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Old 24 October 2017, 12:24 AM   #31
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I have close to 500,000 miles logged over 45 years of riding a bicycle. Thirteen of those years were on the European professional circuit. Many of the racers from that era have passed away; was it the use of performance enhancing drugs or just the wear and tear of elevated heart rates over an extended time? There are studies, but no conclusions yet. It is said the average pro dies before the age of sixty; well, I am only a year away...
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Old 24 October 2017, 02:25 AM   #32
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You are using someones statement of opinion, to justify your own statement of opinion?
You are arguing just to argue? How about offering a good rationale that there is something wrong with pursuing excellence in everything you do?

The participation trophies are right over there >>>>>>>
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Old 24 October 2017, 03:51 AM   #33
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You are arguing just to argue? How about offering a good rationale that there is something wrong with pursuing excellence in everything you do?

The participation trophies are right over there >>>>>>>
Clearly I’m not. I’m not arguing at all. I’m having a discussion. You are presenting your opinion as fact.

Did you miss the post where I provided a full example of my own experience?

Let me help you: post number 20.
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Old 24 October 2017, 04:02 AM   #34
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Please keep it on-topic ladies
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Old 24 October 2017, 04:59 AM   #35
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] Wrong answer. Unless you consider participation awards to be real achievements, pushing yourself in your endeavors is always more fulfilling than some half ass effort just to say you did it.
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"The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor." Vince Lombardi
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The participation trophies are right over there >>>>>>>
Perhaps the key here is to establish realistic personal goals and aspirations. Not everyone can be a nuclear physicist or world-class athlete. As a nine-year old my personal goal was to be a MLB player. By the time I reached 13, I realized that this wasn't gonna happen regardless of how much effort and energy I put into the process of skill development.

Abdullah, you remind me of a former HS gym instructor. Back in the day and at the beginning of each school year, physical fitness tests/evaluations were conducted and the gym period was broken down into three groups: (1) the ones who were fit and coordinated (so to speak), (2) those who met basic fitness levels and (3) the unfit/uncoordinated types.
This particular gym instructor (a former Marine) was in charge of the lower group and unmercifully strived to get these lower-tiered fitness group kids 'in shape' and guess what? It didn't work as year after year they were relegated to the 'low group'. On the other hand, many of them have gone on to successful careers while a sizable number of the 'fit group' never amounted to a hill of beans. Personally speaking, I always managed to be the middle group as I was not extraordinarily physically gifted nor uncoordinated from the general standpoint of fitness evaluation standards of the day.

As far as 'participation awards' are concerned, why not? As long as they serve to encourage an active interest in a particular endeavor I see no fault in them. During her early years (6-7 years of age), my daughter's youth soccer league handed out participation certificates to those who remained active in league activities. Since they were not keeping score at these games, my daughter simply worked on her ball-handling skills and became quite adept (to the point where some parents considered her a bit of a show-off). The desire and drive to go beyond certain limitations has to come from within and this effort is often best reserved for those actively pursuing a realistic collegiate/professional career.

Life is too short to establish pipe dreams of unreasonable attainment. If your drill sergeant/Vince Lombardi approach works in your personal approach to life, more power to you. Just try to keep in mind that there are others out there who may (or may not) share your inflexibilities.

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Please keep it on-topic ladies
Apologies if I deviated as well Bas. It had to be said and as always, I wish you the very best in all of your endeavors.
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Old 24 October 2017, 06:04 AM   #36
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Perhaps the key here is to establish realistic personal goals and aspirations. Not everyone can be a nuclear physicist or world-class athlete. As a nine-year old my personal goal was to be a MLB player. By the time I reached 13, I realized that this wasn't gonna happen regardless of how much effort and energy I put into the process of skill development.

Abdullah, you remind me of a former HS gym instructor. Back in the day and at the beginning of each school year, physical fitness tests/evaluations were conducted and the gym period was broken down into three groups: (1) the ones who were fit and coordinated (so to speak), (2) those who met basic fitness levels and (3) the unfit/uncoordinated types.
This particular gym instructor (a former Marine) was in charge of the lower group and unmercifully strived to get these lower-tiered fitness group kids 'in shape' and guess what? It didn't work as year after year they were relegated to the 'low group'. On the other hand, many of them have gone on to successful careers while a sizable number of the 'fit group' never amounted to a hill of beans. Personally speaking, I always managed to be the middle group as I was not extraordinarily physically gifted nor uncoordinated from the general standpoint of fitness evaluation standards of the day.

As far as 'participation awards' are concerned, why not? As long as they serve to encourage an active interest in a particular endeavor I see no fault in them. During her early years (6-7 years of age), my daughter's youth soccer league handed out participation certificates to those who remained active in league activities. Since they were not keeping score at these games, my daughter simply worked on her ball-handling skills and became quite adept (to the point where some parents considered her a bit of a show-off). The desire and drive to go beyond certain limitations has to come from within and this effort is often best reserved for those actively pursuing a realistic collegiate/professional career.

Life is too short to establish pipe dreams of unreasonable attainment. If your drill sergeant/Vince Lombardi approach works in your personal approach to life, more power to you. Just try to keep in mind that there are others out there who may (or may not) share your inflexibilities.



Apologies if I deviated as well Bas. It had to be said and as always, I wish you the very best in all of your endeavors.

You have missed the point entirely. Aspiring to excellence in everything one does is not the same as failing to be a professional ball player. It is simply driving oneself to be the best at whatever endeavor one chooses.

Your advice to set the bar lower is the antithesis to developing a drive to be successful. Do you advise students that a D is ok? Is it ok to almost pass a driving class? Is losing a goal?

If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well. Advising people to do anything half ass is cheating them out of ecouragement to go beyond their boundaries. What would this world be if no one was encouraged to reach for the stars?
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Old 24 October 2017, 06:31 AM   #37
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You have missed the point entirely. Aspiring to excellence in everything one does is not the same as failing to be a professional ball player. It is simply driving oneself to be the best at whatever endeavor one chooses.

Your advice to set the bar lower is the antithesis to developing a drive to be successful. Do you advise students that a D is ok? Is it ok to almost pass a driving class? Is losing a goal?

If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well. Advising people to do anything half ass is cheating them out of ecouragement to go beyond their boundaries. What would this world be if no one was encouraged to reach for the stars?

I agree but there is a limit to that. While I'd consider just finishing and barely making it through the time cut-offs a half ass attempt, you have to be realistic and know that you can't be 'the best', at least not in this sport.

During my first marathon, was I the best? heck no! it was an African dude who can run with an incredible speed that I can't even hold for 5 minutes, I wasn't even in the top 1000. At 4:54 it was almost an embarrassing time.

Now two weeks ago I ran 4:25, in bad weather and a lot more elevation, still not a 'good' time but I'm glad there is progression. I just need to learn how to keep pushing as it's mainly a game against the voices in your head, and I need to train harder.

But this isn't my career, my life doesn't depend on it, it's good to have goals and to push yourself, getting discipline, etc. But it has to stay fun. I'm at the point where I'm figuring out where the line is, how much am I willing to train and what can I achieve with that effort.
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Old 24 October 2017, 06:49 AM   #38
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I agree but there is a limit to that. While I'd consider just finishing and barely making it through the time cut-offs a half ass attempt, you have to be realistic and know that you can't be 'the best', at least not in this sport.

During my first marathon, was I the best? heck no! it was an African dude who can run with an incredible speed that I can't even hold for 5 minutes, I wasn't even in the top 1000. At 4:54 it was almost an embarrassing time.

Now two weeks ago I ran 4:25, in bad weather and a lot more elevation, still not a 'good' time but I'm glad there is progression. I just need to learn how to keep pushing as it's mainly a game against the voices in your head, and I need to train harder.

But this isn't my career, my life doesn't depend on it, it's good to have goals and to push yourself, getting discipline, etc. But it has to stay fun. I'm at the point where I'm figuring out where the line is, how much am I willing to train and what can I achieve with that effort.
Having people encourage you helps you to train harder when it is easier to just quit. What is the value in telling you to do less when you’ve said you want to pursue more?

I didn’t see people telling Chad to lower the bar when he was pursuing a spot in the Ironman. Why would your endeavors be different?
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Old 24 October 2017, 06:57 AM   #39
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You have missed the point entirely. Aspiring to excellence in everything one does is not the same as failing to be a professional ball player. It is simply driving oneself to be the best at whatever endeavor one chooses.

Your advice to set the bar lower is the antithesis to developing a drive to be successful. Do you advise students that a D is ok? Is it ok to almost pass a driving class? Is losing a goal?

If it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing well. Advising people to do anything half ass is cheating them out of ecouragement to go beyond their boundaries. What would this world be if no one was encouraged to reach for the stars?
If you scroll back, you'll find that I never advised anyone to do something half-assed. My earlier reference to 'lowering the bar' meant staying within realistic prospects of the big picture rather than endangering oneself physically, mentally and/or emotionally over potentially unachievable and/or self-destructive goals and aspirations. To go above and beyond certain 'common sense' parameters is an individual call/calling. The last time I checked, one had to learn how to walk before they could even consider running the high hurdles.
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Old 24 October 2017, 07:03 AM   #40
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Clearly I’m not. I’m not arguing at all. I’m having a discussion. You are presenting your opinion as fact.

Did you miss the post where I provided a full example of my own experience?

Let me help you: post number 20.
Sorry Bas. Didn’t mean to hijack your thread. I’ll pull up my skirt and make a more pointed comment.

Your doing great man. I’ve followed your threads and some of the accomplishments you’ve had.

Keep it up. Keep pushing yourself to new goals. But don’t forget to have fun. And don’t push yourself to the point of injury. It sucks when you have to sit on the sidelines.

Clearly what you are doing is far more than most people we’ll ever do. Keep it up.


Edit. Meant to quote your comment. Not mine.
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Old 24 October 2017, 07:08 AM   #41
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Having people encourage you helps you to train harder when it is easier to just quit. What is the value in telling you to do less when you’ve said you want to pursue more?

I didn’t see people telling Chad to lower the bar when he was pursuing a spot in the Ironman. Why would your endeavors be different?
Encouragement is definitely more valuable as it will be a mental push.
I haven't lowered my bar, nor will I do that, I will continue to raise it. But my point is that there is a limit to how far I'm willing to go. Getting decent times in marathon's and even ultras is that limit.

Reading about the 20yo guy who completed the moab ultra gave me a kick in the ass to move towards my dream. If it wasn't for that I'd probably not run an ultra within the next 2-3 years because of lame excuses (oh I'm not ready, I'm too young, blah blah..)
Now I'm going to get that Iceland ultra medal coming July
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Rolex uses rare elves to polish the platinum. They have a union deal and make like $90 per hour and get time and half on weekends.
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Old 24 October 2017, 07:12 AM   #42
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Encouragement is definitely more valuable as it will be a mental push.
I haven't lowered my bar, nor will I do that, I will continue to raise it. But my point is that there is a limit to how far I'm willing to go. Getting decent times in marathon's and even ultras is that limit.

Reading about the 20yo guy who completed the moab ultra gave me a kick in the ass to move towards my dream. If it wasn't for that I'd probably not run an ultra within the next 2-3 years because of lame excuses (oh I'm not ready, I'm too young, blah blah..)
Now I'm going to get that Iceland ultra medal coming July
Awesome.
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Old 24 October 2017, 07:13 AM   #43
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Sorry Bas. Didn’t mean to hijack your thread. I’ll pull up my skirt and make a more pointed comment.

Your doing great man. I’ve followed your threads and some of the accomplishments you’ve had.

Keep it up. Keep pushing yourself to new goals. But don’t forget to have fun. And don’t push yourself to the point of injury. It sucks when you have to sit on the sidelines.

Clearly what you are doing is far more than most people we’ll ever do. Keep it up.


Edit. Meant to quote your comment. Not mine.
No apologies needed man! Thanks for the encouragement

As for what I'm doing, I'm just a nutjob who runs long distances for no reason, there might be more valuable things to do in life
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Old 24 October 2017, 07:14 AM   #44
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Awesome.
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Old 24 October 2017, 07:15 AM   #45
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i got the keg bas.
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Old 24 October 2017, 02:53 PM   #46
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No apologies needed man! Thanks for the encouragement

As for what I'm doing, I'm just a nutjob who runs long distances for no reason, there might be more valuable things to do in life
Why do you do it Bas??

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Old 24 October 2017, 04:37 PM   #47
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i got the keg bas.


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Why do you do it Bas??

Hehehehe love that movie
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Old 24 October 2017, 05:51 PM   #48
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Hi Bas,
I have never run a 250miler, but I did run about twenty 150milers. I've also coached a few people to various ultra marathon PR's. And if you are serious about tackling this one (which looks absolutely, stunningly, incredibly awesome) then I would encourage you to go for it. Heck, I'm even considering giving it a go.

I hope you don't mind some unsolicited advice to get you started?

I believe the 3 main obstacles to overcome are pacing, nutrition and blisters.

You want to run the entire race at a consistent pace. Not shoot off like a rabbit and finish like a wounded tortoise. Based on your marathon pace you should aim for about a 57 hour finish (around 9.00 minutes/km). Which should translate to running the flats at 6:30minutes/km. The downhills at about 5:30 minutes/km. and WALKING the uphills at about 10-15 minutes/km depending on the gradient. It would also factor in time for toilet breaks and perhaps a 2 hour nap. It might seem slow, but it means you can sustain energy for the entire duration.

Consider that speed is relative to distance and gradient. Train shorter and flatter courses faster, and learn to adjust your pace accordingly for longer training runs. This will give you confidence because you will be in tune with your bodies capacity to work at high endurance.

Poor pacing is the number one reason people fail to finish ultra marathons.

Secondly you need a nutrition strategy. If you are going keep moving for over 50 hours you need more than sports drinks, gels and energy bars to sustain you. Learn to eat and move at the same time. Find foods that you can stomach whilst racing. For me steamed sweet potato, avocado and vegemite sandwiches were my go to. You will have to find something that suits you. Nutrition is also tied to pacing. If your body is working too hard, then your digestive system switches off. Leaving you feeling nauseous and unable to keep anything down. If you feel nauseous then you are running too fast. Back off.

Nutrition is the second most common reason people fail to finish ultra marathons (but usually it is nausea brought on by not following a pacing strategy).

And finally blisters. Learn how to avoid them. And how to deal with them should they arise. It's probably the third most common reason why people fail to finish ultra marathons.

I could go on and on... but for now all I will say is 250miles is doable. You must train your body and train your mind. But that amazing feeling of accomplishment you get from crossing the finish line is really really rewarding.
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Old 24 October 2017, 06:59 PM   #49
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Milov, thanks a lot for your message, it means a lot!

At this point in time I'm not going all-in for a 240miler, I'm going to do the 55km Laugavegur ultra in Iceland. With longer/more spectacular ultras in the future.

I will keep your message bookmarked, because it is hard to find good advice/tips on training for these.
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