Price increase?

[macrowatch]

From to top 1% of global wealth as target audience to now the .095%. Squidgames/hungergames/battle royale watch collection style.

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by thecrownprince

To be fair, 5 years ago 15400 can be bought for $15k-$16k in any dial on the second market:

Now the 15510 is $70k grey - so $26k is still a bargain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Don't think they are selling anywhere close to 70$

Hopefully the spread between retail and grey gets so marginal that playing games with the AD will not be needed and you can go straight to the grey and get the watch TODAY.

January 2023 another 5%

[thecrownprince]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Don't think they are selling anywhere close to 70$

Hopefully the spread between retail and grey gets so marginal that playing games with the AD will not be needed and you can go straight to the grey and get the watch TODAY.

January 2023 another 5%

For an anniversary piece? I think they’re there, or close. Not that it matters as I would never pay over retail. But the point I’m making is whether the price go up a few thousand or not, you’re walking out with a nice bonus value so let’s not get caught up in price increases unless it’s 15-20%.

My Lamborghini order increased $25,000 (overall MSRP and options increase) and while it sucks, I’m just happy to get an allocation at all.

The good thing is if anyone don’t like the retail price, they can choose to simply shop at Rolex, Patek, Vacheron, etc - so many watch houses to enjoy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[dmash]

Originally Posted by thecrownprince

To be fair, 5 years ago 15400 can be bought for $15k-$16k in any dial on the second market:

Now the 15510 is $70k grey - so $26k is still a bargain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Absolutely not, 15510 is mid 40s brand new EASILY found right now (sans blue and green) and has been trending downward the last two months, who knows by end of year where we're at. A lot of guys keep forgetting that a simple Chrono24 check isn't market, those are simply (lofty) asks.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by messikens

Is this now rhe new norm? Twice-yearly increases of ~5%?!

I mean don't get me wrong, if you're in the market for an AP chances are you can handle it but still... On a 25k watch that's an additional 5k after two years....!

Yeah it's a bit much.

Some other guys claim that 'AP buyers are so well off that prices increases don't matter' but I strongly disagree...based on my opinion as well as what I've had friends state. Take the Offshore for example. You're talking near $50k out the door for a rubber strap steel chrono. That's starting to become a particularly large ask when one starts to shop around. Granted there's nothing really comparable in 'haute' horology if you're wanting that chunky Offshore look, but still.

Royal Oaks were under retail just 4-5 years ago, I hope AP doesn't push too hard on the increases to where demand is lost and we could return to that. They've got to find a happy medium to maintain a healthy image. They know 10x more than me though.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by dmash

Yeah it's a bit much.

Some other guys claim that 'AP buyers are so well off that prices increases don't matter' but I strongly disagree...based on my opinion as well as what I've had friends state. Take the Offshore for example. You're talking near $50k out the door for a rubber strap steel chrono. That's starting to become a particularly large ask in my opinion when you shop around for what else you can get for that. Granted there's nothing really comparable in 'haute' horology if you're wanting that chunky Offshore look, but still.

Royal Oaks were under retail just 4-5 years ago, I hope AP doesn't push too hard on the increases to where demand is lost and we could return to that. They've got to find a happy medium to maintain a healthy image. They know 10x more than me though.

I completely agree with you. I am still on the list for a taupe ROO but it's getting harder and harder tk swallow - especially given that it's $46k now out the door and as you said doesn't even include one of the main draws of the watch, the bracelet itself.

I'm debating whether I should drop it and return to asking for a Chrono and "save" myself a nice $7k... Should I ever get it.

Funny thing is the ROOs MSRP have now reached parity with Chrono24, believe it or not. There's a taupe one with 3 straps (including a deployment clasp one, I.e. Another 2.5k) for 42.5k. So basically it's now becoming cheaper again to buy Grey than the boutique, at least for select watches...

[dmash]

Originally Posted by messikens

I completely agree with you. I am still on the list for a taupe ROO but it's getting harder and harder tk swallow - especially given that it's $46k now out the door and as you said doesn't even include one of the main draws of the watch, the bracelet itself.

I'm debating whether I should drop it and return to asking for a Chrono and "save" myself a nice $7k... Should I ever get it.

Funny thing is the ROOs MSRP have now reached parity with Chrono24, believe it or not. There's a taupe one with 3 straps (including a deployment clasp one, I.e. Another 2.5k) for 42.5k. So basically it's now becoming cheaper again to buy Grey than the boutique, at least for select watches...

Don't want to bust your bubble further but the new offshores have been sold UNDER $40k recently. Full sets, new. That's 15% off out the door price now. Chrono24 is usually the higher end of asks, real watch sales are lower than there, consistently. There's also a black one, lightly used, listed for $39.9 OBO on eBay. You can probably get that close to $35-$36 for a direct deal.

I actually was wanting the taupe ROO as well! However, I recently tried it on and something wasn't sitting right with me on it, so I'm passing instead. The colors are incredible though, that's the best ROO AP has done in recent years in my opinion.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by dmash

Don't want to bust your bubble further but the new offshores have been sold UNDER $40k recently. Full sets, new. That's 15% off out the door price now. Chrono24 is usually the higher end of asks, real watch sales are lower than there, consistently. There's also a black one, lightly used, listed for $39.9 OBO on eBay. You can probably get that close to $35-$36 for a direct deal.

I actually was wanting the taupe ROO as well! However, I recently tried it on and something wasn't sitting right with me on it, so I'm passing instead. The colors are incredible though, that's the best ROO AP has done in recent years in my opinion.

Oh I'm sure they are. I'm not important enough to be on Moda so I am just citing Chrono24 which I know is always 10%+ higher and even that is not at MSRP levels any longer but inching below.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather maintain my boutique relationship but with continued increases and still Iittle availability it's becoming hard to justify.

I'm not looking to flip any watches anyway, but if it's a matter of waiting 12-18 months for a watch at MSRP vs getting it immediately at -15%, you start to wonder....

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by messikens

I completely agree with you. I am still on the list for a taupe ROO but it's getting harder and harder tk swallow - especially given that it's $46k now out the door and as you said doesn't even include one of the main draws of the watch, the bracelet itself.

I'm debating whether I should drop it and return to asking for a Chrono and "save" myself a nice $7k... Should I ever get it.

Funny thing is the ROOs MSRP have now reached parity with Chrono24, believe it or not. There's a taupe one with 3 straps (including a deployment clasp one, I.e. Another 2.5k) for 42.5k. So basically it's now becoming cheaper again to buy Grey than the boutique, at least for select watches...

Wow, I’d jump on that. The deployant clasp is expensive by itself! If you don’t take it I might! And I have one already! Lol.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by messikens

Oh I'm sure they are. I'm not important enough to be on Moda so I am just citing Chrono24 which I know is always 10%+ higher and even that is not at MSRP levels any longer but inching below.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather maintain my boutique relationship but with continued increases and still Iittle availability it's becoming hard to justify.

I'm not looking to flip any watches anyway, but if it's a matter of waiting 12-18 months for a watch at MSRP vs getting it immediately at -15%, you start to wonder....

It's just nonsensical to me AP raised US prices. I don't get it. Dollar is so much stronger than the other currencies, it's not like there was a price raise to level prices across the world. Raising US means there's still a large gap between what I'd pay in UK/EU than here. but I digress

[DJ4]

Originally Posted by dmash

Price increase official for USA, just saw on AP's site. Seems ~5% increase across the board (at least for steel):

ROO- $42.6k
ROC- $35.6k
16202- $34.9k
15510- $26.6k
15550- $25.3k

Crazy that a ROO is ~$46k out the door now. Seems like not that long ago I remember Vampire/Elephant being ~$26k!

Maybe you know what was the price of the 15510 before the price increase?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jcatral14]

Originally Posted by messikens

I completely agree with you. I am still on the list for a taupe ROO but it's getting harder and harder tk swallow - especially given that it's $46k now out the door and as you said doesn't even include one of the main draws of the watch, the bracelet itself.

I'm debating whether I should drop it and return to asking for a Chrono and "save" myself a nice $7k... Should I ever get it.

Funny thing is the ROOs MSRP have now reached parity with Chrono24, believe it or not. There's a taupe one with 3 straps (including a deployment clasp one, I.e. Another 2.5k) for 42.5k. So basically it's now becoming cheaper again to buy Grey than the boutique, at least for select watches...

RO Diver went up $1600 to $29k. Waiting for allocation but damn, making me think twice. Got a call for the PP 6119 a week ago but passed. If offered now, I'd seriously consider that instead

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by DJ4

Maybe you know what was the price of the 15510 before the price increase?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

$25.3k if I recall correctly

[messikens]

Originally Posted by dmash

It's just nonsensical to me AP raised US prices. I don't get it. Dollar is so much stronger than the other currencies, it's not like there was a price raise to level prices across the world. Raising US means there's still a large gap between what I'd pay in UK/EU than here. but I digress

Totally with you. I guess FB goes out having established the ultra luxury path now. I'm just beginning to wonder when (if ever) it may backfire....

For me who is at the beginning of the AP journey but still "on a budget" (I.e. I am not ordering Ferraris etc like other members here), I wonder if I am the right customer in the medium run. I guess if you have to ask you aren't...

Bit of a shame though, I'd love to own a few more pieces but not with double -yearly increases, it will become unjustifiable (to me at least).

@DJ : yes, took a screenshot yesterday, 15510 was at 25.3k, so just a tad more than 5%. ROC was 33.8 before

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

$25.3k if I recall correctly

Yup! The 37mm took on the 41mm price of $25.3

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by dmash

Yeah it's a bit much.

Some other guys claim that 'AP buyers are so well off that prices increases don't matter' but I strongly disagree...based on my opinion as well as what I've had friends state. Take the Offshore for example. You're talking near $50k out the door for a rubber strap steel chrono. That's starting to become a particularly large ask when one starts to shop around. Granted there's nothing really comparable in 'haute' horology if you're wanting that chunky Offshore look, but still.

Royal Oaks were under retail just 4-5 years ago, I hope AP doesn't push too hard on the increases to where demand is lost and we could return to that. They've got to find a happy medium to maintain a healthy image. They know 10x more than me though.

AP PUSHED HARD BEFORE
RAISE PRICES ON GOLD PIECES ONLY TO REDUCE THE PRICE LATER

[DJ4]

Crazy how strong the brand is!

In the end of the day, real AP buyers population will not cry so hard about the price hike.

Not a drama for those who can easily spend 25k-50k and won’t feel it.

[psm11]

Originally Posted by messikens

Totally with you. I guess FB goes out having established the ultra luxury path now. I'm just beginning to wonder when (if ever) it may backfire....

For me who is at the beginning of the AP journey but still "on a budget" (I.e. I am not ordering Ferraris etc like other members here), I wonder if I am the right customer in the medium run. I guess if you have to ask you aren't...

Bit of a shame though, I'd love to own a few more pieces but not with double -yearly increases, it will become unjustifiable (to me at least).

@DJ : yes, took a screenshot yesterday, 15510 was at 25.3k, so just a tad more than 5%. ROC was 33.8 before

I am with you. Trying to get my first piece and do not have an endless budget. Wondering if its best to just give up on the boutique route and just go grey and get a used ROO or 15400. I would love to be a lifelong AP client, but at this juncture I am not able to buy an almost $50k ROO just to maybe get the watch I want.

[psm11]

Originally Posted by DJ4

Crazy how strong the brand is!

In the end of the day, real AP buyers population will not cry so hard about the price hike.

Not a drama for those who can easily spend 25k-50k and won’t feel it.

MAYBE. When these pieces were going to for 2, 3, 4x their MSRP no one minded the price increase. It may be a whole different story now and if the secondary market continues its downward trend. Like a few have mentioned on here, it is now cheaper to get a new ROO on the secondary market than at retail. I saw one the other day on MODA for like $38k. If you want to be a long time AP client then I guess you can justify the almost $10k price difference and long wait if you go boutique, but there will be a lot of folks who can't justify it just go to the secondary market and get their watch in a few days.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by psm11

MAYBE. When these pieces were going to for 2, 3, 4x their MSRP no one minded the price increase. It may be a whole different story now and if the secondary market continues its downward trend. Like a few have mentioned on here, it is now cheaper to get a new ROO on the secondary market than at retail. I saw one the other day on MODA for like $38k. If you want to be a long time AP client then I guess you can justify the almost $10k price difference and long wait if you go boutique, but there will be a lot of folks who can't justify it just go to the secondary market and get their watch in a few days.

I guess question for the ones that know: would AP mind? I.e. If the watch us registered under your account in any case and it's just a purchase, doesn't that show your interest in the brand regardless? Or does it HAVE to be bought from the boutique to get / maintain your purchase history?

[psm11]

Originally Posted by messikens

I guess question for the ones that know: would AP mind? I.e. If the watch us registered under your account in any case and it's just a purchase, doesn't that show your interest in the brand regardless? Or does it HAVE to be bought from the boutique to get / maintain your purchase history?

Really good question. I'd argue that if you go grey and pay over retail you make it clear that you are not a flipper and that you truly love the brand as you paid a steep premium to own a piece. This is why I think it would be great if AP had a pre-owned program where you could buy preowned pieces (even at secondary prices) and count it towards your purchase history.

I think the reality is that if the money isn't going into APs pocket it isn't going to make much of an impact on your chances of getting an allocation.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by psm11

Really good question. I'd argue that if you go grey and pay over retail you make it clear that you are not a flipper and that you truly love the brand as you paid a steep premium to own a piece. This is why I think it would be great if AP had a pre-owned program where you could buy preowned pieces (even at secondary prices) and count it towards your purchase history.

I think the reality is that if the money isn't going into APs pocket it isn't going to make much of an impact on your chances of getting an allocation.

I guess... Although it would show that you currently have / own more than one piece and hence you're interested in the brand more so than someone just wanting a 15510 for example...

But I assume you're right, since the profit doesn't go to AP in the first instance

[noobs]

code 11.59 chronos are now $3k more expensive... as an introductory watch to the brand, that's a tough pill to swallow

[mykii]

Originally Posted by noobs

code 11.59 chronos are now $3k more expensive... as an introductory watch to the brand, that's a tough pill to swallow

The problem is people see it as an introductory watch, when in reality its not. Code's are hard to get these days, and per the internal hierarchy of models and pricing, chronos are higher than the 3-handers. Naturally, most demand concentrates on the RO 3 hander models in SS, and that's for many reasons.

Frankly, I think the Code 11.59 chrono is probably the best of the lot of the Codes.

Also, yes, price increases suck. But this is an ultra-elite brand, literally positioning to the top 1% or higher. The cost is the price of entry. Is what it is.

To keep things in context, $25k for a 37mm RO is actually not a terrible deal vs. $40k that Patek now asks for a 5227 or any other 3-hand calatrava model with date. For what I think is the absolute best SS, high-end, sports watch ever made, on relative terms the price is a lot but isn't unconscionable yet. It's actually a pretty good deal IMO. I can easily see ROs reaching far higher retail prices in the years to come.

[macrowatch]

While I can stomach current prices, the current strategy of concurrent production increase with price increase is starting to feel like Panerai 2.0. And the while price is the headline, the underlying risk has more to do with product line diversity than the price itself.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by mykii

The problem is people see it as an introductory watch, when in reality its not. Code's are hard to get these days, and per the internal hierarchy of models and pricing, chronos are higher than the 3-handers. Naturally, most demand concentrates on the RO 3 hander models in SS, and that's for many reasons.

Frankly, I think the Code 11.59 chrono is probably the best of the lot of the Codes.

Also, yes, price increases suck. But this is an ultra-elite brand, literally positioning to the top 1% or higher. The cost is the price of entry. Is what it is.

To keep things in context, $25k for a 37mm RO is actually not a terrible deal vs. $40k that Patek now asks for a 5227 or any other 3-hand calatrava model with date. For what I think is the absolute best SS, high-end, sports watch ever made, on relative terms the price is a lot but isn't unconscionable yet. It's actually a pretty good deal IMO. I can easily see ROs reaching far higher retail prices in the years to come.

Fully agree with all of that ^^^^

[RODODD]

In Italy +7%

[andreas0411]

You think that would substantially affect grey market for 15300/15400st??

[mykii]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

While I can stomach current prices, the current strategy of concurrent production increase with price increase is starting to feel like Panerai 2.0. And the while price is the headline, the underlying risk has more to do with product line diversity than the price itself.

People have been saying this forever, yet even existing clients can't get a 50th anniversary allocation.

Something tells me AP is going to be ok.

[EdwardC]

It starts taking the fun out of the collecting experience. Eventually it will just differentiate the brand further that only elite people can afford - or willing to spend - such an amount of a watch. AP is definitely capitalizing their profit as much as possible.