Fantastic write up of recent Patek factory tour

[martinr]

Originally Posted by subgreen

I call bullshit on that article….I visited the factory 2-years ago as our company is a supplier to them( can’t say what due to NDA) and they wouldn’t disclose anything about dealers or knowledge that they buy on the grey market to trap dealers…..that’s not how Patek operates. And the 4-6 months per dial is complete crap….I’ll never be able to own one of these great watches but, I love the watch and history of Patek.

I also went on a collectors tour. The article is accurate and the guy that wrote it was a member here at one time. Nothing made up or “bullshit” about it.

[Toffeeman]

How to get into such tour

[martinr]

Originally Posted by Toffeeman

How to get into such tour

Buy a lot of watches from your AD. It’s by invitation.

[Chelsea1986]

Originally Posted by martinr

Buy a lot of watches from your AD. It’s by invitation.

Is this the case. Would one need to be buying GC to get on a tour and been buying for say 5+ years

[Seo]

Wow what an accurate write up. I was also fortunate enough to go on one. There are two unfortunate consequences of this tour. One I put on 5kg of food and drink weight, two all my watch budget has now basically been allocated to patek.


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[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by Chelsea1986

Is this the case. Would one need to be buying GC to get on a tour and been buying for say 5+ years

It really depends on the AD as some huge ADs with a long client list with deep pockets are quite different from small ADs in smaller cities.

Most ADs have special events throughout the year. Do you get invited to these events? Does the store owner and/or manager know you by name? Have you been a steady customer for many years without history of flipping watches?

I believe the above questions help determine how valued a client you are to the AD and if they would consider extending an invite to the Patek factory tour.

[vliberman]

I am not sure how this is complimentary to Patek. One saw CNC machines and hand finishing at the final stage. Exactly what Rolex does for 1/5th of the price.

The whole idea of grey market and how Patek is fighting it is laughable. Patek started as a grey mkt dealer by purchasing in the secondary. Just think about it!

[321Forever]

I really enjoyed reading about the tour and how PP treats some of its customers (VVIPs I guess). It gives PP the opportunity to help attendees understand why, despite their purchase history, they might not be able to get their hands on a hot new piece. The luxury goods industry can be hard to participate in, even if you do have the discretionary cash on hand.

Looking at everyone else, there probably aren't a lot of watch enthusiasts who can drop $40K on an entry level watch that is immediately worth 60-70% on the used market, and then hope that subsequent purchases will get them a better piece that will hold value or gain in value. I don't think Patek is trying to reduce its customer base, but it also seems like they don't want demand to far exceed supply, too.

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

I am not sure how this is complimentary to Patek. One saw CNC machines and hand finishing at the final stage. Exactly what Rolex does for 1/5th of the price.

The whole idea of grey market and how Patek is fighting it is laughable. Patek started as a grey mkt dealer by purchasing in the secondary. Just think about it!

This description is not accurate and the comparison with Rolex is audacious to say say the least.

You should visit PP and Rolex (good luck with that), and then see how similar their respective processes are.

[Chelsea1986]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

It really depends on the AD as some huge ADs with a long client list with deep pockets are quite different from small ADs in smaller cities.

Most ADs have special events throughout the year. Do you get invited to these events? Does the store owner and/or manager know you by name? Have you been a steady customer for many years without history of flipping watches?

I believe the above questions help determine how valued a client you are to the AD and if they would consider extending an invite to the Patek factory tour.

I was with friends and over the conversation of watches one friend made reference to his boss going over to the factory for a tour on behalf of his AD. He apparently is the league of GC only and not the follower of sports pieces. Made reference to even asking if there was a particular piece you would like to acquire and this can be 'push through' Just wondered was it a case of deep pockets only at these events

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by byow

This description is not accurate and the comparison with Rolex is audacious to say say the least.

You should visit PP and Rolex (good luck with that), and then see how similar their respective processes are.

What is so inaccurate about this description? Are u familiar with finishing protocol at Rolex?

per Ben Clymer:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-rolex

It is in this facility that I also saw something that I really never expected to see – a finishing department. Rolex does finish their watches, and expertly at that, just without the traditional aesthetic flourishes that we as consumers tend to look for when we are examining haute horlogerie, which of course, Rolex is not. Cases are held against a polish wheel by humans, just as they are at Jaeger-LeCoultre or Audemars Piguet. At any given time, there are between 50 and 60 people polishing the cases of Rolex watches. The human element in Rolex watchmaking is more than substantial and very real.


So what is so audacious about that comparison?

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by vliberman

I am not sure how this is complimentary to Patek. One saw CNC machines and hand finishing at the final stage. Exactly what Rolex does for 1/5th of the price.

The whole idea of grey market and how Patek is fighting it is laughable. Patek started as a grey mkt dealer by purchasing in the secondary. Just think about it!

Many people may not realize, Patek officially publishes auction results around the world of their watches in their magazine and applauds the high prices. This is a secondary market created by folks selling their watches. So, the line on when it is okay to sell and when it is not, has never been clear. I applaud Patek in their efforts to place watches with long term end users, but the purchase and sale of any luxury good in the secondary market is a core necessary component of collecting. I might add, at some point, virtually everyone or their heirs will be looking to place items for sale they no longer have any need for or could put the cash value to use in a better way.

[codecow]

Some of it is meh… when I was there they were making the Nautilus 40th, and it was a big deal for them; so it’s hard to believe they don’t care about it or are tired of it or think it is played out.

I wanted pics of the crazy Italian place they take you to, it’s mad and super fun.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by codecow

I wanted pics of the crazy Italian place they take you to, it’s mad and super fun.

Do tell more !!!!


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[mjolnir2thor]

Originally Posted by Tavli3

Not about Rolex but it’s such a great write up from poster on Watch Pro Site I think every watch enthusiast would enjoy reading.

https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-p...2856.14285341/


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Thank you for providing the link to the Watch Pro site thread. Very much appreciated. I worked in Switzerland for a period of 5 years and had the opportunity to visit the IWC site in the late 1980's and shop on the Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich. Unfortunately I never had a chance to make it to Geneve to visit Patek. However, next time I'm on vacation in the area, I will certainly make it a point to visit the museum!

[Ellz]

I appreciate the link and enjoyed the article and their discussion :-)

[codecow]

Originally Posted by dauster

Do tell more !!!!


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When I went (a while ago now), one of the dinners was at an Italian place where they kind of served the courses as a semi banquet. The dessert course was candy and such, but they brought out an obscene amount and variety.

One of the mains was ossobuco, the guy brings out a platter of it and then serves it to the ladies at the table fork to their mouth for the first piece and then he shouts “ossobuco!” and everyone at the table shouts it as well.

It was crazy, it was as if Willy Wonka had an Italian restaurant.

I was jet lagged badly the entire trip and felt off and barely ate or drank up until that evening. I never went to the bar and had cigars after the day’s events but that was the first night my wife felt off so I didn’t stay up and party with the guys.

[codecow]

BTW on “audacious” comparing Patek to other mass produced pieces, I recently watched Teddy’s video on the NOMOS factory. One simple example is a gear wheel, he goes through all the CNC stages with them making a gear wheel

At Patek, it goes through the same CNC stages most likely except the teeth shaping. When I was there they had about six ladies in a room with machines spinning a wooden disk at high rpm’s, and they did the final shaping and polishing of the teeth by hand; BY FEEL and sound. Can you imagine long shifts (Swiss work longer shifts) of polishing tiny gear teeth by hand when you can’t even see them?

QC on those parts was done by comparing a projection against a scaled up template, also by hand/eye.

That’s a lot of human effort going into making a single component.

NOMOS version the human moves the blanks between CNC stages and puts them in trays and a computer checks it.

Now scale that across the entire watch.

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

What is so inaccurate about this description? Are u familiar with finishing protocol at Rolex?

per Ben Clymer:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-rolex

It is in this facility that I also saw something that I really never expected to see – a finishing department. Rolex does finish their watches, and expertly at that, just without the traditional aesthetic flourishes that we as consumers tend to look for when we are examining haute horlogerie, which of course, Rolex is not. Cases are held against a polish wheel by humans, just as they are at Jaeger-LeCoultre or Audemars Piguet. At any given time, there are between 50 and 60 people polishing the cases of Rolex watches. The human element in Rolex watchmaking is more than substantial and very real.


So what is so audacious about that comparison?

I suppose that it all depends on where you start and what your expectations are. Ben Clymer is apparently surprised that there are 60 people polishing cases by hand for a company that made at the time around 800 000 watches per year.

As a point of comparison, at the same period, PP was making 60 000 watches per year. In the « complications » department alone, there were 30 persons working on the cases. A simple calculation shows that the ratio is not the same between Rolex and PP.

PP uses hand polished screws. Rolex does not do that. Each bridge is hand finished. Perlage, côtes de Genève, etc. are done by hand at PP.

The polishing of a Nautilus bracelet in SS takes more than twelve hours of work. The polishers working on these bracelets had more than ten years of experience as polishers at PP. At Rolex, I have discussed with polishers who had two years of experience.

« Handwork » on a Rolex is approximately 15-20% of the total amount of « work » needed to make that specific watch. A PP requires approximately 70-75% of « handwork ». These percentages do not include QC.

If I were to summarize this, Rolex industrialized the process of making a watch. PP rationalized « artisanat ».

You do not need to believe me. You should try to visit and see by yourself.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by codecow

When I went (a while ago now), one of the dinners was at an Italian place where they kind of served the courses as a semi banquet. The dessert course was candy and such, but they brought out an obscene amount and variety.

One of the mains was ossobuco, the guy brings out a platter of it and then serves it to the ladies at the table fork to their mouth for the first piece and then he shouts “ossobuco!” and everyone at the table shouts it as well.

It was crazy, it was as if Willy Wonka had an Italian restaurant.

I was jet lagged badly the entire trip and felt off and barely ate or drank up until that evening. I never went to the bar and had cigars after the day’s events but that was the first night my wife felt off so I didn’t stay up and party with the guys.

Ah man that sounds awesome too bad you were jet lagged-I’m shouting ossobuco in my head as I’m waking up ;)


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[codecow]

Originally Posted by dauster

Ah man that sounds awesome too bad you were jet lagged-I’m shouting ossobuco in my head as I’m waking up ;)


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It was actually insane. I probably drank two bottles of wine myself at that dinner, I was wasted.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by codecow

It was actually insane. I probably drank two bottles of wine myself at that dinner, I was wasted.

lol two bottles that’s crazy - Hhahahah hope I get to experience that


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[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by Chelsea1986

I was with friends and over the conversation of watches one friend made reference to his boss going over to the factory for a tour on behalf of his AD. He apparently is the league of GC only and not the follower of sports pieces. Made reference to even asking if there was a particular piece you would like to acquire and this can be 'push through' Just wondered was it a case of deep pockets only at these events

I think it has less to do with "deep pockets" than is this the type of person Patek would be interested in having as a long term client.

There are clients with deep pockets who flip watches and they get "blacklisted" by Patek. However they really don't care and move onto other "hot tems" to "flip" for a quick profit.

That is why Patek trusts the ADs to select and invite clients to these factory tours. Usually the AD has known the clients for years and sometimes tens of years. So just like AD allocate high demand watches to their best clients, I suspect factory tour invite goes to their best clients as well.

On a slightly different topic of losing AD status, I suspect many if not most ADs losing status have been selling Patek watches through the back door to known flippers or gray dealers.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Chelsea1986

Is this the case. Would one need to be buying GC to get on a tour and been buying for say 5+ years

It depends on the AD and who wants to go, or who they think will spend money. We had a couple on my trip who had only purchased a single annual calendar and probably some jewelry.