Electric cars....sooner than you think?

[1st amg]

Watching BNN and CNBC who are all over the EV craze are now saying to be careful as the big Motor companies(Ford,GM) are coming in fast against Tesla are worried that the cities power grid will not be able to handle the influx of EV....this is going to be a big problem for the electrical power grids of cities.....this EV does not sound to promising right now.

[GoingPlaces]

Among other challenges, how do people in cities charge their cars? Drive down residential streets in any major city and there are thousands of cars parked on the street. Then the parking garages, people that live in buildings with underground parking will need to charge their vehicles. I cant imagine adding 5 charging stations in a garage with 400 vehicles will be enough if we end up at 100%EV.

[brandrea]

From the research I’ve done to install solar panels on our house, a third of our homes electricity was me charging my PHEV (4.4 Mw out of 13.9 MW annual consumption).

If every car converts to electric that’s a huge amount of power to the grid that will be required.

In a report I posted earlier in this thread, according to the expert, if every car on the planet were converted to electric tomorrow, the affect on C02 emissions would drop 5%. Not saying that isn’t substantial but it was interesting for me to hear how low that number is.

The grid would most definitely need to expand to meet the needs of EV’s.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

Watching BNN and CNBC who are all over the EV craze are now saying to be careful as the big Motor companies(Ford,GM) are coming in fast against Tesla are worried that the cities power grid will not be able to handle the influx of EV....this is going to be a big problem for the electrical power grids of cities.....this EV does not sound to promising right now.

I refer you all tto my previous post, referencing Mr K Rockwell's views on EV's.


Which of us i going to be happy with yet more armies of pylons marching accross the landscape and into our towns and villages.

Nobody has yet (here) mentiond the possible dangers of radiation from HV power lines.

[MDMH]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

Among other challenges, how do people in cities charge their cars? Drive down residential streets in any major city and there are thousands of cars parked on the street. Then the parking garages, people that live in buildings with underground parking will need to charge their vehicles. I cant imagine adding 5 charging stations in a garage with 400 vehicles will be enough if we end up at 100%EV.

Agreed!!!

You see it in Manhattan peoples cars plugged in with a cable across the sidewalk from their brownstone to street parking.... Not to mention the gov't advises us to watch our A/C usuage during the summer to avoid shortages or brownouts..... too expensive to upgrade capacity so now what happens when a million cars are all plugged in 24/7?

[904VT]

Originally Posted by brandrea

From the research I’ve done to install solar panels on our house, a third of our homes electricity was me charging my PHEV (4.4 Mw out of 13.9 MW annual consumption).

If every car converts to electric that’s a huge amount of power to the grid that will be required.

In a report I posted earlier in this thread, according to the expert, if every car on the planet were converted to electric tomorrow, the affect on C02 emissions would drop 5%. Not saying that isn’t substantial but it was interesting for me to hear how low that number is.

The grid would most definitely need to expand to meet the needs of EV’s.

I'm worried about the grid, but more so what do we do with all these lithium ion battery waste. That is way more toxic than C02. If we want a pollution crisis, this seems the way to do it.

Just personally, I think the 5% reduction is greatly exaggerated. Ports out the CO2 during driving, and masks the CO2 exhausted during production of energy units at power plants and in the production of plastics inputed into the vehicle. I'd much rather see a full ban on plastics and styrofoam, but I guess that's not a sexy cause. We also need to stop producing junk that only last a few years and becomes waste.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56574779

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

I refer you all tto my previous post, referencing Mr K Rockwell's views on EV's.

Which of us i going to be happy with yet more armies of pylons marching accross the landscape and into our towns and villages.

Nobody has yet (here) mentiond the possible dangers of radiation from HV power lines.

You bring up a good point. Though radiation in general is largely ignored today everywhere. I wonder how many know that if you read a microwave instruction manual it says to stay approx at least 8 feet away from while running. That our radiation guidelines for mobile phones are based on output of technology in the 1990's. If you read mobile phone owner's manuals, most will say do not let your cell phone rest against your skin/body.

[GoingPlaces]

My guess is that in 40 years or so we will realize that this entire EV push has been nothing short of a disaster for the environment. IMO alternative fuel is the solution.

What happens to the batteries? Also, if car companies really cared why do they not build cars to last longer and not push short leases and earlier trade-ins (via obsolete/dated tech) that require more production and ultimately more scrap metal for the earth? Cars have become nothing more than expensive iPhones IMO.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Blansky

We've had this discussion in previous threads. Here's an interesting article and if you read the comments section, some of the same issues....and answers.

Personally I think like the article states it is beginning the unstoppable wave phase that will soon wash over, much like the computer did and will be everywhere sooner that people anticipated, while addressing the negative issues in the same way.

I still think you'll be able to find gas for your classic car to tool around in on weekends but you won't be able to find any new ICE cars on the market.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57...ign=pockethits

It’s remarkably depressing. It’s silly, pandering and pointless but worst of all it’s depressing. I hope it’s wrong.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by brandrea

From the research I’ve done to install solar panels on our house, a third of our homes electricity was me charging my PHEV (4.4 Mw out of 13.9 MW annual consumption).

If every car converts to electric that’s a huge amount of power to the grid that will be required.

In a report I posted earlier in this thread, according to the expert, if every car on the planet were converted to electric tomorrow, the affect on C02 emissions would drop 5%. Not saying that isn’t substantial but it was interesting for me to hear how low that number is.

The grid would most definitely need to expand to meet the needs of EV’s.

I think internal combustion engines have had their day. Been around for about 150 years and we've tweaked them and tweaked them and it's time to retire them in most cases.

Something else will take their place as we've come to terms with their downsides. EV is one of the possible answers and now that we've KNOW we are replacing ICE a lot of solution will come down the pike, some better than others.

The naysayers will always be here but the fact of the matter is ICE is going away. And remember when we had the horse and buggy and trains started coming out people thought they were too dangerous because humans should not go faster than 15 MPH for health reasons.

And also when the first automobiles appeared on the scene, there were virtually no gas stations at first. But demand slowly created more. And more. And more.

Humans are a creative bunch. Once we stopped thinking ICE and started thinking something else, ideas have been flowing at a rapid rate. And they will probably continue along the lines of Moore's Law.

But our first challenge was/is to move to different energy sources and combat the entrenched monetary and political roadblocks that have blocked this evolution. When traditional energy companies started looking at this issue and investing in alternatives maybe 5-10 years ago, you know the horse was out of the barn.

Just like my analogy with digital photography from analog photography you knew the world was in transition the day Kodak changed it's name to Kodak Imaging.

There will be obstacles and things to overcome and new inventions and fresh ideas, but the times they are a changin'. Fast.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I think internal combustion engines have had their day. Been around for about 150 years and we've tweaked them and tweaked them and it's time to retire them in most cases.

Something else will take their place as we've come to terms with their downsides. EV is one of the possible answers and now that we've KNOW we are replacing ICE a lot of solution will come down the pike, some better than others.

The naysayers will always be here but the fact of the matter is ICE is going away. And remember when we had the horse and buggy and trains started coming out people thought they were too dangerous because humans should not go faster than 15 MPH for health reasons.

And also when the first automobiles appeared on the scene, there were virtually no gas stations at first. But demand slowly created more. And more. And more.

Humans are a creative bunch. Once we stopped thinking ICE and started thinking something else, ideas have been flowing at a rapid rate. And they will probably continue along the lines of Moore's Law.

But our first challenge was/is to move to different energy sources and combat the entrenched monetary and political roadblocks that have blocked this evolution. When traditional energy companies started looking at this issue and investing in alternatives maybe 5-10 years ago, you know the horse was out of the barn.

Just like my analogy with digital photography from analog photography you knew the world was in transition the day Kodak changed it's name to Kodak Imaging.

There will be obstacles and things to overcome and new inventions and fresh ideas, but the times they are a changin'. Fast.

But was that not reviewed because of government subsidy? What I mean by that is silly things like carbon credits that can be resold. It distracts from the real issue imo, which is not consumer driven vehicle pollution, but actual manufacturing/industry pollution and dumping. I have to think smartphones are a major polluter too. The whole thing seems to be well this country or that can't pollute, but these other countries can pollute because they are still a "developing economy". We need consistency.

https://www.manufacturing.gov/news/a...-and-pollution

How can we only invest $15m into combating plastic pollution and improving recycling when we throw trillions around like monopoly money. Much of which goes to the biggest offenders of pollution in bail outs/loans/subsidies.

I think we're most likely to see 15 years of struggle implementing EVs, resulting in the dismantling of ICE production chains, followed by admitted failure and pollution driven by EVs, similar to how Bitcoin pollution "just" was noticed. Resulting in a population that isn't as keen on driving themselves and the only options becoming over the next 20-30 years self-driving vehicles owned by corporations with an Uber type philosophy.

To me the solution is pretty obvious. It's not going fully electric. It's continuing to develop cleaner ICE engines, while leaving time for cleaning up the battery production disposal dirtiness, improving grids, and developing clean and reliable sources of energy (something more advanced than wind, perhaps new highly advanced solar panels using nano electronic technology to increase UV energy absorption). By that time we should have figured a better way to produce electricity and produce/dispose of batteries.

If we don't start removing the electronic complexities in our vehicles, the next Carrington event will render them all useless junk/waste/pollution.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I think internal combustion engines have had their day. Been around for about 150 years and we've tweaked them and tweaked them and it's time to retire them in most cases.

Something else will take their place as we've come to terms with their downsides. EV is one of the possible answers and now that we've KNOW we are replacing ICE a lot of solution will come down the pike, some better than others.

The naysayers will always be here but the fact of the matter is ICE is going away. And remember when we had the horse and buggy and trains started coming out people thought they were too dangerous because humans should not go faster than 15 MPH for health reasons.

And also when the first automobiles appeared on the scene, there were virtually no gas stations at first. But demand slowly created more. And more. And more.

Humans are a creative bunch. Once we stopped thinking ICE and started thinking something else, ideas have been flowing at a rapid rate. And they will probably continue along the lines of Moore's Law.

But our first challenge was/is to move to different energy sources and combat the entrenched monetary and political roadblocks that have blocked this evolution. When traditional energy companies started looking at this issue and investing in alternatives maybe 5-10 years ago, you know the horse was out of the barn.

Just like my analogy with digital photography from analog photography you knew the world was in transition the day Kodak changed it's name to Kodak Imaging.

There will be obstacles and things to overcome and new inventions and fresh ideas, but the times they are a changin'. Fast.

I agree, and in this case the change will be slow and ever evolving

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by 904VT

To me the solution is pretty obvious. It's not going fully electric. It's continuing to develop cleaner ICE engines, while leaving time for cleaning up the battery production disposal dirtiness, improving grids, and developing clean and reliable sources of energy (something more advanced than wind, perhaps new highly advanced solar panels using nano electronic technology to increase UV energy absorption). By that time we should have figured a better way to produce electricity and produce/dispose of batteries.

I disagree. ICE is in the rear view mirror.

People are now looking forward and what some see as obstacles and roadblocks will be merely seen just as challenges. I'm sure lots of them.

The first real computer was built about 48 years ago and the concept didn't take off for another maybe 10-15 years and now they've taken over every aspect of life.

AND they were merely a novelty and not a necessity. Alternative energy is NOT a novelty, it's a now a necessity and it's progress will be far faster.

That sound you hear from ICE is a death rattle.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I disagree. ICE is in the rear view mirror.

People are now looking forward and what some see as obstacles and roadblocks will be merely seen just as challenges. I'm sure lots of them.

But that sound you hear from ICE is a death rattle.

I hear people still like that death rattle artificially pumped into their EVs to remind them of what it was like driving a real vehicle, rather than disposable technology/driving iPhone E Waste

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I'm worried about the grid, but more so what do we do with all these lithium ion battery waste. That is way more toxic than C02. If we want a pollution crisis, this seems the way to do it.

Just personally, I think the 5% reduction is greatly exaggerated. Ports out the CO2 during driving, and masks the CO2 exhausted during production of energy units at power plants and in the production of plastics inputed into the vehicle. I'd much rather see a full ban on plastics and styrofoam, but I guess that's not a sexy cause. We also need to stop producing junk that only last a few years and becomes waste.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56574779



You bring up a good point. Though radiation in general is largely ignored today everywhere. I wonder how many know that if you read a microwave instruction manual it says to stay approx at least 8 feet away from while running. That our radiation guidelines for mobile phones are based on output of technology in the 1990's. If you read mobile phone owner's manuals, most will say do not let your cell phone rest against your skin/body.

I agree, it’s hard to know what figures to believe. IMHO they’re simply guesses (educated ones) that resonate with whichever side of the debate you’re on

As for all the batteries I think we will find ways to recycle them like this company: https://li-cycle.com/

As Blansky points out, we humans are pretty creative, things will evolve and will find newer, cleaner ways to get from A-B.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I agree, it’s hard to know what figures to believe. IMHO they’re simply guesses (educated ones) that resonate with whichever side of the debate you’re on

As for all the batteries I think we will find ways to recycle them like this company: https://li-cycle.com/

As Blansky points out, we humans are pretty creative, things will evolve and will find newer, cleaner ways to get from A-B.

All I'll say is that an ICE is hypothetically able to be repaired in perpetuity. You can't say the same about lithium ion batteries. A product that become unrepairable becomes waste. So those solutions need to be figured, before we start manufacturing more waste. That said, we should have done a much better job repairing vehicles rather than sending to junkyards over the years. The good news is full steel ICE vehicles will eventually return back to the earth (though may be millions of years), but plastics and lithium ion batteries cannot. I think we're quick to assume our current tech is dirtier. I'm sure we'll figure solutions, but just like computers hopefully we don't put profit first and rush them.

[bondtoys]

If you look outside of your box (country), the switch to EVs is already happening - everywhere!
The alternative is to continue burning oil with all consequences.

Some may say that efuels or hydrogen are the future.
Well, just look at how much energy is necessary to produce, transport and store them and then again complaint that the infrastructure can‘t pull an increase in EVs.

If 20% more electric power is really needed and needs to be moved( an exaggeration imo because EVs should be charged by solar panels on your home to a larger number), man will find a way to solve this matter.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I'm sure we'll figure solutions, but just like computers hopefully we don't put profit first and rush them.

I think the profit motive is one of the main drivers of innovation, for better or worse.

That and war.

And one could argue, whether we agree or not, that we are now on war footing on climate change and alternative energy sources worldwide.

At the beginning of WW2 the Ford motor plant made cars. 3 years later they could turn out a bomber, one every hour.

Necessity being the mother of invention... and all that.

[bondtoys]

As for batteries,

1. They will find ways to use less energy and less toxic materials to make them
2. Recycling processes will be improved
3. When the EV battery is too tired for an EV it still can be used in your home system to store the solar energy that has been produced during a sunny day. (Second and third life).

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I think the profit motive is one of the main drivers of innovation, for better or worse.

That and war.

And one could argue, whether we agree or not, that we are now on war footing on climate change and alternative energy sources.

At the beginning of WW2 the Ford motor plant made cars. 3 years later they could turn out a bomber, one every hour.

I agree. I guess extreme pressure or opportunity creates innovation.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by 1st amg

Watching BNN and CNBC who are all over the EV craze are now saying to be careful as the big Motor companies(Ford,GM) are coming in fast against Tesla are worried that the cities power grid will not be able to handle the influx of EV....this is going to be a big problem for the electrical power grids of cities.....this EV does not sound to promising right now.

Couldn’t agree more Nicholas. I’m not convinced EV is the end game, but it’s one possible alternative to the ICE. In the meantime the grid will be under pressure to keep up.

There are some pretty cool technologies out there like this:

https://www.arcenergy.co/technology

People love to drive cars and let’s face it, it’s a necessity for many. I don’t see those behaviors changing any time soon, and it means more power will be needed.

[GoingPlaces]

Originally Posted by 904VT

But was that not reviewed because of government subsidy? What I mean by that is silly things like carbon credits that can be resold. It distracts from the real issue imo, which is not consumer driven vehicle pollution, but actual manufacturing/industry pollution and dumping. I have to think smartphones are a major polluter too. The whole thing seems to be well this country or that can't pollute, but these other countries can pollute because they are still a "developing economy". We need consistency.

https://www.manufacturing.gov/news/a...-and-pollution

How can we only invest $15m into combating plastic pollution and improving recycling when we throw trillions around like monopoly money. Much of which goes to the biggest offenders of pollution in bail outs/loans/subsidies.

I think we're most likely to see 15 years of struggle implementing EVs, resulting in the dismantling of ICE production chains, followed by admitted failure and pollution driven by EVs, similar to how Bitcoin pollution "just" was noticed. Resulting in a population that isn't as keen on driving themselves and the only options becoming over the next 20-30 years self-driving vehicles owned by corporations with an Uber type philosophy.

To me the solution is pretty obvious. It's not going fully electric. It's continuing to develop cleaner ICE engines, while leaving time for cleaning up the battery production disposal dirtiness, improving grids, and developing clean and reliable sources of energy (something more advanced than wind, perhaps new highly advanced solar panels using nano electronic technology to increase UV energy absorption). By that time we should have figured a better way to produce electricity and produce/dispose of batteries.

If we don't start removing the electronic complexities in our vehicles, the next Carrington event will render them all useless junk/waste/pollution.

Spot on.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I disagree. ICE is in the rear view mirror.

People are now looking forward and what some see as obstacles and roadblocks will be merely seen just as challenges. I'm sure lots of them.

The first real computer was built about 48 years ago and the concept didn't take off for another maybe 10-15 years and now they've taken over every aspect of life.

AND they were merely a novelty and not a necessity. Alternative energy is NOT a novelty, it's a now a necessity and it's progress will be far faster.

That sound you hear from ICE is a death rattle.

I completely agree. Love it or hate it, the trend is EVs taking more and more of the market until SOMEDAY, (20 years, 30 years, 50? Who knows) they will be the majority and ICE will be somewhat of a novelty. Are there challenges with the grid and battery disposal? Of course, but there were challenges with the ICE that were overcome, EVs will also. And No, an ICE car is not perpetual and an EV a throw-away. There is maintenance and up-keep required on an ICE vehicle, (I would argue a LOT more then required on an EV) but it is NOT a forever power source, eventually the block/cylinders/valve etc will need replacement, just as the electric motors and other components on an EV will need it. I don’t have data to back me up on this but I submit the EV requires a lot less attention and (eventually) will last longer then an ICE.

The last point, making ICEs cleaner doesn’t really work. Right now, they are (something like) 99.9% cleaner then 10 or 20 years ago, I submit we are near the pinnacle of ICE development, can’t get much cleaner, and it does not address the Main issue of adding CO2 in to the atmosphere.

I know there are arguments that EVs actually cause more pollution with the lithium batteries and if power that charges is derived from coal and other factors, but these will be solved. Renewables (solar, wind etc) are slowly taking more and more of the power creation. Some day, your EV will be charged from a clean producer and the battery will be disposed of properly.

Now Hydrogen Versus EVs is a completely different story, I believe the Hydrogen or Helium powered cars are the ultimate future, but that’s to be seen.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I completely agree. Love it or hate it, the trend is EVs taking more and more of the market until SOMEDAY, (20 years, 30 years, 50? Who knows) they will be the majority and ICE will be somewhat of a novelty. Are there challenges with the grid and battery disposal? Of course, but there were challenges with the ICE that were overcome, EVs will also. And No, an ICE car is not perpetual and an EV a throw-away. There is maintenance and up-keep required on an ICE vehicle, (I would argue a LOT more then required on an EV) but it is NOT a forever power source, eventually the block/cylinders/valve etc will need replacement, just as the electric motors and other components on an EV will need it. I don’t have data to back me up on this but I submit the EV requires a lot less attention and (eventually) will last longer then an ICE.

The last point, making ICEs cleaner doesn’t really work. Right now, they are (something like) 99.9% cleaner then 10 or 20 years ago, I submit we are near the pinnacle of ICE development, can’t get much cleaner, and it does not address the Main issue of adding CO2 in to the atmosphere.

I know there are arguments that EVs actually cause more pollution with the lithium batteries and if power that charges is derived from coal and other factors, but these will be solved. Renewables (solar, wind etc) are slowly taking more and more of the power creation. Some day, your EV will be charged from a clean producer and the battery will be disposed of properly.

Now Hydrogen Versus EVs is a completely different story, I believe the Hydrogen or Helium powered cars are the ultimate future, but that’s to be seen.

I don't believe for one second that we are anywhere near maximizing the efficiency of ICE. The incentive was not there with abundance of cheap crude over that time period. There is still gas left in the tank. We haven't even considered the potential for new high-tech refining techniques and blends.

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I don't believe for one second that we are anywhere near maximizing the efficiency of ICE. The incentive was not there with abundance of cheap crude over that time period. There is still gas left in the tank. We haven't even considered the potential for new high-tech refining techniques and blends.

However, the efficiency equation has brought about a ton of 4 cyl engines in larger vehicles (think Volvo) to the market that people are not wild about driving. Even Volvo recognizes this and has dedicated their R&D to all electric by 2030.

The new F150 will have a huge impact on many buyers who have been sitting on the sidelines until now.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I don't believe for one second that we are anywhere near maximizing the efficiency of ICE. The incentive was not there with abundance of cheap crude over that time period. There is still gas left in the tank. We haven't even considered the potential for new high-tech refining techniques and blends.

In the 70s the average MPG was … well lousy. I am guessing, I supposed we could google this info, but probably 15 MPG(?). In the 80s and 90s it started getting better, very quickly. 30MPG was not unheard of. So, how far has it come up since the 80s and early 90s? If there was a lot of room to increase the efficiency, we would have seen it over the last 20 years and the average MPG would be somewhere around 100. I submit is has gone up one or two MPG in the last 20 years, the margin of improvement is less and less.

BUT, let’s say you are correct, and the efficiency increases to…. Oh…. 60, 70, 80 MPG, roughly twice what it is today. Yes, that is (roughly) have the pollutants being put in to the air, hydrocarbons and the other’s would be reduced. What about CO2? You burn ANY kind of fuel, and you release CO2 in to the atmosphere. This is fact. Add to that there are more and more cars being produced, your 80 MPG ICE will still be contributing to Global Warming (If you believe it) and other pollutants. Let’s ASSUME, you EV is charged from a renewable source, like solar for example. The pollutant output is (practically) zero. Yes, I understand what will we do with the battery when it’s dead, but there are similar problems with ICE, what do we do with all the oils, metals, fluids, plastic etc. From current ICEs that are end of life?

[texasmade]

Part of the reason why MPG has barely ticked up is because cars are so much bigger and heavier than before. Engines have been getting more efficient it’s just that the efficiency is being offset by the extra weight.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Part of the reason why MPG has barely ticked up is because cars are so much bigger and heavier than before. Engines have been getting more efficient it’s just that the efficiency is being offset by the extra weight.

I am not sure about this. It would take some research but I would guess they are lighter. My first car was a 1972 Ford LTD, the thing was a tank. There was steel everywhere, I specifically remember the doors being so heavy to open and close and when you did close them it sounded like a dungeon hatch being shut. Fast forward to today, my Ford Fusion Hybrid has plastic (and aluminum) EVERYWHERE. Of course I have the hybrid battery that adds weight but take the regular Fusion, I can’t believe when you compare it to cars of the 70s it actually weighs more.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Part of the reason why MPG has barely ticked up is because cars are so much bigger and heavier than before. Engines have been getting more efficient it’s just that the efficiency is being offset by the extra weight.

ICE engines are virtually maxed out when it comes to pollution and consumption.
Any further improvement will be minimal and costly.

[Speedbird-1]

How quickly will F1, Drag Racing, Moto GP et al, become totally irrelevant?
(If not, already)

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

In the 70s the average MPG was … well lousy. I am guessing, I supposed we could google this info, but probably 15 MPG(?). In the 80s and 90s it started getting better, very quickly. 30MPG was not unheard of. So, how far has it come up since the 80s and early 90s? If there was a lot of room to increase the efficiency, we would have seen it over the last 20 years and the average MPG would be somewhere around 100. I submit is has gone up one or two MPG in the last 20 years, the margin of improvement is less and less.

BUT, let’s say you are correct, and the efficiency increases to…. Oh…. 60, 70, 80 MPG, roughly twice what it is today. Yes, that is (roughly) have the pollutants being put in to the air, hydrocarbons and the other’s would be reduced. What about CO2? You burn ANY kind of fuel, and you release CO2 in to the atmosphere. This is fact. Add to that there are more and more cars being produced, your 80 MPG ICE will still be contributing to Global Warming (If you believe it) and other pollutants. Let’s ASSUME, you EV is charged from a renewable source, like solar for example. The pollutant output is (practically) zero. Yes, I understand what will we do with the battery when it’s dead, but there are similar problems with ICE, what do we do with all the oils, metals, fluids, plastic etc. From current ICEs that are end of life?

Autos still only contribute about 5% to global CO2 emissions, (depending who you quote). Not saying 5% isn’t insignificant, but there are other fish to fry as well.

I agree, that alternatives to the ICE are rapidly gaining traction as they should. I guess in my mind it’s a bit like steering a HUGE ship, change of direction is slow at first and gradually takes hold.

I wonder/worry if we aren’t piling into EV tech without making some of the same mistakes we did with ICE’s