Price increase

[kronomentro]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

Raising MSRP prices on the 5711 and 5712 is totally logical. Not upping production, frustrating legitimate customers and foregoing the profits PP could make on selling a well thought out number of incremental units at the higher prices versus putting watches into the market that are not demanded and don't sell is not logical to me. Playing the exclusivity card indefinitely on very expensive stainless watches is a risky strategy IMO. Times change, tastes change, some people move on. My

i was once told by an Hermes sales associate literally "We are all here because of the Birkin" meaning that this one bag model is the lifeblood/cash cow of a company with hundreds of products. I wonder if PP is similar in some effect.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by aagajjar

i was once told by an Hermes sales associate literally "We are all here because of the Birkin" meaning that this one bag model is the lifeblood/cash cow of a company with hundreds of products. I wonder if PP is similar in some effect.

That’d be a steep fall for Patek. The Birkin is an equisite bag and still one of the jewels of Hermes’ collections. The steel nautilus is a nice sports watch that has been hyped beyond all reason. Anyone who would pick one as the top 15 of all Patek’s watches in the last 20 years is nuts. Money aside, of course.

[kronomentro]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

That’d be a steep fall for Patek. The Birkin is an equisite bag and still one of the jewels of Hermes’ collections. The steel nautilus is a nice sports watch that has been hyped beyond all reason. Anyone who would pick one as the top 15 of all Patek’s watches in the last 20 years is nuts. Money aside, of course.

Well certainly the Birkin is superb but I also wouldnt take anything away from the quality of the Nautilus case/bracelet finishing. The movement is also a workhorse although certainly not as beautifully decorated as Langes. I think the comparison is valid. Hermes produces many many more exquisite products than a standard Togo leather Birkin. But, this is the model that has an accessible price point similar to the Nautilus. Our wives may feel its ridiculous to say a 30k watch is accessible but we could say the same for a 15k leather bag. Thats the power of a brand

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by aagajjar

Well certainly the Birkin is superb but I also wouldnt take anything away from the quality of the Nautilus case/bracelet finishing. The movement is also a workhorse although certainly not as beautifully decorated as Langes. I think the comparison is valid. Hermes produces many many more exquisite products than a standard Togo leather Birkin. But, this is the model that has an accessible price point similar to the Nautilus. Our wives may feel its ridiculous to say a 30k watch is accessible but we could say the same for a 15k leather bag. Thats the power of a brand

Not to go too far on this detour, but I think most people associate Hermès with Birkins, and aside from their high end jewelry, Birkins are their most expensive products.

Patek - at least until this year - was associated with complications and grand comps. I don’t think most collectors or most Sterns would connect or want the brand connected to a steel sports watch as a primary reference. I realize that reads snobby, but it’s not meant to.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Not to go too far on this detour, but I think most people associate Hermès with Birkins, and aside from their high end jewelry, Birkins are their most expensive products.

Patek - at least until this year - was associated with complications and grand comps. I don’t think most collectors or most Sterns would connect or want the brand connected to a steel sports watch as a primary reference. I realize that reads snobby, but it’s not meant to.

Correct the 5711 is NOT the flagship. It’s the 718 to the gt3RS that is the 5270 to the 918 that is the minute repeater GCs etc.

(I feel like everytime someone does a car comparison with watches they should have to put 20 bucks in the jar. By Christmas we will have enough for a 5711 giveaway )

[kronomentro]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

Not to go too far on this detour, but I think most people associate Hermès with Birkins, and aside from their high end jewelry, Birkins are their most expensive products.

Patek - at least until this year - was associated with complications and grand comps. I don’t think most collectors or most Sterns would connect or want the brand connected to a steel sports watch as a primary reference. I realize that reads snobby, but it’s not meant to.

My friend we are both long past snobby! I suppose we should just happily own it ;) Good point though about the Birkin being essentially their most expensive product compared to the scarves etc. The Nautilus is certainly more of the "entry" level PP in terms of price but perhaps this is to do with historically how much the (grand) complications have increased in price. When the Nautilus premiered wasnt it absurdly expensive for a steel watch and not too too far off the price of a (grand) complication? As time has gone on, PP has increased their prices but I suppose there is presumably some intrinsic cap on how much a person is willing to pay for steel sport watch? Doesnt feel like it I know when 5711As are going for 35-40k but my god look at the retail prices of the (grand) complications!

[kronomentro]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Correct the 5711 is NOT the flagship. It’s the 718 to the gt3RS that is the 5270 to the 918 that is the minute repeater GCs etc.

(I feel like everytime someone does a car comparison with watches they should have to put 20 bucks in the jar. By Christmas we will have enough for a 5711 giveaway )

Agree that the 5711 isnt the flagship for PP esp in consideration of the technical superiority of the grand complications but I do believe its the standard calf leather Birkin/Cayman while the albino crocodile Birkin is more the Perpetual Calendar Chronograph/GT3, if the analogies all make sense

[kronomentro]

Of course Thierry Stern is mighty aware of what we are all talking about Re: his interview on Hodinkee a few years back when he was asked to consider the Nautilus.

"A few years ago, I would've said the Calatrava, but now I would say the Nautilus. The Nautilus is a very strong watch. 60 percent of the clients here are wearing one which is great, but it’s dangerous too. We don’t want to become a one watch brand, so I control the production. We could easily sell twice as many steel Nautiluses as we do. Now you can get them on the second hand market for more than the retail price because of this."

[gmstevenson]

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[tyler1980]

If its US only, i suspect its going to affect the UK negatively. UK pricing in USD is already attractive vs US pricing + sales tax (not including VAT refunds). This would further make the UK a more attractive place to source these references and make the scarcity here worse. This was corrected partially by the UK price rise last year, but this will create the imbalance again.

The UK price imbalance with Rolex would be the case study here.

5172 is $35,600 in the UK (including VAT), in the US with tax its going to be $43k (approx.)

[Busyboy]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

If its US only, i suspect its going to affect the UK negatively. UK pricing in USD is already attractive vs US pricing + sales tax (not including VAT refunds). This would further make the UK a more attractive place to source these references and make the scarcity here worse. This was corrected partially by the UK price rise last year, but this will create the imbalance again.

The UK price imbalance with Rolex would be the case study here.

5172 is $35,600 in the UK (including VAT), in the US with tax its going to be $43k (approx.)

Sure we'll follow asap

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by Busyboy

Sure we'll follow asap

Indeed it wasn t a general PI just adjustment of the costs of these 2models it will be done all markets just the information flow is better from the US i guess.

[SpeedyTuomas]

Is this US only or global? I have a 5712 but these prices are getting too high for steel models imho.

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by aagajjar

Of course Thierry Stern is mighty aware of what we are all talking about Re: his interview on Hodinkee a few years back when he was asked to consider the Nautilus.

"A few years ago, I would've said the Calatrava, but now I would say the Nautilus. The Nautilus is a very strong watch. 60 percent of the clients here are wearing one which is great, but it’s dangerous too. We don’t want to become a one watch brand, so I control the production. We could easily sell twice as many steel Nautiluses as we do. Now you can get them on the second hand market for more than the retail price because of this."

A member previously shared an interview in which TS speculated on the discontinuation of the existing Nautilus range, which in its current form has run rather long relative to normal life cycles. I am a little surprised that PP would announce such a stark price increase solely on the 5711/1A and 5712/1A at this juncture for 1 March 2018 implementation, with pricing on the broader collection to be advised at Baselworld which starts on the 22 March 2018. What is the logic of doing this in this manner? I wonder then if TS is perhaps about to discontinue or run out the 5711/1A and 5712/1A ranges and if this is a move to ensure that those final pieces are allocated to the brands strongest clients and at higher margins for the benefit of PP.

In any case, I certainly believe a similar price increase is coming for the 5711/1R, which would then be in line with the pricing for the AP RO 15202OR.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

A member previously shared an interview in which TS speculated on the discontinuation of the existing Nautilus range, which in its current form has run rather long relative to normal life cycles. I am a little surprised that PP would announce such a stark price increase solely on the 5711/1A and 5712/1A at this juncture for 1 March 2018 implementation, with pricing on the broader collection to be advised at Baselworld which starts on the 22 March 2018. What is the logic of doing this in this manner? I wonder then if TS is perhaps about to discontinue or run out the 5711/1A and 5712/1A ranges and if this is a move to ensure that those final pieces are allocated to the brands strongest clients and at higher margins for the benefit of PP.

In any case, I certainly believe a similar price increase is coming for the 5711/1R, which would then be in line with the pricing for the AP RO 15202OR.

it could also be that they are trying to increase demand in the other watches in the nautilus range by making them a better deal in comparison. The demand is already there for the SS 11 and 12 so people are not as price sensitive anyway. By making a 5726 or a 5711/1R comparatively a better deal than a 5711 or 5712 and then you have more takers for those watches too as that demand isnt as strong, but now its a bargain choice.

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it could also be that they are trying to increase demand in the other watches in the nautilus range by making them a better deal in comparison. The demand is already there for the SS 11 and 12 so people are not as price sensitive anyway. By making a 5726 or a 5711/1R comparatively a better deal than a 5711 or 5712 and then you have more takers for those watches too.

Yes; this is an interesting take and certainly another possibility. But it leaves the question of why now? Why not wait a few months and do it all together? I wonder if these next few days will really help them test the water...

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Yes; this is an interesting take and certainly another possibility. But it leaves the question of why now? Why not wait a few months and do it all together? I wonder if these next few days will really help them test the water...

the secondary market has gone nuts in the past 6 months. Maybe its a reaction to that as they know people are willing to pay that much. The premiums have gone past the normal recently for sure.

The bigger the secondary market spread the more people are lining up to buy at retail. Secondary prices will rise but i doubt it will be the same percent as the retail increase. Keeping the spread down helps lower demand at AD's and makes it less attractive for speculators

[walds11]

Originally Posted by Chute

This sucks. I was finally working myself up to spend $25k for a white 5711 if I could find one at msrp. Now that it’s almost thirty, I’m tapping out. It would’ve been nice to own a Patek but it’s not gonna happen now.

I sort of feel the same way, but I’m going to let my deposit ride for the 5711 blue and stay on the list. Almost 30 large is a hard pill to swallow for a SS sports watch with a date, but I really like this watch. And even with the stiff 20% increase, the watch will still be in high demand and grey market values will still be through the roof.

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

A member previously shared an interview in which TS speculated on the discontinuation of the existing Nautilus range, which in its current form has run rather long relative to normal life cycles. I am a little surprised that PP would announce such a stark price increase solely on the 5711/1A and 5712/1A at this juncture for 1 March 2018 implementation, with pricing on the broader collection to be advised at Baselworld which starts on the 22 March 2018. What is the logic of doing this in this manner? I wonder then if TS is perhaps about to discontinue or run out the 5711/1A and 5712/1A ranges and if this is a move to ensure that those final pieces are allocated to the brands strongest clients and at higher margins for the benefit of PP.

In any case, I certainly believe a similar price increase is coming for the 5711/1R, which would then be in line with the pricing for the AP RO 15202OR.

I’m surprised by the timing of the price increase as well. Price increase 3/1 on just these two models and Baselworld starts 3/22? What is the reasoning?

[Jetkopite]

I spoke with my good friend at the Geneva Salon and indeed this price increase is happening from 1st March. He told me the price has remained the same on these pieces for last 8 years so Patek felt these pieces were undervalued. Also production numbers will remain low and not go up to profit more.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

I spoke with my good friend at the Geneva Salon and indeed this price increase is happening from 1st March. He told me the price has remained the same on these pieces for last 8 years so Patek felt these pieces were undervalued. Also production numbers will remain low and not go up to profit more.


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depends on which market you are talking about some have had a few price increases some lass than six months ago. If talking switzerland and in CHF that sounds about right (dont know for sure), but that would imply a worldwide price rise not just US specific.

[Jetkopite]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

depends on which market you are talking about some have had a few price increases some lass than six months ago. If talking switzerland and in CHF that sounds about right (dont know for sure), but that would imply a worldwide price rise not just US specific.

Yes I believe it’s a worldwide increase..


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[benlee]

Anyone knows if the 5711-1R has also increased accordingly?

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by bobernet

This is a smart move. I hope Rolex does something similar.

For anyone not into guitars, Jim Olson is one of the top custom builders in the world. He might even be the Rolex of acoustic guitars.

Some years ago, Jim got peeved that people would order a guitar, wait a year to receive it, and immediately sell it on the secondary market for significantly more than they paid him. He decided if the market was valuing his product so much higher, then he should raise prices to meet the market rate and keep the profit for himself rather than for the flippers.

His used guitars now trade on the secondary market at or just slightly below his retail pricing for new.

That seems like a pretty good place to be for Rolex and Patek owners rather than the AD lottery and multi-year waits we have today.


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Yeah I think this is nothing more than just a reflection of market price. Lots of models still sits at ADs and doesn't move, so I doubt there will an increase on all the models.

[FlyinM3]

Originally Posted by benlee

Anyone knows if the 5711-1R has also increased accordingly?

I am curious about this too...

[Kaapu]

So Guys if you are happily on the waiting list for these models, are you planning to stay or ask to be removed after this price increase?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Kaapu

So Guys if you are happily on the waiting list for these models, are you planning to stay or ask to be removed after this price increase?

depends on which models we are talking about, as im skeptical that its limited to only two models. The watch im waiting for, i would absolutely walk away with a 20% increase.

I'm not paying over 60k USD retail for a SS nautilus, no way.

[Russell996]

Sensible move, increase price to try to cut demand for the SS pieces and move buyers onto PM pieces.

Now enforce even more strictly the restriction for overseas buyers sourcing from the UK and it would be perfect.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

depends on which models we are talking about, as im skeptical that its limited to only two models. The watch im waiting for, i would absolutely walk away with a 20% increase.

I'm not paying over 60k USD retail for a SS nautilus, no way.

I'm walking away. Yes, the grey market has spoken and priced the 5712/1A at 40K, but the watch was worth at most MSRP to me. At the new MSRP I'll do just fine without one.

[LitzDoc]

I have never considered a SS Patek(thats what Rolex is for) so I don’t follow the Nautilus market at all. It sounds like the speculators have driven up prices and PP wants a piece of the pie. For these prices you guys should consider a LNIB 5146. These annual calendar watches are awesome and a great value preowned. Then use the difference and buy a SS Rolex.
I would not get sucked into The nautilus hype; its too costly. Not enough value in that watch.


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[HorologyK]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it could also be that they are trying to increase demand in the other watches in the nautilus range by making them a better deal in comparison. The demand is already there for the SS 11 and 12 so people are not as price sensitive anyway. By making a 5726 or a 5711/1R comparatively a better deal than a 5711 or 5712 and then you have more takers for those watches too as that demand isnt as strong, but now its a bargain choice.

Anyone willing to pay 40K for a new 5711 would cause me to raise prices also. They could’ve gone higher than they did. The depreciating USD also tells me Rolex probably isn’t far behind.


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