Do female tennis players really deserve equal pay?

[Star Ferry]

...

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by hambone1983

this is just false. Women do not make less money than men in apples to apples comparisons. They make less money than men on average because they choose to. In the US 2/3s of doctors are men, 2/3s of lawyers are men, 89% of engineers are men, 76% in STEM professions overall are men, 92% of software engineers are men, and on and on.

Women make less because nurses make less than doctors, paralegals make less than attorneys and teachers make less than engineers.

Hmm

Then why is it that I hear over and over again that generally in the same professions not different professions that women typically make less than men?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by amg55

If they will only ban the painful grunts with each shot, equal pay it is.

Have you ever heard of a guy named Raffa?

[Demosthene]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Hmm

Then why is it that I hear over and over again that generally in the same professions not different professions that women typically make less than men?

Because they do!

Within Australia for example women now make up 47.9% of the lawyers in the legal profession yet earn 35.6% less than men do.

Most countries have bodies that monitor gender pay gaps as well as the OECD and World Bank. There's certainly no shortage of data available.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

Because they do!

Within Australia for example women now make up 47.9% of the lawyers in the legal profession yet earn 35.6% less than men do.

Most countries have bodies that monitor gender pay gaps as well as the OECD and World Bank. There's certainly no shortage of data available.

Yeah, that’s kind of what I thought.

[Tony64]

Anyone know, or care to guess, if male exotic dancers get equal compensation to their female counterparts?

[amg55]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Have you ever heard of a guy named Raffa?

I don't watch Rafa play, period. He's too painful to watch with his pre-serve routine. It's excruciating!

[greggsiam]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

Because they do!

Within Australia for example women now make up 47.9% of the lawyers in the legal profession yet earn 35.6% less than men do.

Most countries have bodies that monitor gender pay gaps as well as the OECD and World Bank. There's certainly no shortage of data available.

No they don't, and it has been refuted many times over. The supposed 23 cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time. It does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week. When everything is factored in, there is about a 6 cent gap which is attributed to poor negotiating skills when raises come up or during the hiring process.

It's a business and should be paid appropriately to income generated. It's funny how you don't see anyone complaining that male models make 75% less than their female counterparts.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by hambone1983

this is just false. Women do not make less money than men in apples to apples comparisons. They make less money than men on average because they choose to. In the US 2/3s of doctors are men, 2/3s of lawyers are men, 89% of engineers are men, 76% in STEM professions overall are men, 92% of software engineers are men, and on and on.

Women make less because nurses make less than doctors, paralegals make less than attorneys and teachers make less than engineers.

you are not making an apples to apples comparison.

Women engineers make less than men engineers. Women doctors make less than men doctors. That is apples to apples. All the statistics show this. You are right that there is generally differences in professional career paths and there are more men in construction and more women in teaching but I'm not talking about that.

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/engine...0k-gender-gap/

My wife is a female engineering project manager. She makes less than some of her male subordinates not to mention her peers. She still does very well but its true. Plus she has degrees in petroleum engineering, chemical engineering, and an MBA so education level isn't a factor. The problem is if she changes jobs she has to disclose previous salary information and then will make more than before but still less than a man in the same position. Its a cycle, which is why some places specifically do not allow prospective employers to ask "how much did you make at your previous job". If you make less now then you will make less in your next job, and the next.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by greggsiam

No they don't, and it has been refuted many times over. The supposed 23 cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time. It does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week. When everything is factored in, there is about a 6 cent gap which is attributed to poor negotiating skills when raises come up.

6% pay gap due to gender is still wrong and should be fixed. I agree that the "77 cents" thing is false. The people who parrot it are either being intentionally dishonest or don't understand that correlation doesn't imply causation

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by crc45

Professional sports are not games, they are businesses with a product to sell. If people are willing to pay more money for your product then you have the enjoyment of putting more money in your pocket.

/\

This

[Demosthene]

Originally Posted by greggsiam

No they don't, and it has been refuted many times over. The supposed 23 cent gender pay gap is simply the difference between the average earnings of all men and women working full-time. It does not account for differences in occupations, positions, education, job tenure or hours worked per week. When everything is factored in, there is about a 6 cent gap which is attributed to poor negotiating skills when raises come up or during the hiring process.

An opinion piece by Christina Hoff Sommers, one of the senior members of conservative think tank doesn't exactly count as a non biased source...
As I said previously it's common and immensely measurable based on vast amounts of ABS data from around 4 million employees in Australia.

There's even a nice government agency that collates and graphs the dataset's by industry!
http://data.wgea.gov.au/

The net result is the ABS and WGEA data both show a gender pay gap favouring full-time working men over full-time working women in every industry and occupational category in Australia.

Originally Posted by greggsiam

It's a business and should be paid appropriately to income generated. It's funny how you don't see anyone complaining that male models make 75% less than their female counterparts.

Oh man you've just dashed my hopes of being a male model!
I guess I'll just settle for higher pay in nearly any other industry I arbitrarily choose.

[cruise_bone]

Tennis is unique, I think, in that the Majors are all contested at the same time and at the same Venue.
Therefore, sharing advertising revenue makes perfect sense.

Now compare Golf - men's us open vs women's us open are on different dates at different venues, with separate ticket sales and Ad revenue. Doesn't it make sense that your earnings should be based on the revenue that your specific event is making?

[APRolexguy]

Originally Posted by Tony64

Anyone know, or care to guess, if male exotic dancers get equal compensation to their female counterparts?

They don't get one dollar bills thrown at them do they?

[Honza]

As a tennis player, I would not mind if women get a higher pay, however, when I visit various tournaments, in most cases, men gets more spectators compare to women. The more spectators tournament gets, the more potential revenue each tournament can have.

By the way, if anyone of you come to Hawaii, let me know and we can go play tennis;)

[hasema]

Originally Posted by Honza

As a tennis player, I would not mind if women get a higher pay, however, when I visit various tournaments, in most cases, men gets more spectators compare to women. The more spectators tournament gets, the more potential revenue each tournament can have.

By the way, if anyone of you come to Hawaii, let me know and we can go play tennis;)

Where do you live? I'll be in Maui for a week. Will be staying next to the tennis club in Wailea. i'm a average 4.5 player.

I was at the US Open this year and watching at Arthur Ashe when the women come on 75% of the stadium leaves to roam the grounds. There is more draw for men's matches. A friend made a point about women tend to buy more tennis apparel and accessories. I believe the prize money shouldn't be equal unless they are drawing equal crowds and tv rights. At the same time you can justify that womens apparel endorsements may surpass the gents.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by amg55

I don't watch Rafa play, period. He's too painful to watch with his pre-serve routine. It's excruciating!

You have to agree that he got his routine down. Just saw him playing at the Laver Cup in Prague. Was a nice match.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by hasema

Where do you live? I'll be in Maui for a week. Will be staying next to the tennis club in Wailea. i'm a average 4.5 player.

I was at the US Open this year and watching at Arthur Ashe when the women come on 75% of the stadium leaves to roam the grounds. There is more draw for men's matches. A friend made a point about women tend to buy more tennis apparel and accessories. I believe the prize money shouldn't be equal unless they are drawing equal crowds and tv rights. At the same time you can justify that womens apparel endorsements may surpass the gents.

I live in Honolulu. Wailea has nice tennis facility. If I am not mistaken USA played Fed Cup there last year.

4.5 is a great level! Maybe one day we can hit if you come back to Oahu;)

[rolex75216]

Answering as a women I say yes.

Answering as a man I say no.

[jackjack305]

They should but the reality is they don't generate as much money as mens sports

[Relentless]

Just do us all a favor and do away with the crummy sport altogether.

LOL

Sports in general are a waste of time in my opinion. YMMV.

R

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by cruise_bone

Tennis is unique, I think, in that the Majors are all contested at the same time and at the same Venue.
Therefore, sharing advertising revenue makes perfect sense.

I've been to AO, night session the men play then it's women. Half the stands seem to disappear after the men finish...

How would you appropriate the ad rev? Tickets sold? TV ads sold? Eyeballs?

Now compare Golf - men's us open vs women's us open are on different dates at different venues, with separate ticket sales and Ad revenue. Doesn't it make sense that your earnings should be based on the revenue that your specific event is making?

meh rather watch a Masters on TV. familiar with some of the downunder courses but rather not be spectating there

Interesting development in ladies PGA is recent success with a few younger Asian players. They're gaining a strong following back in Asia, perhaps more/wider marketing opportunities than before there time.

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Just do us all a favor and do away with the crummy sport altogether.

LOL

Sports in general are a waste of time in my opinion. YMMV.

R

It keeps the riffraff rabble from revolting.

Did you not realise?

[cruise_bone]

Originally Posted by tamiya

I've been to AO, night session the men play then it's women. Half the stands seem to disappear after the men finish...

How would you appropriate the ad rev? Tickets sold? TV ads sold? Eyeballs?




meh rather watch a Masters on TV. familiar with some of the downunder courses but rather not be spectating there

Interesting development in ladies PGA is recent success with a few younger Asian players. They're gaining a strong following back in Asia, perhaps more/wider marketing opportunities than before there time.

1) You allocate the Ad Revenue equally. That's why the events are held jointly.

2) Seeing The Masters in person is a highlight for any true golf fan. I'm not sure I would love seeing the US Open in person but going The Masters is a whole different experience from any other tournament that I have ever been too.

[InfinityNexus]

The economist has run a few articles on this topic; here is one of the more recent ones
https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap...08/daily-chart
In a nutshell, the famous 25% discrepancy is accredited to an average of salaries across all jobs that men and women have, regardless of company, position and function. If you take a proper look at the salaries in like for like positions, the discrepancy almost disappears (in fact, if you consider that women take time off after having a child, the salaries almost match up entirely)

[BristolCavendish]

One sport where women will NEVER earn the same amount as men is in professional basketball. While the women often play more 'purer' game from the standpoint of conventional techniques and style, I am assuming that 90% of all basketball viewers would much rather watch the NBA over WNBA and men's NCAA basketball over women's collegiate any given day.

On the other hand, women's basketball often displays a better sense of teamwork and commitment to a common goal.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by APRolexguy

sensitive topic alert! what do you guys think?

would be interesting to hear what the women on TRF think about this as well?

article here https://kijanawaasi.com/female-tenni...ers-equal-pay/

"Imagine your co-worker, who does half the work and delivers less than half the numbers you deliver crying that they want your pay"

The topic is a little misleading. Yes, everyone deserves "equal pay" regardless of gender. Perhaps it should read "an equal pay rate".

[breitlings]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Just do us all a favor and do away with the crummy sport altogether.

LOL

Sports in general are a waste of time in my opinion. YMMV.

R

Tennis is a great sport. I like golf too, and sailing and boating. Without such pursuits life may not be as fun.

[izamore3]

I think they should but numbers don't lie - they just don't generate as much money as mens.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by BristolCavendish

One sport where women will NEVER earn the same amount as men is in professional basketball. While the women often play more 'purer' game from the standpoint of conventional techniques and style, I am assuming that 90% of all basketball viewers would much rather watch the NBA over WNBA and men's NCAA basketball over women's collegiate any given day.

On the other hand, women's basketball often displays a better sense of teamwork and commitment to a common goal.

True enough BC, but how many people even know the name of their own city's WNBA team let alone name a player on it?

Heck, how many know if their city even has a WNBA team?