very much appreciate GS watches but Prefer to keep my watches strictly mechanical.
Preference based on what though?
Sounds very much like cutting one’s nose off to spite their face.
If you think only a regular style escapement shows off a level of micro-engineering, then read up on what goes into the electronic side of the SD movement – it’s every bit as micro-engineered, if not more so.
PJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 10:30 AM   #26
Ichiran
"TRF" Member
 
Ichiran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Near an AD
Watch: 11 and 12
Posts: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ S View Post
Still within ½ a second, and that’s as much as it deviates in total, even over a prolonged period of 2 weeks of constant wearing.
That's very impressive for a 12-year-old watch. Have you serviced your watch recently?
Ichiran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 11:58 AM   #27
PJ S
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 3,168
^
Nope.
PJ S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 12:05 PM   #28
cajunron
2018 RED-SD43 Pledge Member
 
cajunron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Real Name: Ronnie
Location: Southeastern USA
Watch: Omega Seamaster PO
Posts: 3,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenfried29 View Post
If it has electronics in the watch I'm not consider it. IMO, it defeat a whole purpose of mechanical watch.
Well said. To me, it's almost a quartz watch.
__________________
cajunron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 12:08 PM   #29
superstarmar
2018 RED-SD43 Pledge Member
 
superstarmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Real Name: Mario
Location: In Motion
Watch: my wrist presence
Posts: 5,387
Simple answer no imho...
__________________
superstarmar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26 September 2018, 03:09 PM   #30
tom2517
"TRF" Member
 
tom2517's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 1,049
Don't see why Rolex will follow, they are in a sweet spot and there is really no need branch out to other types of movements, whether its spring drive, or split second perpetual calendar.
tom2517 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


*Banner Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2018, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.