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Old 18 May 2023, 09:48 AM   #4171
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I am not sure about the openworked (I imagine that there were still some pieces like an openworked or the panda Daytona that were still allocation only). But from what I hear and what I saw when I went to AP around 2014-2015, the cases were full of ROs and AP was offering them at a discount because they weren't moving.
Thanks.
Just saw nib panda daytona sold for 33.8. seems like theey not selling for 34k new
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Old 18 May 2023, 09:58 AM   #4172
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I had the 15305st on my wrist at Miami boutique around 2015. AP was more available than Rolex back then. Most people wouldn’t buy from the boutique back then because the watches were available for 10-25% off from the vast number of ADs. They flat out didn’t have the brand awareness back then. FHB had a relentless campaign of putting APs in movies and on the wrists of ambassadors and simultaneously going boutique only. It worked.
+ all the rappers who blew up the watch world and put the masses onto it. i still think Future, offset and thug are single handedly responsible for the patek madness and brought it to the point where 15 year old kids are able to spot 5711s in photos these days. then Pop Smoke brought cartier back from the dead and now those are "hard to get" too. don't get me wrong, i'm a huge fan of cartier but no one was wearing the santos before he blew up and now every rapper has one. credit to cartier as well for releasing great watches and taking advantage of it

like you said, it's just a different world now and watches are much more mainstream
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Old 18 May 2023, 11:11 AM   #4173
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+ all the rappers who blew up the watch world and put the masses onto it. i still think Future, offset and thug are single handedly responsible for the patek madness and brought it to the point where 15 year old kids are able to spot 5711s in photos these days. then Pop Smoke brought cartier back from the dead and now those are "hard to get" too. don't get me wrong, i'm a huge fan of cartier but no one was wearing the santos before he blew up and now every rapper has one. credit to cartier as well for releasing great watches and taking advantage of it

like you said, it's just a different world now and watches are much more mainstream
This!

I also think instagram was a game changer. 6-7 years ago it wasn’t the behemoth it is today with luxury influencers.
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Old 18 May 2023, 11:36 AM   #4174
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+ all the rappers who blew up the watch world and put the masses onto it. i still think Future, offset and thug are single handedly responsible for the patek madness and brought it to the point where 15 year old kids are able to spot 5711s in photos these days. then Pop Smoke brought cartier back from the dead and now those are "hard to get" too. don't get me wrong, i'm a huge fan of cartier but no one was wearing the santos before he blew up and now every rapper has one. credit to cartier as well for releasing great watches and taking advantage of it

like you said, it's just a different world now and watches are much more mainstream
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This!

I also think instagram was a game changer. 6-7 years ago it wasn’t the behemoth it is today with luxury influencers.
Agreed and agreed

Being a watch lover was soooooooo much more fun years ago. I was totally fine with buying from my A D as the “worst” decision I could make. Buy a watch and lose money as soon as I walked out the door. But the hype, flex, social media, investment train hit and it all went to hell in a hand basket
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Old 18 May 2023, 12:51 PM   #4175
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Chris, Nick, and Sabina.
wow serious? i thought chris was doing well?
nick as well
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Old 18 May 2023, 01:20 PM   #4176
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new release tt gmt now at $25200
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Old 18 May 2023, 01:23 PM   #4177
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naked of choc dial daytona at 34k. better buy than panda
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Old 18 May 2023, 02:13 PM   #4178
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wow serious? i thought chris was doing well?
nick as well
Yeah, I thought so too. I guess the video with him getting presented a watch for his sales achievements was just for show.
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Old 18 May 2023, 03:49 PM   #4179
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dd rg olive dial at $45900 2018 pre owned
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Old 18 May 2023, 04:02 PM   #4180
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+ all the rappers who blew up the watch world and put the masses onto it. i still think Future, offset and thug are single handedly responsible for the patek madness and brought it to the point where 15 year old kids are able to spot 5711s in photos these days. then Pop Smoke brought cartier back from the dead and now those are "hard to get" too. don't get me wrong, i'm a huge fan of cartier but no one was wearing the santos before he blew up and now every rapper has one. credit to cartier as well for releasing great watches and taking advantage of it

like you said, it's just a different world now and watches are much more mainstream
I'm blissfully unaware of who this is. The last thing is do is take lifestyle advice from a rapper. These guys are totally clueless.
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Old 18 May 2023, 04:06 PM   #4181
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Yeah, I thought so too. I guess the video with him getting presented a watch for his sales achievements was just for show.
yeap, what a joke.
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Old 18 May 2023, 10:13 PM   #4182
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I'm blissfully unaware of who this is. The last thing is do is take lifestyle advice from a rapper. These guys are totally clueless.

Correct but you must recognize hip hop is one of if not the most popular mainstream music today and there are half a dozen rappers that can create 9 figure brands just by entering the fold.

If tomorrow we wake up and Drake and lil baby make a hit song about wearing FP Journe the prices on all their watches on the secondary market would probably double in 6-12 months. That’s hilarious but it’s also a reality.
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Old 18 May 2023, 10:25 PM   #4183
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It all started with Jay Z. But now it’s every rapper referring to AP/Rolex/Patek in every other song
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Old 18 May 2023, 10:48 PM   #4184
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I'm blissfully unaware of who this is. The last thing is do is take lifestyle advice from a rapper. These guys are totally clueless.
i never said anything about lifestyle advice lol, the point was constantly referencing watch brands in the most popular songs makes people aware of the brands. and it would've taken you less time to google him than make this post
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Old 19 May 2023, 12:00 AM   #4185
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i never said anything about lifestyle advice lol, the point was constantly referencing watch brands in the most popular songs makes people aware of the brands. and it would've taken you less time to google him than make this post
Wearing watches is a lifestyle choice get a grip


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Old 19 May 2023, 12:19 AM   #4186
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I never said it hasn't happened at all this year. All I'm saying is that backdoor deals with Rolex ADs are much less prevalent today than in the beginning of the hype.

It's just much more risky for Rolex ADs today due to increased scrutinization by HQ. You can see how many ADs lost their ORJ status in the past two years alone.

Uh, that’s patently incorrect.
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Old 19 May 2023, 02:08 AM   #4187
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I never said it hasn't happened at all this year. All I'm saying is that backdoor deals with Rolex ADs are much less prevalent today than in the beginning of the hype.

It's just much more risky for Rolex ADs today due to increased scrutinization by HQ. You can see how many ADs lost their ORJ status in the past two years alone.
Based on what data? Anecdotally, there is a steady stream of fully stickered Rolex’s on moda and chrono 24 (I have seen no slow down of these showing up). Back door dealing is just as prevalent as ever. The shrinking of the number of ADs has less to do with a crackdown and more to do with Rolex moving toward a boutique model.
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Old 19 May 2023, 03:03 AM   #4188
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There has been a noticeable move down in BLRO prices the past few weeks.
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Old 19 May 2023, 03:19 AM   #4189
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Wearing watches is a lifestyle choice get a grip


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lol it is

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Old 19 May 2023, 03:25 AM   #4190
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Based on what data? Anecdotally, there is a steady stream of fully stickered Rolex’s on moda and chrono 24 (I have seen no slow down of these showing up). Back door dealing is just as prevalent as ever. The shrinking of the number of ADs has less to do with a crackdown and more to do with Rolex moving toward a boutique model.
Backdooring is a common business practice across all industries. Its expected at this point...

Im curious, they make counterfeit papers/cards. I'm sure there's a dark market for OEM stickers so watches are being sold with the "new" stickered premiums. One of the reasons I have not went grey. I just don't trust them enough...
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Old 19 May 2023, 04:52 AM   #4191
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Backdooring is a common business practice across all industries. Its expected at this point...

Im curious, they make counterfeit papers/cards. I'm sure there's a dark market for OEM stickers so watches are being sold with the "new" stickered premiums. One of the reasons I have not went grey. I just don't trust them enough...
If you go through a legit well vetted grey you should be fine. Then again, I don't care about stickers so I never really paid attention to them.
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Old 19 May 2023, 05:41 AM   #4192
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There has been a noticeable move down in BLRO prices the past few weeks.

Has there? I'm only watching asking prices from TS and Moda but prices on these dont seem to move much. Would love to be proven wrong!
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Old 19 May 2023, 05:55 AM   #4193
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Based on what data? Anecdotally, there is a steady stream of fully stickered Rolex’s on moda and chrono 24 (I have seen no slow down of these showing up). Back door dealing is just as prevalent as ever. The shrinking of the number of ADs has less to do with a crackdown and more to do with Rolex moving toward a boutique model.
Back door dealing will continue until it ceases to be beneficial for either party.
Both are in it for money and if an AD knows for certain his buyer is going to flip it stands to reason the AD would want a thank you as encouragement to continue the relationship.
Otherwise there really isn't anything in it for him to risk his dealership especially if he has a waiting list for most watches he gets to sell...
It's nothing personal it's purely business.

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Old 19 May 2023, 08:57 AM   #4194
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wow serious? i thought chris was doing well?
nick as well
I've been wondering where Nick has been. Haven't seen him in the last few videos.
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Old 19 May 2023, 09:13 AM   #4195
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BNIB 2 days old panda daytona 34k. Before the DC back in march it was only 32k. not a big hike after DC.
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Old 19 May 2023, 09:36 AM   #4196
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I’d say the opposite in that AP has way more control than Rolex does on who the watch goes to. Rolex has a huge network of ADs they can’t police. AP controls everything from production to who they sell to because they are corp owned boutique only.
This is false in the United States let alone globally. Very few of the us boutiques are corporate owned.
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Old 19 May 2023, 09:43 AM   #4197
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This is false in the United States let alone globally. Very few of the us boutiques are corporate owned.
Is it? I am not aware (I know a few are joint ventures) but regardless, how many AP boutiques are there globally vs. how many ADs/boutiques for Rolex globally? Way easier to try and police 15-20 boutiques vs hundreds or thousands.

Both brands have back door dealing going on I just don't think AP is on the same scale of Rolex given the smaller production output and how they're structured. But to reiterate, it still certainly goes on w/ AP.
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Old 19 May 2023, 01:29 PM   #4198
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Has there? I'm only watching asking prices from TS and Moda but prices on these dont seem to move much. Would love to be proven wrong!
Yes, these were 17-18 at the bottom and started creeping back up to around 20K. They’re now solidly under 20K again with most asks in the 18-19 range.
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Old 19 May 2023, 04:34 PM   #4199
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Based on what data? Anecdotally, there is a steady stream of fully stickered Rolex’s on moda and chrono 24 (I have seen no slow down of these showing up). Back door dealing is just as prevalent as ever. The shrinking of the number of ADs has less to do with a crackdown and more to do with Rolex moving toward a boutique model.
I've been spending quite a lot of time with a few secondary market dealers. I came to know a certain #RWB member and he said he used to get bundle deals and a lot of fully stickered watches from Rolex ADs before the pandemic. But when the hype peaked, Rolex started cracking down on ADs. He claimed Rolex started buying back some fully stickered pieces from the grey market, tracing them back to the shady AD, then forcing that AD to buy back the piece at the grey market cost. If the AD refuses to buy back that piece, then they simply get their contract terminated. If the AD complies, then that AD gets a warning. If Rolex starts to find more fully stickered Rolexes from the same AD, then that AD gets their ORJ relationship terminated.

The same #RWB dealer said Rolex also started sending out secret shoppers as a form of auditing. The secret shoppers won't catch the ADs red-handed, of course, but they will at least be able to flag any non-standard or shady behavior.

Now, I'm not saying that #RWB guy is the real deal. But given all those recent developments, it makes sense that ADs will be much more careful now. Remember, ADs invest millions of dollars just to become an ORJ. And every few years, Rolex forces ADs to spend even more just for store "touch ups". And if an AD loses their status, a lot of foot traffic is lost as well because a significant percentage of jewelry traffic nowadays is influenced simply by being a Rolex dealer.

The #RWB dealer said most of the fully stickered Rolexes have been the same ones circulating and trading through the grey market many times. Not a lot those pieces actually end up with a customer who truly wants to remove the stickers with the intention of wearing the watch daily.

Whether everything I've typed at this point is true or not, that's up to you to decide. But the logic makes sense to me and after doing some more digging myself, I've also heard similar stories from other independent sources.
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Old 19 May 2023, 04:45 PM   #4200
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Backdooring is a common business practice across all industries. Its expected at this point...

Im curious, they make counterfeit papers/cards. I'm sure there's a dark market for OEM stickers so watches are being sold with the "new" stickered premiums. One of the reasons I have not went grey. I just don't trust them enough...
It's not even in the "dark" market. They are getting sold in the other Moda group. I've personally seen some dealers selling the following in bulk:
  • old-style coffin cases
  • cardboard "coffin" cases
  • blank warranty cards (both old and new styles)
  • case and bracelet protective stickers (fakes but claimed to be indistinguishable from the real thing)
  • watch pouches from RSC
  • Brand new boxes of all sizes
  • genuine Rolex gloves, same ones worn by ADs
  • Rolex watch trays

One of those Moda dealers claimed they got them from ADs who recently got their contract terminated.
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