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Old 24 September 2020, 07:06 AM   #31
SubKing
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OP sorry about your crack.

I am all for a reliable aftermarket solution once OEM crystals dry up and we need something for our loved vintage watches.

I want to know more about True-Dome.. The crystals aren't cheap, but look appealing. Any dome crystal on a watch looks more appealing than a service crystal, I agree on that 100%.

Is anyone at True-Dome a certified watchmaker or do they just outsource the manufacturing of these crystals? I know on the site it says these are made in the US.

I know we are dealing with very precise measurements here and not as simple as taking a mold from an OEM Dome..

I can't tell you how many times I have seen this same exact crack on AM crystals.. Same style same location. I just feel these D-19's are still in the very early R&D stages and we will all need more time with these true-dome crystals on watches in the field. After enough wear and UV exposure etc, it will be interesting to see if these can stand up against OEM or will they all end up with stress cracks quicker?

They aren't cheap as a AM solution and would be a shame to have to keep swapping them out every year or two because a crack develops..

Until I have no choice but to go AM, I will continue to use factory crystals. I wouldn't go AM just for a different look, it would be out of desperation of needing a crystal. Just my opinion on aftermarket crystals altogether.
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Old 24 September 2020, 07:55 AM   #32
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Is anyone at True-Dome a certified watchmaker or do they just outsource the manufacturing of these crystals?
As far as I know they reverse-engineered genuine Rolex crystals and engaged in extensive trial and error to produce near-as-dammit identical versions of the originals.

It doesn't seem like a job for a watchmaker - they just make crystals. Greg does happen to be a watchmaker, though, according to his TRF signature.

Maybe Greg can chime in again and correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above...
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Old 25 September 2020, 12:33 AM   #33
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As far as I know they reverse-engineered genuine Rolex crystals and engaged in extensive trial and error to produce near-as-dammit identical versions of the originals.

It doesn't seem like a job for a watchmaker - they just make crystals. Greg does happen to be a watchmaker, though, according to his TRF signature.

Maybe Greg can chime in again and correct me if I'm wrong about any of the above...
I just checked out Greg's signature. it says he is a AWCI certified watchmaker.

I know there are many different levels of certification.. i.e. cw21 cmw cmew cewt cc and cmc.

I only asked because if I am buying something that is being hyped as the best aftermarket rolex solution for crystals and paying a premium for it, I would hope that someone at the company has watchmaking experience especially if it is a small outfit like specializing in one thing. I know reverse engineering isn't always a simple task.

To go up against rolex that can afford millions worth of R&D, this is no easy task.

Which is why I said I think this should be the R&D stage for their crystals.

these crystals need to spend time in the world with real active wrist time in natural elements to see if they can stand the test of time.

Rolex plastic crystals start to craze and crack eventually as well, but only after 20+ years of sitting. Any plastic would start to crack overtime if under constant stress by the retaining ring.

On the flip side, if these true dome crystals start to stress crack after a year or two, then it would seem they are behaving like most AM crystals I have tried and have failed.

So hopefully more people will buy and more True-domes will be out in the world in different elements and will report back positive or negative.

I personally hope they stand up to OEM because I think we all know time is against us with rolex. They wont be making plastic crystals forever and we already know they won't service many vintage references any longer from the 50's.. (aside from rolex heritage dep) but who wants to spend that kind of money?

However this thread did concern me with the title and the image of the OP's stress crack which I have seen many times on AM.. I hope this was just a fluke
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Old 25 September 2020, 01:39 AM   #34
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These have been tested by enthusiasts before coming to the market. That said obviously not for the 20 years you claim original ones last. But yes, they have been tested and so far most seem happy.

My experience with AM crystals is that they often fail in just days or weeks. Not after 2 years. Usually due to the tension being added when they are mounted.
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Old 25 September 2020, 05:58 AM   #35
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These have been tested by enthusiasts before coming to the market. That said obviously not for the 20 years you claim original ones last. But yes, they have been tested and so far most seem happy.

My experience with AM crystals is that they often fail in just days or weeks. Not after 2 years. Usually due to the tension being added when they are mounted.
I have seen many original preserved Rolex crystals that are still intact that must be at least 20 years old that they been on the watch.. with that being said I don’t want to change a crystal every 2 years. I think it’s fair to expect at the very least a 4yr life span.

Some AM crystals are pure junk and crack as soon as you press them on.

You can’t put a time frame on when AM crystals fail or start to crack. It just happens,seconds,minutes, weeks,months, a year, what ever. Of course the 6 months to a year AM crystals I have had fail within that time were higher quality Swiss and German parts. Still failed.

These true-dome crystals may have been initially tested, but for not long enough. The real test is having them within the market now on peoples watches. Only time will tell.
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Old 25 September 2020, 06:44 AM   #36
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I have seen many original preserved Rolex crystals that are still intact that must be at least 20 years old that they been on the watch.. with that being said I don’t want to change a crystal every 2 years. I think it’s fair to expect at the very least a 4yr life span.

Some AM crystals are pure junk and crack as soon as you press them on.

You can’t put a time frame on when AM crystals fail or start to crack. It just happens,seconds,minutes, weeks,months, a year, what ever. Of course the 6 months to a year AM crystals I have had fail within that time were higher quality Swiss and German parts. Still failed.

These true-dome crystals may have been initially tested, but for not long enough. The real test is having them within the market now on peoples watches. Only time will tell.
Well.. You have to start somewhere. Right?

There’s lots of them around now and I have friends that have had them since well before launch. If you want to wait 4 years or longer; feel free to do so. I think it is a very good sign we haven’t heard about more issues and in this case the crystal will be examined and hopefully someone will learn something. Original crystals break as well so one issue does not need to mean anything more than just that.

And of course original ones can last a lifetime. We have seen plenty on untoched watches throughout the years. I still wouldn’t expect any plastic crystal from the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s to be water proof. That’s why this is great for our community.

Each to their own though but you can’t expect enthusiasts with a great business idea to test crystals for years before taking it to market. These have been tested and so far, they work perfectly.
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Old 25 September 2020, 06:53 AM   #37
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Well.. You have to start somewhere. Right?

There’s lots of them around now and I have friends that have had them since well before launch. If you want to wait 4 years or longer; feel free to do so. I think it is a very good sign we haven’t heard about more issues and in this case the crystal will be examined and hopefully someone will learn something. Original crystals break as well so one issue does not need to mean anything more than just that.

And of course original ones can last a lifetime. We have seen plenty on untoched watches throughout the years. I still wouldn’t expect any plastic crystal from the 50’s, 60’s or 70’s to be water proof. That’s why this is great for our community.

Each to their own though but you can’t expect enthusiasts with a great business idea to test crystals for years before taking it to market. These have been tested and so far, they work perfectly.
Well clearly you’re putting words in my mouth because I never stated that they should be testing them for years before they launch them. The point I’m making is that time in the market will be the real test. This is their very first crystal model...

I also would like to point out that watch collectors have various levels of tolerance. How many crystals have tiny cracks the collectors would never notice already or might notice and not belong to this forum, or belong but wouldn’t bother to post about it. Also again you’re not giving any sort of timeframe as to how long they actually tested these for before releasing them? Their first post on insta was Jan of this year showing what looks to be a prototype and mold.

Like I said I don’t like putting aftermarket things on my watches, unless I have no other alternative. So I’m sure once the market drys up of OEM crystals, if truedome is still going strong and worked possible bugs out of the design, then my timing should be perfect..

Over the years I have had many NOS domes sealed and I think we all know how old those are. Installed them and never had one crack. Find me an AM crystal manufacture that can accomplish that, you have my money. I will buy arm fulls.
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Old 25 September 2020, 07:03 AM   #38
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Time will tell. To me it looks very promising and I would be happy to put them onto any of my watches. I agree with you that original is preferred and I still have old original superdomes on most of my pieces. They (mine) are however not water proof so I am very careful with my watches.

Maybe it is just me not being native in English but I senced critizism from your side. My bad. Obviously we both look forward to see these last long and help the community to preserve old pieces while looking awesome.
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Old 25 September 2020, 07:08 AM   #39
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Time will tell. To me it looks very promising and I would be happy to put them onto any of my watches. I agree with you that original is preferred and I still have old original superdomes on most of my pieces. They (mine) are however not water proof so I am very careful with my watches.

Maybe it is just me not being native in English but I senced critizism from your side. My bad. Obviously we both look forward to see these last long and help the community to preserve old pieces while looking awesome.
No criticism meant, the title of this thread caught my attention and the photos that OP posted concerned me as I have seen these cracks too many times.

I’m very enthusiastic about truedome if they prove to stand the test of time (4 years at least).

I don’t bother to pressure test any of my vintage because the only water they ever see is from a far.
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Old 25 September 2020, 08:31 AM   #40
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Time will tell. To me it looks very promising and I would be happy to put them onto any of my watches. I agree with you that original is preferred and I still have old original superdomes on most of my pieces. They (mine) are however not water proof so I am very careful with my watches.

Maybe it is just me not being native in English but I senced critizism from your side. My bad. Obviously we both look forward to see these last long and help the community to preserve old pieces while looking awesome.
@Subking isn't being critical, he is just saying that they are unproven so he won't buy them, but he hopes that a lot of other people buy them so they can be thoroughly tested.

Call me an early adopter, but I bought one last month, and it will be going on a watch soon. The original crystal had a huge chunk taken out of it. not salvageable.
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Old 25 September 2020, 09:33 AM   #41
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From what I understand there was a fair amount of R&D, but I think there is still some wood to chop to be on par with Rolex OEM Crystals. I believe it has to do with the manufacturing equipment - I relate it to gravity casting vs pressure casting methods on automotive wheels as something similar. I’m sure this would require more expensive equipment and perhaps only provides marginal gains...but bet it was considered. Still a great option. I’ll stick with OEM till it’s proven.
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Old 25 September 2020, 11:25 PM   #42
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The problem with the NOS Rolex Domed crystals is that currently, about 4 in 10 seem to crack when mounting, due to age, the rehaut and other variables.

I cannot wait for the 1675 Truedome to come out to test drive it; even happy to put money in my pocket to purchase it and show it the 6 out of 7 continents ;).

Kind regards,

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Old 26 September 2020, 12:20 AM   #43
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The problem with the NOS Rolex Domed crystals is that currently, about 4 in 10 seem to crack when mounting, due to age, the rehaut and other variables.

I cannot wait for the 1675 Truedome to come out to test drive it; even happy to put money in my pocket to purchase it and show it the 6 out of 7 continents ;).

Kind regards,

Bert
In all fairness I would say about 7 out of 10 rolex dome crystals on the market are commonly fakes.
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Old 26 September 2020, 12:24 AM   #44
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In all fairness I would say about 7 out of 10 rolex dome crystals on the market are commonly fakes.
At least. Most superdomes available are aftermarket. Finding genuine ones is tough!
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Old 26 September 2020, 12:36 AM   #45
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At least. Most superdomes available are aftermarket. Finding genuine ones is tough!
Very interesting! An authentic superdome crystal should date from which year? The 70's or 80's? Let’s say they are roughly 40 years old, at least, is that correct?

If I look at my old plexiglass lenses from these years, they are all yellowish, probably also quite brittle if one would put stress on them.

If I would be lucky to find a genuine T39 or T19 superdome today, how can I identify them? Are genuine superdomes still uncoloured and not brittle?
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Old 26 September 2020, 12:45 AM   #46
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Very interesting! An authentic superdome crystal should date from which year? The 70's or 80's? Let’s say they are roughly 40 years old, at least, is that correct?

If I look at my old plexiglass lenses from these years, they are all yellowish, probably also quite brittle if one would put stress on them.

If I would be lucky to find a genuine T39 or T19 superdome today, how can I identify them? Are genuine superdomes still uncoloured and not brittle?
60’s and 70’s. If unused they don’t need to look old. But most ”NOS” ones are recently made for sure. The easiest way to identify authentic is to handle enough good ones and learn how they look and feel. Mounted you can also often see that most AM crystals distort the dial differently than an authentic.
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Old 26 September 2020, 12:52 AM   #47
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The easiest way to identify authentic is to handle enough good ones and learn how they look and feel.
That's certainly right but not easy to execute, I even have no sources to buy them, neither AM nor genuine.

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Mounted you can also often see that most AM crystals distort the dial differently than an authentic.
Do you have dial views for a 5513 and/or a 1665, comparing AM with genuine superdomes, to see how the distortion looks like?

I have seen other threads discussing these questions, also about the D19 Truedomes -> "TrueDome T19 (D19) Replacement Crystals"

But I have not seen an "easy" way how to identify a genuine superdome without handling many of them and without installing them onto a watch. If you have 2 in front of you, on a table, can you say which superdome is AM and which is genuine? For example by placing something like a dial or a piece of mm-paper just below the crystal.

It would be great to find such information. I need two superdomed crystals .....
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Old 26 September 2020, 01:15 AM   #48
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The domes in my collection I acquired from a close friend who was a retired watchmaker. Acquired maybe 17 years ago from him.

I use those as a reference to differentiate fake from real by weighing them. Some I can tell just by looking at the dome.

A note to add that in the lot I purchased from my friend, some were in paper envelops and some were in a bulk paper roll from rolex. This was of course at a time when there weren't as many fakes flooding the market like today. It's an absolute mine field for OEM crystals today.
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Old 26 September 2020, 01:38 AM   #49
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A note to add that in the lot I purchased from my friend, some were in paper envelops and some were in a bulk paper roll from rolex. This was of course at a time when there weren't as many fakes flooding the market like today. It's an absolute mine field for OEM crystals today.
I remember when my watchmaker had almost a full roll of T19s left from the 1970s. At one point I think he was considering going into full retirement and would have sold them to me, and I wish I had bought them all. Now he has used them up over the years; the last time I asked him to install one, he said they were all gone.
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Old 26 September 2020, 01:50 AM   #50
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I remember when my watchmaker had almost a full roll of T19s left from the 1970s. At one point I think he was considering going into full retirement and would have sold them to me, and I wish I had bought them all. Now he has used them up over the years; the last time I asked him to install one, he said they were all gone.
if only we had time machines
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Old 26 September 2020, 02:01 AM   #51
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That's certainly right but not easy to execute, I even have no sources to buy them, neither AM nor genuine.


Do you have dial views for a 5513 and/or a 1665, comparing AM with genuine superdomes, to see how the distortion looks like?

I have seen other threads discussing these questions, also about the D19 Truedomes -> "TrueDome T19 (D19) Replacement Crystals"

But I have not seen an "easy" way how to identify a genuine superdome without handling many of them and without installing them onto a watch. If you have 2 in front of you, on a table, can you say which superdome is AM and which is genuine? For example by placing something like a dial or a piece of mm-paper just below the crystal.

It would be great to find such information. I need two superdomed crystals .....
It’s only easy with obvious fakes. I’d be very careful buying superdomes if not from a trusted source. Most are unfortunately fake. Hence why TrueDome is a great thing for collectors as they look correct and seal tight. They are also cheaper than an authentic superdome if you are able to find one.
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Old 26 September 2020, 02:02 AM   #52
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Many thanks to all of you (roh123, SubKing, Dan S)

I have seen such paper rolls with T19's, recently, only on photos, somebody bought that from a retired watchmaker who received them from Rolex, long time ago, he says from the 60's. The watchmaker has officially worked for Rolex (they say). Some photos I received ...







Eight T19's were offered to me, but I could not verify if they are genuine or aftermarket.

The requested price was unbelievable for me .... 1500.- EURO per T19 ! (That's no typo error), without proof of authenticity.

That's the reason why I'm asking how to check them.
I can also find some old looking brownish paper, roll some aftermarket crystals in, and claim they are genuine.
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Old 26 September 2020, 02:15 AM   #53
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Some people sell AM crystals in old wrapping or envelopes. Not a guarantee for authenticity. Of course they could be good as well but why pay 1500€ for uncertainty when you can buy a TrueDome for much less? An original crystal will not raise value on your watch by much. If any.
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Old 26 September 2020, 02:20 AM   #54
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Some people sell AM crystals in old wrapping or envelopes. Not a guarantee for authenticity.
Exactly! I believe the same.

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Of course they could be good as well but why pay 1500€ for uncertainty when you can buy a TrueDome for much less?
Right too! But there might be issues also with the TrueDome, see above; I have seen your posts and others recently under "TrueDome T19 (D19) Replacement Crystals". And, TrueDome doesn't produce T39 until now, which would fit my DRSD.

For me, having little experience with genuine crystals, the Rolex T19 and T39 superdomed crystals are a complicated and dangerous minefield!
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Old 26 September 2020, 02:40 AM   #55
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Hence why TrueDome is a great thing for collectors as they look correct and seal tight. They are also cheaper than an authentic superdome if you are able to find one.
That's the point, if I'm able to find one.
And, as I said, TrueDoem does not produce T39! Hopefully this will change soon.
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Old 26 September 2020, 03:12 AM   #56
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For me, having little experience with genuine crystals, the Rolex T19 and T39 superdomed crystals are a complicated and dangerous minefield!
Indeed it is.
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Old 26 September 2020, 06:04 AM   #57
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That's the point, if I'm able to find one.
And, as I said, TrueDoem does not produce T39! Hopefully this will change soon.
I've been assured by Greg Petronzi D39s are in the oven.

I'm buying some too.
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Old 26 September 2020, 06:08 AM   #58
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An original crystal will not raise value on your watch by much. If any.
Not sure I agree with this. Original crystals, especially domed ones, do indeed add value, and some collectors won't touch (buy) vintage Rolexes that have aftermarket crystals, or even service crystals.
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Old 26 September 2020, 06:10 AM   #59
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I've been assured by Greg Petronzi D39s are in the oven.

I'm buying some too.

Many thanks for the info. How long it will remain in the "oven" until D39s become available. Maybe Greg can comment here?
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Old 26 September 2020, 06:43 AM   #60
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Not sure I agree with this. Original crystals, especially domed ones, do indeed add value, and some collectors won't touch (buy) vintage Rolexes that have aftermarket crystals, or even service crystals.
I know no one that would pass on a great watch due to the crystal being wrong. Interesting to hear. :)

Paying more or less due to a crystal means you are valueing expensive watches down to the single dollar. Some may do but most don’t.

Each to their own though. Most of us still like old stuff so it is always nice to have a nice and correct superdome.
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