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Old 18 November 2007, 08:04 AM   #1
Baptistman
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Interesting story & a warning

This afternoon I visited the city for some Christmas shopping with my family, and of course visited a couple of AD's. One of the AD's I visited is a well known and respected multiple retailer in the UK for Fine Swiss timepieces. They also own authorised branded boutiques in London. I happen to know some of the staff very well and so popped in to have a chat. I asked one of the consultants (who i've known for some years) what he was wearing these days and whether he had sold on his Patek. (last time I saw him he was considering selling it) He grimaced and said he had had a problem. He had purchased the Patek from the company, they had bought it in from a long standing customer and indeed had had the watch in over number of years for servicing. The watch had been sent to London HQ for evaluation and then bought in. My friend then purchased it from them. Its worth mentioning that this retailer services all swiss brands in house. They claim there watchmakers are trained by the various watch houses etc. Anyway he deceided to send to Patek directly for a service and refurb before selling privately, only to be sent back stating the watch was a franken, the movement was genuine, but the case was not patek. As a result they refused to touch it. So there specialist buyer in london had been duped, the watch technitions had not noticed, indeed the previous owner had had it serviced and refurbished at the cost of £900 by this retailer. So moral of this story is, even professionals handling these pieces every day can be misled. As he said, he wish he hadent found out.
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Old 18 November 2007, 08:16 AM   #2
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Stories like this are the stuff of nightmares to the collector.

Indeed, there have cases of rare Rolex references being serviced by RSCs only to have the owner find out later the watch in question was not genuine. At a certain level (and as vintage pricing explodes that level lowers) one must be so very carefull and do the homework necessary---actually vintage or modern.
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Old 18 November 2007, 08:20 AM   #3
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one must be so very carefull and do the homework necessary---actually vintage or modern.
So are greys like Furman a no-no for you Mike?
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Old 18 November 2007, 08:31 AM   #4
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Scary!

What model Patek was it?

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Old 18 November 2007, 08:40 AM   #5
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So are greys like Furman a no-no for you Mike?
I wouldn't say that. I do believe in doing ones research prior to buying though. I will say this though since you brought it up.

AND THIS NO INDICTMENT ON ANY DEALER OR ANYONE.

There was an instance on this very forum a while back where a member bought a NEW Yacht-Master from that dealer--with a tritium dial??
Fortunately it was posted here and the mistake was quickly corrected.

Trust..but verify.
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Old 18 November 2007, 08:43 AM   #6
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Wow.. makes me scared to ever let my watches out of my sight, and to buy secondhand!
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Old 18 November 2007, 08:43 AM   #7
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Scary!

What model Patek was it?

not sure myself, the case was 18ct gold, just not made by patek. When so much money is being spent, I suppose you can't beat buying from an AD brand new. By the way, for JJ, one of the consultants there today had some smashing cleaveage. Thought of JJ as I was admiring..................the watches
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Old 18 November 2007, 01:20 PM   #8
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Wow.. makes me scared to ever let my watches out of my sight, and to buy secondhand!
Same here. Going new and only through an AD certainly costs more but there's all sorts of value added in so many different ways--the biggest of them all simply being peace of mind.

Maybe after I have my collection built up to the point where I'm completely satisfied, then I might dabble in used watches just for fun. But in the meantime, all my watches have to be BNIB from an AD.
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Old 18 November 2007, 02:14 PM   #9
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Damn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baptistman View Post
This afternoon I visited the city for some Christmas shopping with my family, and of course visited a couple of AD's. One of the AD's I visited is a well known and respected multiple retailer in the UK for Fine Swiss timepieces. They also own authorised branded boutiques in London. I happen to know some of the staff very well and so popped in to have a chat. I asked one of the consultants (who i've known for some years) what he was wearing these days and whether he had sold on his Patek. (last time I saw him he was considering selling it) He grimaced and said he had had a problem. He had purchased the Patek from the company, they had bought it in from a long standing customer and indeed had had the watch in over number of years for servicing. The watch had been sent to London HQ for evaluation and then bought in. My friend then purchased it from them. Its worth mentioning that this retailer services all swiss brands in house. They claim there watchmakers are trained by the various watch houses etc. Anyway he deceided to send to Patek directly for a service and refurb before selling privately, only to be sent back stating the watch was a franken, the movement was genuine, but the case was not patek. As a result they refused to touch it. So there specialist buyer in london had been duped, the watch technitions had not noticed, indeed the previous owner had had it serviced and refurbished at the cost of £900 by this retailer. So moral of this story is, even professionals handling these pieces every day can be misled. As he said, he wish he hadent found out.
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Old 18 November 2007, 02:40 PM   #10
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Same here. Going new and only through an AD certainly costs more but there's all sorts of value added in so many different ways--the biggest of them all simply being peace of mind.

Maybe after I have my collection built up to the point where I'm completely satisfied, then I might dabble in used watches just for fun. But in the meantime, all my watches have to be BNIB from an AD.
Well said.
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Old 18 November 2007, 03:45 PM   #11
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Hate to hear stories like that but I think they are necessary to warn others and keep us on our toes. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 19 November 2007, 02:12 AM   #12
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This afternoon I visited the city for some Christmas shopping with my family, and of course visited a couple of AD's. One of the AD's I visited is a well known and respected multiple retailer in the UK for Fine Swiss timepieces. They also own authorised branded boutiques in London. I happen to know some of the staff very well and so popped in to have a chat. I asked one of the consultants (who i've known for some years) what he was wearing these days and whether he had sold on his Patek. (last time I saw him he was considering selling it) He grimaced and said he had had a problem. He had purchased the Patek from the company, they had bought it in from a long standing customer and indeed had had the watch in over number of years for servicing. The watch had been sent to London HQ for evaluation and then bought in. My friend then purchased it from them. Its worth mentioning that this retailer services all swiss brands in house. They claim there watchmakers are trained by the various watch houses etc. Anyway he deceided to send to Patek directly for a service and refurb before selling privately, only to be sent back stating the watch was a franken, the movement was genuine, but the case was not patek. As a result they refused to touch it. So there specialist buyer in london had been duped, the watch technitions had not noticed, indeed the previous owner had had it serviced and refurbished at the cost of £900 by this retailer. So moral of this story is, even professionals handling these pieces every day can be misled. As he said, he wish he hadent found out.

This is why I HATE Rolexes with ANY aftermarket additions!
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Old 19 November 2007, 04:25 AM   #13
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John: wow. scary. So, not to hijack your thread, but since you're telling us about Patek and obviously have a lot of experience with many high-end watches, can you tell us whether Patek's are a) rugged, and b) whether the manufacturer has a good service dep't, turn-around times, and where the servicing gets done?
thanks, dan
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Old 19 November 2007, 04:29 AM   #14
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This is why you should buy new if you don't have any experience dealing with used watches. and yes the "experts" have been known to make mistakes.
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Old 19 November 2007, 05:44 AM   #15
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John: wow. scary. So, not to hijack your thread, but since you're telling us about Patek and obviously have a lot of experience with many high-end watches, can you tell us whether Patek's are a) rugged, and b) whether the manufacturer has a good service dep't, turn-around times, and where the servicing gets done?
thanks, dan
Never had a patek, wouldent want one, unless it was offered foc. not my cuppa tea. Lovely pieces probably a little more exclusive than a rollie. sure someone here is better qualified to answer.
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Old 19 November 2007, 05:49 AM   #16
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Hate to hear stories like that but I think they are necessary to warn others and keep us on our toes. Thanks for sharing.
I agree with Ron 100%
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Old 19 November 2007, 11:44 AM   #17
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Grey dealers cannot possibly verify every Rolex that they have in inventory. My AD had a new customer come in and the customer decided to trade his 18K President for a new model of something or other. It turns out the President had a 12 year old refurbished case and a recently serviced movement and a refurbished bracelet. The customer had been fooled and so had the grey dealer he bought it from. The watch was of NO VALUE to the AD for obvious reasons.
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Old 19 November 2007, 11:52 AM   #18
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Rolex service centers themselves have certified several high dollar watches that were fake. Thus, no more Rolex authenticating.

This is why I now will only buy a watch with papers and look for the whole package. I will only buy from someone I know if possible.

I alway keep this fact in the back of my mind. There are approx. eleven fake Rolex watches for every authentic one made. =) maverick
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Old 19 November 2007, 11:54 AM   #19
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If you deal with Patek direct they are fantastic, there is a boutique in old bond street. Service is an average of 6-12 weeks depending what you take it in for. As for ruggedness, it is a Patek, i am sure it could take every day use and abuse, but would you want too??

All I have to say is pop in and pick up a catalogue, you get a hard covered book. There is nothing cheap with them they are the next step up from Rolex IMHO.
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Old 19 November 2007, 12:47 PM   #20
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As the old adage goes: "Not that all glitter is gold."
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Old 19 November 2007, 04:44 PM   #21
JJ Irani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baptistman View Post
This afternoon I visited the city for some Christmas shopping with my family, and of course visited a couple of AD's. One of the AD's I visited is a well known and respected multiple retailer in the UK for Fine Swiss timepieces. They also own authorised branded boutiques in London. I happen to know some of the staff very well and so popped in to have a chat. I asked one of the consultants (who i've known for some years) what he was wearing these days and whether he had sold on his Patek. (last time I saw him he was considering selling it) He grimaced and said he had had a problem. He had purchased the Patek from the company, they had bought it in from a long standing customer and indeed had had the watch in over number of years for servicing. The watch had been sent to London HQ for evaluation and then bought in. My friend then purchased it from them. Its worth mentioning that this retailer services all swiss brands in house. They claim there watchmakers are trained by the various watch houses etc. Anyway he deceided to send to Patek directly for a service and refurb before selling privately, only to be sent back stating the watch was a franken, the movement was genuine, but the case was not patek. As a result they refused to touch it. So there specialist buyer in london had been duped, the watch technitions had not noticed, indeed the previous owner had had it serviced and refurbished at the cost of £900 by this retailer. So moral of this story is, even professionals handling these pieces every day can be misled. As he said, he wish he hadent found out.
Moral of that story is pretty simple and straight-forward - Buy from an AD only.

Honestly, no matter how much you know and trust the seller, you can still never be 100% sure you are buying the real deal....for the simple reason that the seller himself might be getting duped without even knowing it.

Fakes out there are getting so damned good, it's actually no longer a joke....but in fact it's getting very, very scary.

It's now reached a stage where the ONLY way you can be 100% sure about the athenticity of all the well known brands, is by buying off an AD.....or JJ!!!
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