FP Journe Chronometre Souverain Error Dial?

[igibliss]

Hey all! Wondering if anyone has seen the '6' flipped on the CS? All other photos I've seen online for this configuration (Platinum on white gold dial) show the '6' to be upside down. It was brought to my attention from another member... I've reached out to Journe directly for an answer. It sits perfectly flush and is mounted properly.

[uscmatt99]

Wow that's crazy. It was my understanding that the indices are embossed onto the dial and later polished, rather than being applied in the traditional sense. I don't know the exact steps, but I had assumed there was some sort of template used to do this, which would suggest a whole batch was done in that orientation. But I'm just a guy who likes FPJs so who knows?

[WatchEater666]

I that your watch or one you're looking at buying?

[igibliss]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I that your watch or one you're looking at buying?

This is my watch. I listed it for sale however it was brought to my attention by another member so I withdrew the sale to get clarification from Journe before I did anything.

[Ekwity]

I just went to go look at mine even though it’s the guioche dial, the 6 is not like that, best to check with journe see whats the deal. Let us know what they say!

[uscmatt99]

Old Hodinkee article on these dials:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/in...ficial-pricing

[uscmatt99]

Double post, deleted.

[Lo100169]

really strange, all the Journée dials i have seen have the reverse 6, this is the first one that is not like that...

[eiesh]

If / when everything checks out, this might be one of a kind, a piece unique of some sort . Like John Mayer’s crooked Tiffany dial on his PP 5164 or Ben Clymer’s 5170P Tiffany stamp at 12 o’clock instead of 6 o’clock.


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[Jay (Eire)]

That honestly looks like photoshop, but obviously not if it’s your watch.

Never seen this before, and the placement is all wrong too. I’m not even sure how this could happen given how these dials are produced as Matt said above (unless the process has changed and the numbers are now applied).

I have seen other Journe errors, but print errors on printed dials. Nothing like this.

Interested to hear what the Boutique say.

[enjoythemusic]

Look fwd to finding out more. Thanks OP for posting.

[GB-man]

I just don’t understand how that could happen given the dial making process. Nuts. That watch has the devil in it boy!

[igibliss]

Got an email back from Geneva and confirmed that the '6' should not be in the position it is on this watch. They offered to swap it out for the correct dial should I chose. For double confirmation headed over to the boutique this afternoon and spent a couple hours chatting (Happy Birthday to the Boss!) and had the watch inspected. It was confirmed that it is indeed an error and was advised to stay put / keep it the way it is. Very interesting to have discovered this (thanks to the trf member), never would have thought this could happen with the process these dials are made as mentioned above by Matt.

[kdqq]

Nice. Thats a one of a kind Journe. you should print and keep the e-mail as a package.

Going back to Hodinkee's article.... could it all be lies? Dial making process that is...

[eiesh]

Originally Posted by kdqq

Nice. Thats a one of a kind Journe. you should print and keep the e-mail as a package.

Going back to Hodinkee's article.... could it all be lies? Dial making process that is...

OP I’m with kdqq on this one keep it with the email confirmation and possibly the boutique confirmation


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[uscmatt99]

That's really cool! I'd definitely keep it as is rather than doing a dial swap. It's funny because collectors will fret over tiny variations, the "dot over 90" variants of the Speedmaster and the recently enlarged 5:00 and 7:00 minute dots on the 5712 for example. This variation is relatively huge, yet doesn't take anything away from the watch. Only issue is that it's 9:00 4 times per 24-hour period

[GoingPlaces]

You seem to now have a rare piece. No question, keep it!

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by igibliss

Got an email back from Geneva and confirmed that the '6' should not be in the position it is on this watch... Very interesting to have discovered this (thanks to the trf member), never would have thought this could happen with the process these dials are made as mentioned above by Matt.

Thanks for the info, and wow she is indeed a keeper.

[cbalster]

It is astonishing, given small and controlled distribution, that the ADs and boutiques well versed in the brand would not have noticed this upon retailing the piece to an owner. A Rolex Daytona APH error dial is one thing, but this is quite another.

I looked into picking up a FPJ quite a bit last year, and in speaking with several owners, and reading through forums, I came across enough discussions about QC issues and after sales service to steer clear. I found owners lamenting visible imperfections on the dial of the entry level CB, all the way to shortcomings of finishing on their t30 (uneven blotches on the dial, rough finishing on the movement, uneven color and filling in engraved markings)

Perhaps I should regret that as the black dial pieces I had my eyes on (boutique editions on resale) have all disappeared this year and prices seem up across the board. But is it possible all is not as awesome as it seems with FPJ? Are they completely overwhelmed by the market demands exacted on their small watchmaking operation and prone to make these errors? I have read much about finishing details that owners have found lacking across their models, as well as difficult customer service issues when problems arose.

[cascavel]

Isn't the 6 also offset from the minute track, further towards the center than the other numerals?

[igibliss]

Originally Posted by cbalster

It is astonishing, given small and controlled distribution, that the ADs and boutiques well versed in the brand would not have noticed this upon retailing the piece to an owner. A Rolex Daytona APH error dial is one thing, but this is quite another.

I looked into picking up a FPJ quite a bit last year, and in speaking with several owners, and reading through forums, I came across enough discussions about QC issues and after sales service to steer clear. I found owners lamenting visible imperfections on the dial of the entry level CB, all the way to shortcomings of finishing on their t30 (uneven blotches on the dial, rough finishing on the movement, uneven color and filling in engraved markings)

Perhaps I should regret that as the black dial pieces I had my eyes on (boutique editions on resale) have all disappeared this year and prices seem up across the board. But is it possible all is not as awesome as it seems with FPJ? Are they completely overwhelmed by the market demands exacted on their small watchmaking operation and prone to make these errors? I have read much about finishing details that owners have found lacking across their models, as well as difficult customer service issues when problems arose.

I haven't come across or read about many QC issues with FPJ, this is actually my first and it happens to be my watch ... I also haven't searched for these miscues so I have yet to discover the issues that are out there... as far as customer service in my experience with the boutiques in Miami and Los Angeles it has been outstanding and they seem to go the extra mile. It's a different feel at the boutique that you may not get at some of the other big names.

[igibliss]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Isn't the 6 also offset from the minute track, further towards the center than the other numerals?

The '6' is slightly off and not aligned with the railroad track where it's "supposed" to be

[GB-man]

Funky. I would probably still sell it. Ebay auction lol

[kunlun]

Igibliss, are the numerals applied on your watch?
May we see a good quality movement shot? Those are always nice.

The dial was originally embossed.

I have a feeling there is more to the story. Will be interested in how it turns out.

[cbalster]

Part of the charm of FPJ is one watchmaker completes the watch from start to finish. Maybe it's time to rethink that and have someone else put a second set of eyes on things before watches are posted to the retailers with errors and imperfections.

[igibliss]

Originally Posted by kunlun

Igibliss, are the numerals applied on your watch?
May we see a good quality movement shot? Those are always nice.

The dial was originally embossed.

I have a feeling there is more to the story. Will be interested in how it turns out.

These are applied raised white gold numerals.

[Chronocrass]

From what I’ve heard, the brand has recently (2020?) switched to applied numerals on the CS where previously they were stamped into the dial and polished to a mirror finish. This is the only explanation for the possibility of an upside down numeral. A new process that has revealed a watchmaker error that no doubt won’t happen too often with a brand like Journe.

This ones a keeper. Enjoy your “piece unique” bud.

[DoraTheExplorerII]

In twenty years this might be a watch that will fetch a million at Sotheby's or Philips.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Chronocrass

From what I’ve heard, the brand has recently (2020?) switched to applied numerals on the CS where previously they were stamped into the dial and polished to a mirror finish. This is the only explanation for the possibility of an upside down numeral. A new process that has revealed a watchmaker error that no doubt won’t happen too often with a brand like Journe.

This ones a keeper. Enjoy your “piece unique” bud.

Thats pretty lame if true. They really highlighted the process when switching over from the prior dial. Cost cutting something out that you emphasized as a key feature.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by DoraTheExplorerII

In twenty years this might be a watch that will fetch a million at Sotheby's or Philips.

IMHO even this year.

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