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Old 19 May 2019, 01:58 PM   #1
jakeb30
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"Investment" Pams

Hello all! I am looking forward to purchasing my first Panerai later this year. I am looking hard at a used 335 (or highly discounted new one). I am a fan of the if you like it buy it attitude, but am also a little worried about potential resale value.

I was wondering which, if any pams, do you consider to be models that have a chance to go up in value over say the next 20+ years? I know the bronzo and some others might fit this mold. Also if you could add why you think so?

I just figured that if I can afford one that might go up in value, and like it too, it might be a better purchase.

thanks!
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Old 19 May 2019, 05:28 PM   #2
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None. Bought wisely, you may not lose much. Buy one because you love it.
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Old 20 May 2019, 01:29 AM   #3
nick c
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If you think investment point. Donít buy panerai or any other watches.
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Old 20 May 2019, 03:09 AM   #4
erik asher
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Your parameter is 20 years? Every single PAM will be worth more in twenty years than the piece you purchased it for. Just inflation alone will dictate that point.
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Old 20 May 2019, 03:24 AM   #5
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when it comes to cars, watches or pretty much any luxury item, Buy what you like and assume it'll depreciate. It's not real estate ;)
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Old 20 May 2019, 04:57 AM   #6
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Your parameter is 20 years? Every single PAM will be worth more in twenty years than the piece you purchased it for. Just inflation alone will dictate that point.
Well thatís based on nominal values... guaranteed most Panerais will depreciate in real value

OP - donít purchase panerai or any watch as an ďinvestmentĒ... these threads are ridiculous... why not go check out the med weed pot stock forums if you want a hot investment tip from internet people
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Old 20 May 2019, 05:03 AM   #7
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I wouldn’t buy watches as investment purposes just for sole enjoyment
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Old 20 May 2019, 06:11 AM   #8
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Take your time, research it, make sure you pick the right one. Watch the price for a while if it concerns you.

In my unscientific observation, prices seem to have levelled off and some have crept up a little as the oversupply on the secondary market has been mopped up, but it took quite a few years.

The days of losing your shirt on a Panerai seem to be over (unless you buy retail). Buy carefully and buy what you like and you'll be fine. But don't expect any return on your "investment"
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Old 20 May 2019, 06:37 AM   #9
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To far from April first.
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Old 20 May 2019, 08:17 AM   #10
synequano
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Just buy what you like at a good price...probably pam 21,267,607 might keep their value a bit better due to low production number

Even nowadays the price of bronzo is uncertain as pam 968 isnít limited thus driving the resale of the other bronzos down
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Old 20 May 2019, 11:41 AM   #11
erik asher
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Well thatís based on nominal values... guaranteed most Panerais will depreciate in real value

OP - donít purchase panerai or any watch as an ďinvestmentĒ... these threads are ridiculous... why not go check out the med weed pot stock forums if you want a hot investment tip from internet people
Itís not ridiculous at all...do your research...a substantial majority of PAMs that were bout in the late 90ís through 2005 are now selling used for more than their retail price at the time. Maybe only a few of the more expensive (over 15k) PAMs from that time period are still hovering around their original retail price.

So, in 20 years, it should be expected that most PAMs will appreciate and not depreciate in value. Yes, in the short term, most PAMs depreciate. But in the long term, most appreciate. This is undeniableósimple facts based on the original retail prices and current selling prices.
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Old 20 May 2019, 01:20 PM   #12
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Stay away from Panerai if your looking for a safe purchase.
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Old 21 May 2019, 02:32 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by jakeb30 View Post
Hello all! I am looking forward to purchasing my first Panerai later this year. I am looking hard at a used 335 (or highly discounted new one). I am a fan of the if you like it buy it attitude, but am also a little worried about potential resale value.

I was wondering which, if any pams, do you consider to be models that have a chance to go up in value over say the next 20+ years? I know the bronzo and some others might fit this mold. Also if you could add why you think so?

I just figured that if I can afford one that might go up in value, and like it too, it might be a better purchase.

thanks!
335 is a lovely PAM; I have one, and it probably gets the most "wear-time" of the bunch, given its resistance to scratches. It is a bit unconventional (black ceramic case, automatic, dial design) as far as PAMs go, so because of that, the value retention would be hard to predict. Certainly if you buy it at retail, you're going to lose a bit - but that's the case on many PAMs (and many watches in general, save for the ones that you'll never see on display...). And you already alluded to not buying at retail or new.

I like the 127 (prices have dropped since the frothy heights of the brand) and the 172. Importance and rarity are the two things they say to look for in collecting things. "Importance" (127 being the first 1950s case produced by modern era Panerai; 172 = Panerai's foray into experimentation with rarer materials for case production) and "rarity" (1950 units for 127; 300 units for 172). And of course they both have the old-school decorated Unitas movements that Panerai won't release any longer.

Ultimately, get the watch that you'll derive the most utility out of. While we'd be fooling ourselves to say that price paid and resale aren't important considerations, at the end of the day, the enjoyment of the experience is what should matter most. And if you're not using the watch at all, this would detract from that experience.

335 - you'll use it without worrying about scratches; it pairs well with a multitude of straps. has GMT function, so you can travel with it.. and its understated nature isn't as "in your face" as a polished / steel PAM. And you'll probably never run into anyone else wearing the same watch, if that matters much to you.
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Old 21 May 2019, 04:25 AM   #14
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I get the impression that Panerais are loosing their mystique- is it fair to say that? Hence not much of an investment op


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Old 21 May 2019, 04:50 AM   #15
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None. Bought wisely, you may not lose much. Buy one because you love it.
This.


Buy a Panerai because you love it.

Buy it used if you want to save a little.

If you want an investment, don't buy a Panerai.
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Old 22 May 2019, 09:17 AM   #16
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Itís not ridiculous at all...do your research...a substantial majority of PAMs that were bout in the late 90ís through 2005 are now selling used for more than their retail price at the time. Maybe only a few of the more expensive (over 15k) PAMs from that time period are still hovering around their original retail price.

So, in 20 years, it should be expected that most PAMs will appreciate and not depreciate in value. Yes, in the short term, most PAMs depreciate. But in the long term, most appreciate. This is undeniableósimple facts based on the original retail prices and current selling prices.
In nominal terms? Iíd like to see something more than anecdotal data/references that suggest Ďmostí appreciate, in real terms, particularly when factoring in any sort of modest discount rate
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Old 22 May 2019, 09:30 AM   #17
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I get the impression that Panerais are loosing their mystique- is it fair to say that? Hence not much of an investment op


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I Started collecting Panerai in 2002 and still love the watches and brand and own several pieces. But IMO they got ahead of their skis with all the iterations they introduced in the last ~5 years trying to broaden their appeal. What made Panerai special for me (and many others) was their large, bold, chunky and unique design. IMO they diluted their brand with the intro of the slimmer, smaller and more "dainty" pieces. There's no need for a super slim 42mm luminor, it's supposed to be big, fat and unapologetic!
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Old 23 May 2019, 12:26 PM   #18
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Thanks for all of the input. Panerai is easily my favorite brand that "speaks to me". I always knew rolex was an expensive watch growing up but I honestly just don't like many of them.

I will always buy the watch I like the most but figured I might as well get it at the best price. I don't ever plan to sell a luxury watch that I buy but you never know. So if it happened that I could get a Pam that I like that even had a chance of being a collectable or going up in value that's a win win. Im not looking to make a fortune, just thought that if the option was there Id take it. (or at least bring close to what I gave for it) Which I understand that a quality preowned watch probably fits this.
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Old 23 May 2019, 12:42 PM   #19
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127 would be a good bet. They’ve dropped a lot in price but will likely increase again. Panerai is soft at the moment but, like all consumer cycles, the brand will re-emerge. I have the 671 Bronzo with which I’m +10k so far if I sold today. My 127 cost me 9k USD, at one point it was at avg 18k, they’re about 12k now. I just bought an OPX movement 111 in pristine condition for $3200 from someone looking to offload, avg price is 4.5-6k. If you’re looking at speculation OP, now would be a good time to buy unworn grey dealer Panerai. Go for low volume LE pieces that were not annual LE’s but rather just one production run. A sleeper I believe will be the 687 (which I also have).
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Old 23 May 2019, 12:56 PM   #20
inadeje
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Thanks for all of the input. Panerai is easily my favorite brand that "speaks to me". I always knew rolex was an expensive watch growing up but I honestly just don't like many of them.

I will always buy the watch I like the most but figured I might as well get it at the best price. I don't ever plan to sell a luxury watch that I buy but you never know. So if it happened that I could get a Pam that I like that even had a chance of being a collectable or going up in value that's a win win. Im not looking to make a fortune, just thought that if the option was there Id take it. (or at least bring close to what I gave for it) Which I understand that a quality preowned watch probably fits this.
See above advice from a fellow Panerai fan
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Old 24 May 2019, 08:29 AM   #21
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None are investment pieces. Even the 127 which seems to have gone up the most (relative to its initial price) has sort of reached a ceiling. The limited editions even going back 7-8 years now haven't really gone up in price. Panerai has really saturated the market with too many similar releases. Some of the bronze divers which were commanding decent prices are going to take a hit now that Panerai is releasing other bronze models. Panerai will put out an interesting Radiomir 1940 with a blue dial, then a year later release another with a blue dial that is almost identical. They do this over and over.

The lesson with Panerai is to find good examples of what you like about the brand and get them at a discount.
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Old 25 May 2019, 03:03 PM   #22
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None are investment pieces. Even the 127 which seems to have gone up the most (relative to its initial price) has sort of reached a ceiling. The limited editions even going back 7-8 years now haven't really gone up in price. Panerai has really saturated the market with too many similar releases. Some of the bronze divers which were commanding decent prices are going to take a hit now that Panerai is releasing other bronze models. Panerai will put out an interesting Radiomir 1940 with a blue dial, then a year later release another with a blue dial that is almost identical. They do this over and over.

The lesson with Panerai is to find good examples of what you like about the brand and get them at a discount.
I agree. I sold my Tuttonero and 352 just before the market nose dived. I then sold my 526 Regatta. Thankfully I didnít lose any money because all were bought way below retail. In fact I enjoyed all three for quite some time and, on two I made a few dollars. The third I broke even. Iíve only kept the 4 because I believe they will always be pure Panerai and, as LE models with no modern variant, are well chosen, I think Iíll be ok. No plans to sell anyway. The 111 with OPX is my beater and, oddly enough, its a very accomplished piece, despite being pretty low cost. The 687 is quite a bizarre watch but, every time I think of selling it, I wear it a day or two and fall back in love.
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Old 27 May 2019, 01:18 AM   #23
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A luxury purchase should be viewed as a sunk cost IMO. Instead of focusing on future value (which nobody knows) focus on finding the best deal for the watch you want (something you can actually control).
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Old 27 May 2019, 03:47 AM   #24
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Buy it because you love it.

There are some good prices on previously $$$$ Panerai because alotta Paneristis have exited the brand.

My reason for stating this is the greatly diminished activity on the Panerai forums.

Also Long tenured OP Boutique managers have told me that the Paneristi client is pretty much gone. I was was the only familiar face he had seen from the "glory days" in quite some time. The sales are to fresh customers looking for something different. Might be good for the brand (maybe), but that is NOT good for the classic stuff that was propped up by the Paneristi buyer...

So in other words if you have any sensitivity to losing money / zero value appreciation, walk away from Panerai. Walk away.
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Old 27 May 2019, 11:59 PM   #25
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I agree. I sold my Tuttonero and 352 just before the market nose dived. I then sold my 526 Regatta. Thankfully I didnít lose any money because all were bought way below retail. In fact I enjoyed all three for quite some time and, on two I made a few dollars. The third I broke even. Iíve only kept the 4 because I believe they will always be pure Panerai and, as LE models with no modern variant, are well chosen, I think Iíll be ok. No plans to sell anyway. The 111 with OPX is my beater and, oddly enough, its a very accomplished piece, despite being pretty low cost. The 687 is quite a bizarre watch but, every time I think of selling it, I wear it a day or two and fall back in love.
You did well for sure. The good thing about the "classic" models like the 111, 112, 000, 005 is that you can get them a grand or so off MSRP, but you can also sell them for roughly the same price you got them. I don't ever see my 372 sinking below 5k because it's basically a 47mm 1950s version of the models mentioned above. If I move it, I likely won't lose anything.

If you buy an LE Panerai, with the way their history as been recently, expect something similar to come out as regular production a year or so later tanking whatever exclusive value your LE has. That doesn't mean you shouldn't spend money on Panerai you like. I certainly don't think any watch should be an investment. The wise move though is to buy what you like and do it second hand if you want to save money.
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Old 28 May 2019, 12:48 AM   #26
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So tired of these posts. Invest in the stock market. Buy watches you like.
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Old 28 May 2019, 12:59 AM   #27
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So tired of these posts. Invest in the stock market. Buy watches you like.
As well as I am tired of people complaining about them.

Completely agree itís silly to consider a watch an investment but easier to ignore what one doesnít like to read.
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Old 28 May 2019, 06:20 AM   #28
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so tired of these posts. Invest in the stock market. Buy watches you like.
+1
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Old 28 May 2019, 06:37 AM   #29
inadeje
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Buy it because you love it.

There are some good prices on previously $$$$ Panerai because alotta Paneristis have exited the brand.

My reason for stating this is the greatly diminished activity on the Panerai forums.

Also Long tenured OP Boutique managers have told me that the Paneristi client is pretty much gone. I was was the only familiar face he had seen from the "glory days" in quite some time. The sales are to fresh customers looking for something different. Might be good for the brand (maybe), but that is NOT good for the classic stuff that was propped up by the Paneristi buyer...

So in other words if you have any sensitivity to losing money / zero value appreciation, walk away from Panerai. Walk away.
ďMy reason for stating this is the greatly diminished activity on the Panerai forumsĒ

I was shocked to visit Paneristi a few month back to see the devastation of that, what could be considered ďtheĒ Panerai forum. Totally astonishing, the exodus has been almost complete abandonment.
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Old 28 May 2019, 06:42 AM   #30
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As well as I am tired of people complaining about them.
Totally agree. There's nothing wrong imo with these kinds of threads (this one has actually gotten some traction) but there is something wrong with people complaining about them in an apparent effort to stifle the creation and development of these kinds of threads. If you don't like them then simply move on. Why denigrate others who do like these kinds of threads?
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