Fake Rolex 5513 LOOK at the stamping!

[Safetrends]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The 5513 looks strange to me.

[mcjp6]

seller tictac ( 34)

Worn and slightly pitted but to me it looks OK - IMO

[FIB112358]

I can see what you are saying with regards to the stamping.
I have not yet seen a 5513 case with a "1" font that looks that way ie. the "1" font on this case has a base, the "1's" that I have seen before did not have a base. But when viewing the rest of the fonts and lettering on this case, they seem to be alright. I wrote about serial stamping in another post. I am leaning towards the conclusion that there were many different methods used in serial application. I have now seen examples of the same model from the same serial period using different methods of serial application and slightly different fonts. And also there is the issue of original cases that have had their serial restamped. Could this be an example of a refurbished case. Look at the case tube it is new.

[mcjp6]

Lance, would it be fair to say that the ref numbers are individually stamped?

The Registered Design and other words appear almost too neat to be done individually but do you know how they stamp a whole word in one go on a curved surface like that?

[Safetrends]

Could it be the reason is the 1970's stamping is not refined as todays Rolex?

[mcjp6]

Originally Posted by Safetrends

Could it be the reason is the 1970 is not refined as todays Rolex?

whats a 1970 Dave??

[Safetrends]

Fixed

[FIB112358]

Originally Posted by mcjp6

Lance, would it be fair to say that the ref numbers are individually stamped?

The Registered Design and other words appear almost too neat to be done individually but do you know how they stamp a whole word in one go on a curved surface like that?

Yes Michael, I agree with you, It appears that the model ref and serial numbers are applied individually. Hence the uneven appearance

But, as you pointed out the wording appears too neat to be done that way.
If the wording is applied as a whole at once, but the serial number is not, this would lead me to believe that the serial/model numbers and wording are done at seperate intervals in the case construction process. Perhaps, both are done using different stamping application methods.

I would think that it would not be an issue to apply the wording all at once to the curved surface if the stylograph method is used. But if the press/stamping method is used it would be more difficult to apply it all at once to the curved surface as you pointed out.

This is only a guess, but perhaps the wording is generally stylographed early on when the case is produced. And the model and refernce numbers are press stamped later on in the assembly proccess when the watch is near complete and serial number is recorded. But like I said this is only a guess. And I have seen many examples where both the wording and serial/model numbers are stylographed and not stamped, and some other examples where both are stamped and not stylographed.
So congratulations to me, I'm confused.

[CaveDiver]

The words on top look okay to me
The numbers/fonts/alignment look "funny"

[mcjp6]

Originally Posted by FIB112358

This is only a guess, but perhaps the wording is generally stylographed early on when the case is produced. And the model and refernce numbers are press stamped later on in the assembly proccess when the watch is near complete and serial number is recorded. But like I said this is only a guess.

I think you may be right here.

Also I would think that some cases can be used for more than one reference so until production is run and then demand known the case could end up as reference A or reference B. Probably then the serial no. done at the same time.

I can handle press/stamping technique but do not know the stylograph process....

This case stamping seems to be a whole world of its own.

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by FIB112358

Yes Michael, I agree with you, It appears that the model ref and serial numbers are applied individually. Hence the uneven appearance

But, as you pointed out the wording appears too neat to be done that way.
If the wording is applied as a whole at once, but the serial number is not, this would lead me to believe that the serial/model numbers and wording are done at seperate intervals in the case construction process. Perhaps, both are done using different stamping application methods.

I would think that it would not be an issue to apply the wording all at once to the curved surface if the stylograph method is used. But if the press/stamping method is used it would be more difficult to apply it all at once to the curved surface as you pointed out.

This is only a guess, but perhaps the wording is generally stylographed early on when the case is produced. And the model and refernce numbers are press stamped later on in the assembly proccess when the watch is near complete and serial number is recorded. But like I said this is only a guess. And I have seen many examples where both the wording and serial/model numbers are stylographed and not stamped, and some other examples where both are stamped and not stylographed.
So congratulations to me, I'm confused.

Lance I guess I found a good case to learn from, I have you and Michael going. Seems I find some rather good items to cause you guys to think. And I am learning a lot from you two.

Now the wear and tear, rust would be equal to a watch of that age? So then it is the real deal?

[mcjp6]

Originally Posted by Safetrends

Now the wear and tear, rust would be equal to a watch of that age? So then it is the real deal?

Look at the underside of the lugs Dave, you will see where the end pieces have been rubbing over time. I would say that this case is the real deal... apart from it looking real, no one is going to fake correct looking wear marks.

[FIB112358]

Originally Posted by mcjp6

I can handle press/stamping technique but do not know the stylograph process....

This case stamping seems to be a whole world of its own.

The information that I have read (I have been unable to find the source, but I will continue to look) indicates that Rolex used a stylograph machine as one of it's methods to print it's serials: How does it work:- The user traces over the serial numbers on a template and this is then inturn etched onto the case. This explains sometimes why the numbers and letters can look uneven like they have been etched by hand. But at the same time Rolex also did use the press/stamp method also.

If anyone can correct or verify the above information, that would be good.
But as far as I know this is how serial numbers were applied, at least for models up to the saphire era, I think perhaps a new etching method has been devised since the end of the 4digit ref models. I also think that Rolex settled with one font from the saphire era onwards as I have counted at least 5 different fonts that have been used prior to this. With different fonts being used at will regardless of model and era. At least that is what I have seen, so I may be right or wrong

[Tylden Reed]

The wording/numbers look good to me. I've never seen stamped digits on the edge of Oyster cases - only on the back! In the UK we call the machine used to produce this lettering a pantograph. As previously described it follows the form of a set of letters/numbers already set-out. The usual set-up is for the machine to reproduce the letters smaller than the master. I seem to remember using a similar machine at school to reproduce maps in my exercise book using a pencil - I am talking about the 1940s and '50s! Tylden.

[mcjp6]

Thanks for the input Tylden.

Pls excuse my ignorant question but is the character actually formed by an engraving action ie scratching or a pressing/pressure type action?

Also can you throw any light on the different fonts used, timing of the different markings during production and why some of the serial no. and ref no's are not perfectly lined up?

Basically some of the unanswered questions from above.

[Tylden Reed]

Originally Posted by mcjp6

Thanks for the input Tylden.

Pls excuse my ignorant question but is the character actually formed by an engraving action ie scratching or a pressing/pressure type action?

Also can you throw any light on the different fonts used, timing of the different markings during production and why some of the serial no. and ref no's are not perfectly lined up?

Basically some of the unanswered questions from above.

Hi there. The letter is formed either by a diamond being drawn across the surface with medium pressure being applied. This gives a single narrow line. Your example looks as if the letter was formed by a rotating stylus (either diamond, steel or tungston), the lines are wider than diamond and end in small circles within the line width. The lining-up of the numbers suggest they used a set of rotating DRUMS (like old fashoned car mileometers that don't quite lne up) with numbers in each, these may not have been properly set-up for each number. The word "Registered" would have been a stock word so the problem of lining-up the letters should not occur! Others may be able to help you with the styles used, I've never made records of this. Back to work!... Tylden.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by Tylden Reed

The wording/numbers look good to me. .

Wording yes. The font on the numbers is not consistent with other 5512/5513 I have seen from ~70. Are you saying Rolex not consistent from s/n 27xxxxx to 30xxxxx

[mcjp6]

Originally Posted by Tylden Reed

the lines are wider than diamond and end in small circles within the line width.

You are right, I did not notice that. This definitely needs some research. Also as CaveDiver and Lance pointed out the "1" in 5513 has a base and also the top left hand "tail" goes out almost horizontally. Neither features have I seen before, which does not make wrong, I just have not seen it before.

On my, 5513 the top left tail on the "1" comes down at 45 deg and has NO base.

So I am with you Lance, now confused.......

[springer]

I have never seen a "1" stamped with the base also. Based on the pics, it appears that it might be re-stamped, but the case and remainder of the stampings appear genuine.

[Safetrends]

ORCHI just PM me and said it is the real deal.

[idk01]

Originally Posted by Safetrends

ORCHI just PM me and said it is the real deal.

Nice one I was quite mixed on this one Dave, I think you gathered that from my PM didn't look right but could be legit :-)

Glad you posted this one

[Safetrends]

I truly enjoy giving you guys a real mind teaser to work on, as you know I am always learning.

[Earl Camembert]

The numbers look new; possibly redone. If so it should not have been done.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by Safetrends

ORCHI just PM me and said it is the real deal.

Case being real and Rolex numbering is two different things. Maybe Orchi can elaborate with example with the given number font?

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Case being real and Rolex numbering is two different things. Maybe Orchi can elaborate with example with the given number font?

Quote from ORCHI:
Re: 5513

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buddy Walter...thanks for your PM...

That would appear to be an original but used Rolex 5513 case...

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by Safetrends

Quote from ORCHI:
Re: 5513

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buddy Walter...thanks for your PM...

That would appear to be an original but used Rolex 5513 case...

that is confusing. Still would like clarification on the number font with example. Rolex Case not equal Rolex Case Engraving Numbers no?

[springer]

Maybe Orchi can provide some examples of this type of case numbering where this "1" is used. I'd sure like to add it to my files. Thanks in advance Orchi.

[Orchi]

Err buddies...sorry for late response...
as Orchi just got to this thread...
but better late than never...they say.

Here are the pictures showing the same type of "1" font...
n fonts that were stamped at times deeply or maybe lightly...on Rolex cases.

This particular font "1" does appear on broad range of models...
n case series...

[CaveDiver]

Buddy Orchi,
Thanks for the photos. Yes, we see that Rolex has changed their fonts on “newer” models and non 5513 cases. However, have you seen 5513 with SN: 300xxxx ~1970 case?
Thanks

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Buddy Orchi,
Thanks for the photos. Yes, we see that Rolex has changed their fonts on “newer” models and non 5513 cases. However, have you seen 5513 with SN: 300xxxx ~1970 case?
Thanks

Err buddy...that's not correct...

The watch cases shown with that font "1"...
ranges from 1.6mil to 6.3mil case series...
One in particular is 2,999,xxx case...
which is very close to the 5513 3,00x,xxx case...

The case is fine...
The Seller is fine too...

Look at it this way...
The 5513 with 3,00x,xxx case...is within the range of 1680 RED Sub...
which shares the similar case...

Orchi has seen this font "1" on 1680 RED Sub cases...

IF the Seller wants to fool somebody...n he's capable of it...
he might as well..."punched"...the case with "1680" instead...
which is MORE highly prized...than 5513 of the same era...
in early 70s...