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Old 24 October 2020, 02:38 AM   #1
SpicyMikey
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moisture on glass

I've only had this watch for about 10 months. Its almost brand new but I saw a bit of condensation on the inside of the glass the other day after my watch was sitting on a table in my backyard in the sun. I'm in Florida so its still hot and steamy here. After a day back under normal conditions the condensation went away. There is no visible sign of water markings on the glass. Although I can't bet my life on it, I am certain I never left my crown unscrewed or even left loose. Yes, I have kept my watch on in the shower and pool during this time but thats nothing new with any of my watches.

So what do guys think? is this probably just "normal" moisture from the air around us trapped inside and steaming up from the heat, or does this seem like something more? If it was pool water (with high calcium levels) there would likely be staining. FYI: Watch is running steady and reliably.
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Old 24 October 2020, 03:12 AM   #2
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Not Normal and Not good.. It sounds like a gasket, caseback or crystal. I wouldn't take a chance in the pool. Have your AD or jeweler pressure test it.

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Old 24 October 2020, 11:14 PM   #3
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Good idea. At very least I will take it to my local guy and have him pressure test it. The condensation has still not returned.

I have never had this happen to me so I am still assuming it might be moisture from normal air humidity that then condensed under the high temperature with the watch sitting in the Sun for 2 hours. It was only a small area of condensation near the date window.

From experience (when i did screw up and let water in), I can tell you that tap water, and especially pool water, have a degree of dissolved solids in them that will leave staining on the glass after condensation dissipates. I see none of that so that's why I'm thinking it likely is moisture trapped from the air entering during winding, etc. Its VERY humid here in Central Florida most of the time.

I will also ask my local watchmaker what he thinks when I bring it to him to be pressure tested.

Thanks for your input

Mike
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Old 25 October 2020, 01:48 AM   #4
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Water vapor inside the watch means big trouble if not promptly totally overhauled. RUST inside is damaging to parts. Only a full service and NEW gaskets is called for.
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Old 25 October 2020, 02:19 AM   #5
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Whilst I would definitely recommend having a watchmaker look at it and test the water resistance, it is almost certainly nothing to worry about.

As you have stated, you live in a warm humid area, so if you have ever unscrewed the crown to set the time (which I’m willing to bet you have at least once ) then there will be humid air inside the case too.

As there tends to be plenty of A/C in Florida providing nice cool interiors, the constant shift from warm to cold is the perfect recipe for thermal shock, resulting in water vapour condensing on the glass.

So long as the vapour evaporates once the watch is acclimatised to whichever environment you bring it in to there aren’t normally any issues or damaged caused.

TL:DR your watch is almost certainly 100% fine

p.s. I’m preempting somebody saying “but the case is waterproof with the crown unscrewed”. Yes it is, under static laboratory conditions. But by manipulating the crown you interfere with the o-ring making a seal against the crown, thereby allowing air into and out of the case. Assuming the case is still water resistant, this is how you suddenly get humid air and condensation in a watch that hasn’t previously exhibited it.
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Old 25 October 2020, 03:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmaker View Post
Whilst I would definitely recommend having a watchmaker look at it and test the water resistance, it is almost certainly nothing to worry about.

As you have stated, you live in a warm humid area, so if you have ever unscrewed the crown to set the time (which I’m willing to bet you have at least once ) then there will be humid air inside the case too.

As there tends to be plenty of A/C in Florida providing nice cool interiors, the constant shift from warm to cold is the perfect recipe for thermal shock, resulting in water vapour condensing on the glass.

So long as the vapour evaporates once the watch is acclimatised to whichever environment you bring it in to there aren’t normally any issues or damaged caused.

TL:DR your watch is almost certainly 100% fine

p.s. I’m preempting somebody saying “but the case is waterproof with the crown unscrewed”. Yes it is, under static laboratory conditions. But by manipulating the crown you interfere with the o-ring making a seal against the crown, thereby allowing air into and out of the case. Assuming the case is still water resistant, this is how you suddenly get humid air and condensation in a watch that hasn’t previously exhibited it.
Thanks @watchmaker. I have to agree with you using just some common sense. This watch was not assembled in a vacuum. And I have certainly opened the Crown and wound it many times since I bought it. There MUST be H2O inside that case just because of the atmosphere we walk around in all day. I am not going to panic and rush this off to an RSC to be completely overhauled unless it starts acting up. But I will definitely take one of the other posters advice and get it pressure tested by my local trusted watchmaker. Thanks again everyone

Mike
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Old 25 October 2020, 09:10 AM   #7
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Any interior moisture that is enough for you to see is corrosion waiting to happen.
Nuff said.
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Old 25 October 2020, 09:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 214270Explorer View Post
Any interior moisture that is enough for you to see is corrosion waiting to happen.
Nuff said.
But I cannot see it anymore. I think that's the point, and the distinction. So I believe watchmaker is probably right. The watch was sitting in the Sun for 2 hours and the internal temperature of the components reached a very high temp. Then when I took the watch inside an air conditioned house the outside glass cooled off faster then the internal components and condensation occurred around the date window. Once the entire watch reached temperature balance, the condensation disappeared.



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Old 25 October 2020, 12:34 PM   #9
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Read the process Rolex uses to do pressure tests, it might shed some light on condensation on the inside
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Old 25 October 2020, 12:39 PM   #10
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I forgot the link


https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/un...stance-testing


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Old 25 October 2020, 05:48 PM   #11
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Reading the link would confirm that the writer has no understanding of this pressure test.

In a pressure bell if the crystal deflects ‘downwards’ under pressure and holds this deflection then the watch passes.
If there is no deflection then the watch fails.
There is no way the crystal can deflect upwards when the pressure inside the bell is increased because the pressure inside the bell can only be greater or equal to the internal case pressure.

I also find it difficult to understand why a watch case is tested without the movement inside ‘to be safe’ and then, when it passes, reassembled with the movement inside and not retested?

What if there is an issue with reassembly?

Surely the pressure test is to check the integrity of the final assembly not an interim test of just the case?


From the link:
To perform this first test, the dome is opened and the watch positioned horizontally on a carrier with a small probe resting on the crystal. The dome is sealed shut and air pressure inside the chamber is increased to the desired level, up to 10 bar, which is equivalent to about 100 meters of water pressure. As the air pressure increases, any leaks in the case will allow air to infiltrate the watch itself and deflect the crystal upwards slightly. The probe that is resting on the crystal detects this deflection and transmits a digital readout on the front of the machine, both in micrometers of deflection and a simple “Pass” or “Fail” verdict based on set criteria that differ depending on crystal type.
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Old 26 October 2020, 03:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andad View Post
Reading the link would confirm that the writer has no understanding of this pressure test.

In a pressure bell if the crystal deflects ‘downwards’ under pressure and holds this deflection then the watch passes.
If there is no deflection then the watch fails.
There is no way the crystal can deflect upwards when the pressure inside the bell is increased because the pressure inside the bell can only be greater or equal to the internal case pressure.

I also find it difficult to understand why a watch case is tested without the movement inside ‘to be safe’ and then, when it passes, reassembled with the movement inside and not retested?

What if there is an issue with reassembly?

Surely the pressure test is to check the integrity of the final assembly not an interim test of just the case?


From the link:
To perform this first test, the dome is opened and the watch positioned horizontally on a carrier with a small probe resting on the crystal. The dome is sealed shut and air pressure inside the chamber is increased to the desired level, up to 10 bar, which is equivalent to about 100 meters of water pressure. As the air pressure increases, any leaks in the case will allow air to infiltrate the watch itself and deflect the crystal upwards slightly. The probe that is resting on the crystal detects this deflection and transmits a digital readout on the front of the machine, both in micrometers of deflection and a simple “Pass” or “Fail” verdict based on set criteria that differ depending on crystal type.
I absolutely agree!! The concept that air would pass INTO the watch and bow the crystal forward is ludicrous! The fact is . . . that's why Helium release valves were invented! (to prevent the unavoidable He that DOES get inside the case during long, deep depth, dives, ... from suddenly popping the crystals OFF, during the ascent from the deep. Good catch, Sir.
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Old 26 October 2020, 07:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by SpicyMikey View Post
But I cannot see it anymore. I think that's the point, and the distinction...
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Old 26 October 2020, 07:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andad View Post
Reading the link would confirm that the writer has no understanding of this pressure test.

In a pressure bell if the crystal deflects ‘downwards’ under pressure and holds this deflection then the watch passes.
If there is no deflection then the watch fails.
There is no way the crystal can deflect upwards when the pressure inside the bell is increased because the pressure inside the bell can only be greater or equal to the internal case pressure.

I also find it difficult to understand why a watch case is tested without the movement inside ‘to be safe’ and then, when it passes, reassembled with the movement inside and not retested?

What if there is an issue with reassembly?

Surely the pressure test is to check the integrity of the final assembly not an interim test of just the case?


From the link:
To perform this first test, the dome is opened and the watch positioned horizontally on a carrier with a small probe resting on the crystal. The dome is sealed shut and air pressure inside the chamber is increased to the desired level, up to 10 bar, which is equivalent to about 100 meters of water pressure. As the air pressure increases, any leaks in the case will allow air to infiltrate the watch itself and deflect the crystal upwards slightly. The probe that is resting on the crystal detects this deflection and transmits a digital readout on the front of the machine, both in micrometers of deflection and a simple “Pass” or “Fail” verdict based on set criteria that differ depending on crystal type.
A HODINKEE article written by somebody who doesn’t fully understand what they are talking about? No chance

You’re assessment is spot on

To answer your point about testing after the movement is fitted; official service centres and any watchmaker worth their salt will test in water after the movement is fitted. As you said, there can be issues that materialise after your first test, so it is vital to test a second time.
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Old 26 October 2020, 07:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SeeDweller View Post
I absolutely agree!! The concept that air would pass INTO the watch and bow the crystal forward is ludicrous! The fact is . . . that's why Helium release valves were invented! (to prevent the unavoidable He that DOES get inside the case during long, deep depth, dives, ... from suddenly popping the crystals OFF, during the ascent from the deep. Good catch, Sir.
Sorry to be pedantic, but just want to clarify:

Helium doesn’t enter a watch case during a dive (no matter the depth or the duration), nor does a crystal pop off during the ascent phase due to trapped helium.

Helium can permeate a watch case while the diver is in a heliox saturation chamber and can blow out the crystal out during the decompression phase as a pressure differential develops between the trapped gas inside the watch and the reducing pressure in the sat chamber.
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Old 6 November 2020, 07:58 PM   #16
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Old 6 November 2020, 09:29 PM   #17
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I am not a technical person as far as watches go - but condensation should never appear inside a Rolex, no matter what the circumstances. The fact that you can no longer see it, is not really the point. Your watch needs checking and possibly new gaskets are needed.
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Old 6 November 2020, 09:37 PM   #18
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Just to put a resolution on my particular issue that started this thread, I took the watch to my local trusted watchmaker and he did a pressure test. Also opened it up and everything looked fine but he put it on a dryer for 30 minutes and applied reqpplied silicone to the gaskets

Mike
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Old 6 November 2020, 09:48 PM   #19
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I am not a technical person as far as watches go - but condensation should never appear inside a Rolex, no matter what the circumstances. The fact that you can no longer see it, is not really the point. Your watch needs checking and possibly new gaskets are needed.
My friend, we don't live on the moon. There is water in everyone's watch. It's in the air. That's just a fact. It's more a question of degrees than a yes no question. Using that as a basis, we can reasonably question whether having moisture show up on the inside of the glass after the watch sat in the Sun on a picnic table for 2 hours, is normal or not. In fact that's why I started this thread to get some opinions.

In the end, after bringing it to the watchmaker and having him inspect things it appears it is not an indication of excess moisture inside the watch. It was just a result of the internal air heating up to the point where the relative humidity reached 100% on the surface of the glass as it cooled after bringing the watch back inside the air conditioned house.

I admit it was the 1st time I had ever seen that. But in the end, it proved to not be an indicator of anything wrong. They pressure tested it, opened it up and did a thorough inspection, and then applied fresh silicone lubricant to the gaskets and closed it back up. All through this process my watch still kept almost perfect time with less than 1 second gained per week.

Mike
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Old 7 November 2020, 09:08 PM   #20
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put a ice cube on ANY wr watch for 30 sec fog will appear under the glass....the KEY is the vapor/fog will go away in a few seconds after removing the ice cube......IF the vapor does not go away your watch is not wr anymore
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Old 8 November 2020, 08:52 AM   #21
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This is an interesting thread. I always thought any visible condensation on the inside crystal was a sign that "waterproofness" (as Rolex says) was lost. But the logic/physics of the responses above make me think otherwise. It seems (since there's water in the air inside and outside of the case) it would solely depend on a major temperature difference inside vs outside the watch. Clever. Still sucks though. I'm glad mine hasn't had this happen.
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