Are Panerai and Rolex in the same bracket?

[leopardprey]

If the Patek 5004 used to have a Patek in house movement or a superb engineered movement inside, then was discontinued, and then reproduced with a inexpensive movement inside, then YES.

If they developed the watch, and used a high quality movement from another manufactuer that they modified, then NO.

I never said Panerais are fakes, what I said was that many Panerais are reproductions of originals, but now use Cheaper Unitas movement.

Panerais like the 242 and 190 that were unique in their design and Panerai originals that use high end superb movements from JLC are not cheap recreations, but Panerai originals and shows Panerai being smart and using a dang good movement. (I also like the Vacheron OVerseas with it's modified JLC 889 Caliber movement!)

[leopardprey]

Yep, Fifty Fathoms. Now there is a watch that you do not want to look at TR! Or you will sell your Subs and Panerais both to buy! LOL The watch the Sub was designed after. And the new FF with it's 45mm size, super lumination, sapphire bezel, in house 5 day auto movement and anti-magnetic case, and sail cloth strap is a very impressive watch. Plus, the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms probably has the most Military History out of any Dive watch out there, plus many Oceanic expeditions under it's belt!

But, again, I say be content with your 2 subs, your Rolex your Father gave you (the one I would never ever sell) and your 2 Panerais. More than you ever could need. Look at how fortunate you are to just have those. Most people in your country make less in a year than what one of those watches cost. Now go out and get those watches scratched up and dinged up on some adventures. All the Panerais and Rolex watches you have well stand up well to abuse, and look even better with some scrathes! The watches are made for diving, trekking, and exploring!

[mfer]

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Yep, Fifty Fathoms. Now there is a watch that you do not want to look at TR! Or you will sell your Subs and Panerais both to buy! LOL The watch the Sub was designed after. And the new FF with it's 45mm size, super lumination, sapphire bezel, in house 5 day auto movement and anti-magnetic case, and sail cloth strap is a very impressive watch. Plus, the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms probably has the most Military History out of any Dive watch out there, plus many Oceanic expeditions under it's belt!

But, again, I say be content with your 2 subs, your Rolex your Father gave you (the one I would never ever sell) and your 2 Panerais. More than you ever could need. Look at how fortunate you are to just have those. Most people in your country make less in a year than what one of those watches cost. Now go out and get those watches scratched up and dinged up on some adventures. All the Panerais and Rolex watches you have well stand up well to abuse, and look even better with some scrathes! The watches are made for diving, trekking, and exploring!

All I can say is listen to Chad!!!!
on this one buddy!

[respect]

In the same bracket? Depends upon how wide the brackets are. Some people put Rolex in the highest bracket possible, if that is the case then Panerai is not in the same bracket. Some people say that Patek, AP, and others are above rolex in a bracket alone, with Rolex in the second highest tier. I personally would say that Rolex is not in the highest tier, but they are above the Panerai, Breitling, and Omega bracket. It's as if Rolex is in a class all by itself because it bridges the gap of being of the highest quality and still making 1,000,000 watches a year.

[brainbizz]

In the same bracket? Depends upon how wide the brackets are. Some people put Rolex in the highest bracket possible, if that is the case then Panerai is not in the same bracket. Some people say that Patek, AP, and others are above rolex in a bracket alone, with Rolex in the second highest tier. I personally would say that Rolex is not in the highest tier, but they are above the Panerai, Breitling, and Omega bracket. It's as if Rolex is in a class all by itself because it bridges the gap of being of the highest quality and still making 1,000,000 watches a year.

Too broad a statement. I consider certain PAMs to be on par with Patek and AP. The only issue I have is the use of some of the cheaper movements. The 233, 270, 289 etc are some of my favorites compared to any brand and I would be hard pressed to find a watch I like better than Ferrari 024 period. I am not knocking rolex its just appears they are making watches for the masses which they do better than anyone else. Panerai, Patek, AP produce much fewer watches where the demand is higher than production.

[GBJIV]

Originally Posted by dman

Too right! Not even close to as available.

In the same class is up to the buyer....for me Rolex isn't close, YMMV!

Agreed. Many PAMs are very difficult to get - IMO - much more so than Rolex. To be honest, I have been able to obtain a few of the Rolex (Grails) in a fraction of the time it would take to get even one of the "grail" PAM's - also, the PAM's cost more.

[argee1977]

As i said, until Panerai make their in-house movements more available through the range they're just not doing the whole package like Rolex, this year i went out to get a 40mm Chrono, i looked at the 310 and it just wasn't what i expect, 5 years ago they were putting out 40mm chronos with the El Primero movement, display caseback, 3 sub dials and date, now they've got twin sub dials, no titanium casing, no date and a valjoux movement.

Panerai really have to start working on continuous improvement, not thinking they can sell a watch just because it looks like a panerai, it has to be the entire package otherwise panerai might lose a lot of its customers.

[hutchman]

Originally Posted by argee1977

As i said, until Panerai make their in-house movements more available through the range they're just not doing the whole package like Rolex, this year i went out to get a 40mm Chrono, i looked at the 310 and it just wasn't what i expect, 5 years ago they were putting out 40mm chronos with the El Primero movement, display caseback, 3 sub dials and date, now they've got twin sub dials, no titanium casing, no date and a valjoux movement.

Panerai really have to start working on continuous improvement, not thinking they can sell a watch just because it looks like a panerai, it has to be the entire package otherwise panerai might lose a lot of its customers.

Panerai still makes several 3 dial chronos with date, 250, 251, and the 236.

The whole package like Rolex? chrono with date? titanium? display back? Please tell me which Rolex has these features.

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by hutchman

Panerai still makes several 3 dial chronos with date, 250, 251, and the 236.

The whole package like Rolex? chrono with date? titanium? display back? Please tell me which Rolex has these features.

I'm on about Panerai, not really too bothered about Rolex as they have one chrono and for me it's flawed without the date, but it has been improved on every update, the movement has been created and tweaked, the bracelet has been altered and other areas have been given minor tweaks, but Panerai have for me just brought out a 40mm chrono because people asked them too, and it really is a half hearted attempt, if Panerai want to be up there with Rolex they need continuous improvement and innovation, you don't stop and you certainly don't go backwards.

[hutchman]

Originally Posted by argee1977

I'm on about Panerai, not really too bothered about Rolex as they have one chrono and for me it's flawed without the date, but it has been improved on every update, the movement has been created and tweaked, the bracelet has been altered and other areas have been given minor tweaks, but Panerai have for me just brought out a 40mm chrono because people asked them too, and it really is a half hearted attempt, if Panerai want to be up there with Rolex they need continuous improvement and innovation, you don't stop and you certainly don't go backwards.

Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to say! Panerai has intruduced 4 completely new in house movements in the last three years including an 8 day, 10 day and a tourbillon. How is that going backwards?

[Trurolexer]

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Yep, Fifty Fathoms. Now there is a watch that you do not want to look at TR! Or you will sell your Subs and Panerais both to buy! LOL The watch the Sub was designed after. And the new FF with it's 45mm size, super lumination, sapphire bezel, in house 5 day auto movement and anti-magnetic case, and sail cloth strap is a very impressive watch. Plus, the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms probably has the most Military History out of any Dive watch out there, plus many Oceanic expeditions under it's belt!

But, again, I say be content with your 2 subs, your Rolex your Father gave you (the one I would never ever sell) and your 2 Panerais. More than you ever could need. Look at how fortunate you are to just have those. Most people in your country make less in a year than what one of those watches cost. Now go out and get those watches scratched up and dinged up on some adventures. All the Panerais and Rolex watches you have well stand up well to abuse, and look even better with some scrathes! The watches are made for diving, trekking, and exploring!

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by hutchman

Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to say! Panerai has intruduced 4 completely new in house movements in the last three years including an 8 day, 10 day and a tourbillon. How is that going backwards?

Yeah, but the prices of those in-house movement watches are up there with some of the serious big hitters, the majority of the Panerai range still uses ETA movements and are priced the same or higher than the Rolex model they're up against.

Now i love Panerai, but i do think they need to start moving those movements into watches through the range, otherwise they're going to turn into another Hublot.

[brainbizz]

[QUOTE=argee1977;825869]I'm on about Panerai, not really too bothered about Rolex as they have one chrono and for me it's flawed without the date, but it has been improved on every update, the movement has been created and tweaked, the bracelet has been altered and other areas have been given minor tweaks, but Panerai have for me just brought out a 40mm chrono because people asked them too, and it really is a half hearted attempt, if Panerai want to be up there with Rolex they need continuous improvement and innovation, you don't stop and you certainly don't go backwards.

I fail to follow your argument and conclusion. Panerai is continually improving their watches by providing new movements such as minerva movements and providing new in house movements. Just because they do not offer a 40mm chronograph at this time does not translate to going backwards. They are actually proceding forward and producing more expensive watches with better movements. They simply do not have the range and volume as Rolex. They have made several 40mm chronos in the past such as AMG chrono which are appealing. To me rolex has actually been lacking in new inovative products. Hopefully next year will be different.

[bodybump]

Ummmmmm no comment

[MAINEZX10]

Ever since I bought my first Pannnie I always wanted other models. I have a 140 & a 104 and wear them more than my Rollies. The only other Rolex I will buy is the MG GV but for now I'm trying to save up for a 270, fell in love with it as soon as I seen it. I probably will never get to buy one but that is the next watch I buy besides the GV

[argee1977]

Originally Posted by MAINEZX10

Ever since I bought my first Pannnie I always wanted other models. I have a 140 & a 104 and wear them more than my Rollies. The only other Rolex I will buy is the MG GV but for now I'm trying to save up for a 270, fell in love with it as soon as I seen it. I probably will never get to buy one but that is the next watch I buy besides the GV

Had one on my wrist yesterday, lovely watch but just not right on my wrist, the 1950s case didn't suit me at all, i was going to get a 233 but it's back to the drawing board.

[davidwatts]

That one-eared monster? In the same league as Rolex? Traitors, the lot of you.

In crude football terms Rolex and Panerai are fighting it out at the top of the Championship League.

The Premier league teams are PP, JLC, VC, AP, GP...

I'd try and buy a premiership team over a Pam.

To carry on the analogy - Spurs = Timex ... Sorry Martin, couldn't resist

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Tony-GB

Hi Christopher

To me, 40,000 isn't exclusive. Ennebi produce 200 - 300 per year. I would say that is exclusive. Bonati states he want to be as good as Rolex, so you can bet your fillings if he could sell a million a year he would.

Just to be clear: I'm not knocking Panerai at all. I had one but shifted it & got another Rolex. It wasn't for me for a couple of reasons that Paneristi's openly acknowledge. But I like to keep this invented Panerai vs Rolex battle into context.

There seems to be an antagonistic thought process on a Panerai site that loves to knock Rolex, mostly based on the sales figures. But when these people are reminded that Rolex is the Mother & Father of Panerai, strangely nobody replies...

Even the little lever that keeps the crown in place is questionable by watch officianado's. Ennebi uses that same process but without the lever...

The main bugbear that comes across with Panerai fans is that Rolex aren't exclusive & they seem to be seeking a little exclusivity.

In every watch range, some models are more exclusive than others and Rolex are experts at creating this situation.
Panerai don't make many of these. IMO one of the engineering feats of 2008 and well worth looking at through a glass caseback.

[964RS]

I think they are up there with Rolex now on the quality and pure simplicity of class but they fall behind on the pure history and vintage demand. Their 'new' marketplace is quite big now but the vintage rolex marketplace is simply enormous worldwide.

[clock]

To me, Rolex makes a better watch. From the metal used to the movement, Rolex wins out.

I have both brands and still much prefer Rolex.

[leopardprey]

Directioneng, I agree. If I had a extra $100,000 laying around I would have one of theose on my wrist. A very nice Panerai.

[Trurolexer]

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Directioneng, I agree. If I had a extra $100,000 laying around I would have one of theose on my wrist. A very nice Panerai.

Even now I love Panerai, for tourbillon better I go for Berguet, right?
Or I bought a Daytona, and safe the rest in my account...

[Trurolexer]

P.S : I see someone wearing this tourbillon model when I was dinner with my wife in Fish & Co. Restourant Jakarta. An Arabian Gentleman. I believe this Guy is very very RICH!!!

[Nigel Tufnel]

Originally Posted by Jimbits76

I'm still dubious paying all that money for something with a retuned generic movement...

Ditto. I confess I don't know a lot about them, but to they seem to me to be a high-end case maker, taking advantage of the large case market. I do know there were/are model(s) that sported Rolex movements, but I don't what those models were. Clearly, I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to Pams, so I am wide open to being enlightened.

[Trurolexer]

rolex good, panerai nice.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by directioneng

In every watch range, some models are more exclusive than others and Rolex are experts at creating this situation.
Panerai don't make many of these. IMO one of the engineering feats of 2008 and well worth looking at through a glass caseback.

Wow, Eddie, what a beautiful watch!

[mfer]

Originally Posted by directioneng

In every watch range, some models are more exclusive than others and Rolex are experts at creating this situation.
Panerai don't make many of these. IMO one of the engineering feats of 2008 and well worth looking at through a glass caseback.

I had the radiomir tourbillon on my wrist Tuesday night!

*sigh*

[harleybones]

I think rolex classy I think panerai big. some panerai's are cheesy and some are nice but all rolexes are nice. both watches hold their resale value and are at the top right now for the price point.everyone knows what a rolex is some people know what a panerai is at least in the states

[MAC4130]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

Six years ago I met Panerai's CEO Angelo Bonati at the re-opening of the brand's original boutique in Florence. Panerai was just on the rise back then, fast gaining popularity. I asked him where he'd like to see his brand positioned, and he said "right up at the top, along with Rolex''.

I'm wondering how many people think he's achieved his goal? Is Panerai in the same league as Rolex? How would one define "league''?

(Personally, I don't really fancy Panerai watches but there's no denying the brand has enjoyed phenomenal success in the past 5-6 years and is hugely popular).

Panerai is a great Brand that has boomed with non paid celebrities as sponsors! They look and feel great they are indeed very limited quantities out there but.... yes but.... Rolex is on a league of its own! Their facilities are just years ahead of ANY swiss watch manufacture, their movements are simple refined, sturdy, reliable and Extremely acurate!!!! Something all other companies strugle with. Panerai would love to be up there with Rolex but so would a lot of the other top watch manufacturers. Rolex is often criticized by purists because of the masive ammount of watches Rolex makes in a year (over a million, that is more than all other top siwiss manufacturers together) but one thing they over see is that Rolex makes all those watches to the exact same level of superb finish, reliability and accuracy! That is no small feat! If Vacheron, Patek, Piaget had the oppcortunity to manufature in the way Rolex does would they do it?!?!?! yes they would! This would allow them to build more of their splendid watches at a better cost with the same quality! But the investment required would be astronomic!!!! and their brand would probably loose exclusivness, but test those superexclusive watches vs a Rolex and you will find Rolex rate results (accuracy, finish, reliability, etc) as good or better than any of them.

[Trurolexer]

I LOVE Both.