Purchase Abroad and U.S. Import Duties

[Partekular]

If you can afford a PP you can afford to pay the tax. Tax evasion is a obviously a crime and while you may get away with it what does that say about your morality?

It’s easy for the commentariat to suggest you avoid import taxes but it’s you who would face the penalty.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Partekular

If you can afford a PP you can afford to pay the tax. Tax evasion is a obviously a crime and while you may get away with it what does that say about your morality?

It’s easy for the commentariat to suggest you avoid import taxes but it’s you who would face the penalty.

100% agree it’s not worth the risks of being caught and facing criminal charges / penalty…. Now with regard to taxes and “morality”, well I don’t think that’s as straight forward and a much more politically charged issue best left off the TRF threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by JR16

100% agree it’s not worth the risks of being caught and facing criminal charges / penalty…. Now with regard to taxes and “morality”, well I don’t think that’s as straight forward and a much more politically charged issue best left off the TRF threads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Isn’t breaking the law immoral? - not stealing, bearing false witness etc etc. I get it that some folk might want to get political about tax, how it’s raised and how it’s spent but that’s quite a different issue which I didn’t raise and is, as you say, not one for this forum.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Partekular

Isn’t breaking the law immoral? - not stealing, bearing false witness etc etc. I get it that some folk might want to get political about tax, how it’s raised and how it’s spent but that’s quite a different issue which I didn’t raise and is, as you say, not one for this forum.

It depends on the law I suppose. Just because something is a “law”, doesn’t necessarily mean it is immoral not to follow it. Laws are arbitrary, often political, differ across states and countries etc etc. If it is a law in a middle eastern country that women can’t drive an automobile, is it then immoral for women to drive a car? Just an example .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Incroyable12]

It's also very cultural.

In some countries tax evasion is the national sport.

[a23persaud]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

With the USD and Euro near parity it is absolutely cheaper. Here’s the all-in price of 5370 in Europe compared to US:

Europe: Retail 253,900, after VAT it comes to 208,000 (this price was the one I was given from the AD) ~~ if that was purchased at todays exchange rate it would be $211,905

$211,905 + 3% + 6.25% (NY sales tax) = $231,506 all-in

US Retail: $263,000

What I am not sure of is whether CBP and the US state in which one resides charges tax on the pre or post-VAT price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi, sorry to dredge up an old forum but was curious what ended up happening in this situation, as I am traveling this upcoming weekend and hope to purchase a watch abroad. What % did you end up paying at US Customs when you declared the watch / watches? Also, did you end up having to pay a NYS sales tax, as well? How did that process work exactly?

Thanks for your help!

[russ86]

I am actually curious to find out what you ended up paying.

[Copasetic]

Originally Posted by Incroyable12

Or just put the boxes in your check in luggage. No one is going to check or care.

You can also get a nice 10% percent back at your departing airport for VAT.

My experience, being in Italy in October, is the VAT refund ranges from 10 to 20%. The AP Boutique in Florence told me there’s was 20%.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by a23persaud

Hi, sorry to dredge up an old forum but was curious what ended up happening in this situation, as I am traveling this upcoming weekend and hope to purchase a watch abroad. What % did you end up paying at US Customs when you declared the watch / watches? Also, did you end up having to pay a NYS sales tax, as well? How did that process work exactly?

Thanks for your help!

Curious too but unless you would want to establish a relationship overseas with an AD I’d just buy the 5370 grey I think it’s trading at significant discount anyway


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Partekular

Tax evasion is a obviously a crime and while you may get away with it what does that say about your morality?

A country charging a tax for something you bought elsewhere is theft in my book. Just because its a law, does not mean its moral.

[pav333hp]

Originally Posted by JR16

It depends on the law I suppose. Just because something is a “law”, doesn’t necessarily mean it is immoral not to follow it. Laws are arbitrary, often political, differ across states and countries etc etc. If it is a law in a middle eastern country that women can’t drive an automobile, is it then immoral for women to drive a car? Just an example .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

^This!!!

Originally Posted by V25V

A country charging a tax for something you bought elsewhere is theft in my book. Just because it's a law, does not mean it's moral.

^And also this.

I'm all for following the law and not committing a crime, but we know many so called "laws" over the course of history are difficult to call "moral". But up to OP to decide what they want to do I suppose.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by a23persaud

Hi, sorry to dredge up an old forum but was curious what ended up happening in this situation, as I am traveling this upcoming weekend and hope to purchase a watch abroad. What % did you end up paying at US Customs when you declared the watch / watches? Also, did you end up having to pay a NYS sales tax, as well? How did that process work exactly?

Thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by russ86

I am actually curious to find out what you ended up paying.

Originally Posted by Copasetic

My experience, being in Italy in October, is the VAT refund ranges from 10 to 20%. The AP Boutique in Florence told me there’s was 20%.

After speaking with the sales associate, I was told I'd need to get approved by Patek to purchase the watch. I followed up a few times during my stay in Madrid but never received word on whether I was approved. I didn't inquire further after a few messages.

Fast forward to this past summer, I happened to be in Madrid again and stopped by. A 5370 was in the window, and I decided to pop in as I was curious if they'd now sell the watch, particularly because the watch was readily available on the secondary market for 200k (I did not mention this while speaking with the SA). This time, I was told they only sell to locals now. Even though the SA said this, he was very accommodating even with him knowing I was unable to purchase anything with this policy.

I did end up purchasing another watch from another brand, and if my memory serves me right, I ended up only paying 2-3% at customs. The process was seamless with customs and only took 10 minutes.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

After speaking with the sales associate, I was told I'd need to get approved by Patek to purchase the watch. I followed up a few times during my stay in Madrid but never received word on whether I was approved. I didn't inquire further after a few messages.

Fast forward to this past summer, I happened to be in Madrid again and stopped by. A 5370 was in the window, and I decided to pop in as I was curious if they'd now sell the watch, particularly because the watch was readily available on the secondary market for 200k (I did not mention this while speaking with the SA). This time, I was told they only sell to locals now. Even though the SA said this, he was very accommodating even with him knowing I was unable to purchase anything with this policy.

I did end up purchasing another watch from another brand, and if my memory serves me right, I ended up only paying 2-3% at customs. The process was seamless with customs and only took 10 minutes.

Interesting so 5270 is not an application piece but 5370 is. How about 5204 ? Obviously celestial is also but how about 5160. Sorry to hijack the thread just curious now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by V25V

A country charging a tax for something you bought elsewhere is theft in my book. Just because its a law, does not mean its moral.

Amazing! Local and national taxes pay for your use of the infrastructure, police, etc etc.

It's about the law, not morality.

Annoying as it is I will be paying NY taxes when I visit and I hope some of it goes to getting people off the streets. Of course I will reclaim what I am legally entitled to!

If you can afford PATEK surely you can afford taxes?

PS with the FBI currently hunting down consignment grey dealing USA tax fraudsters and trying to trace the poor mugs who bought stolen watches thinking they were legit they may well be searching the internet for the victims in order to reclaim their stolen watches...... see opusntime etc

[jamestucker]

Originally Posted by dauster

Interesting so 5270 is not an application piece but 5370 is. How about 5204 ? Obviously celestial is also but how about 5160. Sorry to hijack the thread just curious now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

5270 is not an application piece, readily available at some ADs. 5370P was an application piece but not anymore, Patek confirmed it when I enquired about it. 5204 is also not an application piece and earlier this year London Salon had one in stock. I am not sure of the regular Celestials but out of catalogue gem set Celestials are application pieces. 5160G is an application piece and that could be due to the limited number of watches produced as the case, crown, lugs, clasp, and dial are hand engraved.

[fsprow]

Originally Posted by Partekular

Amazing! Local and national taxes pay for your use of the infrastructure, police, etc etc.

It's about the law, not morality.

Annoying as it is I will be paying NY taxes when I visit and I hope some of it goes to getting people off the streets. Of course I will reclaim what I am legally entitled to!

If you can afford PATEK surely you can afford taxes?

PS with the FBI currently hunting down consignment grey dealing USA tax fraudsters and trying to trace the poor mugs who bought stolen watches thinking they were legit they may well be searching the internet for the victims in order to reclaim their stolen watches...... see opusntime etc

100% correct.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Partekular

Amazing! Local and national taxes pay for your use of the infrastructure, police, etc etc.

It's about the law, not morality.

Annoying as it is I will be paying NY taxes when I visit and I hope some of it goes to getting people off the streets. Of course I will reclaim what I am legally entitled to!

If you can afford PATEK surely you can afford taxes?

PS with the FBI currently hunting down consignment grey dealing USA tax fraudsters and trying to trace the poor mugs who bought stolen watches thinking they were legit they may well be searching the internet for the victims in order to reclaim their stolen watches...... see opusntime etc

Follow along if you want to comment. Someone else tried to connect morality to law, I am saying they are two different things many times. This is one of those in my opinion.

What does you paying NY taxes and reclaiming what you are entitled to help your argument? Me paying a federal tax claiming things I bought abroad does not help get people off my streets in my city, that would be a state/local tax. Which I would also be against having to pay but at least that would go to something close to me. A federal tax for something I bought in another country just to bring it into the USA and wear it on my wrist? Yeah thats theft. Me being able to afford it or not does not change the fact that its wrong and just a way for the feds to increase revenue (tax).

[santiago]

I have always declared my purchases and often the honesty helps and the agent provides a break on the 3%.

Do Not ship a box and expect not to be caught. Not only will you owe customs, but in my state (CA), they contacted me for taxes as well.

Is the few thousand you might save really worth the risk?

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by V25V

Follow along if you want to comment. Someone else tried to connect morality to law, I am saying they are two different things many times. This is one of those in my opinion.

What does you paying NY taxes and reclaiming what you are entitled to help your argument? Me paying a federal tax claiming things I bought abroad does not help get people off my streets in my city, that would be a state/local tax. Which I would also be against having to pay but at least that would go to something close to me. A federal tax for something I bought in another country just to bring it into the USA and wear it on my wrist? Yeah thats theft. Me being able to afford it or not does not change the fact that its wrong and just a way for the feds to increase revenue (tax).

Of course law and morality are distinct concepts.

Avoiding tax is legal, evading tax it is not.

Theft is defined as dishonest appropriation etc. A duly passed tax law is, de facto, legal and thus not theft. Irritating - possibly but not theft.

If you can’t afford the tax - or the punishment if caught evading it - don’t buy the watch.


A person who wilfully breaks laws passed by the nation they are in is usually not considered to be a moral upright citizen. Is that a fair assessment or not?

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Partekular

A person who wilfully breaks laws passed by the nation they are in is usually not considered to be a moral upright citizen. Is that a fair assessment or not?

So you believe all laws passed by a country are moral then? You believe a law taxing someone on something they paid for in another country is moral or fair? I think many taxes we have in place are immoral and wrong. I still pay my taxes and luckily have never been in a position that the OP is in, I buy my watches from AD's mostly and pay my sales tax at that time. But, that does not mean I agree with what the standard is just because some politicians pushed through a way for them to increase their revenues via ripping people off. Government is a business and taxes are revenue, they just find ways to increase that wherever they can. That does not make it moral and in turn, one trying to not pay it does not make them immoral. We are not talking about evading income tax or similar here, lets be real.

[Henkan]

Originally Posted by V25V

So you believe all laws passed by a country are moral then? You believe a law taxing someone on something they paid for in another country is moral or fair? I think many taxes we have in place are immoral and wrong. I still pay my taxes and luckily have never been in a position that the OP is in, I buy my watches from AD's mostly and pay my sales tax at that time. But, that does not mean I agree with what the standard is just because some politicians pushed through a way for them to increase their revenues via ripping people off. Government is a business and taxes are revenue, they just find ways to increase that wherever they can. That does not make it moral and in turn, one trying to not pay it does not make them immoral. We are not talking about evading income tax or similar here, lets be real.

A bit off topic, no?

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Henkan

A bit off topic, no?

Did you read this thread? Not off topic at all from where someone else took it; morality vs law.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GGGMT]

Hilarious… bunch of dudes who can afford a PP haggling over whether or not to pay a few grand in taxes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Henkan]

Originally Posted by V25V

Did you read this thread? Not off topic at all from where someone else took it; morality vs law.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ok, whatever!

[Nico81]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

Pack up the boxes nicely and ship them then just wear the watch home.

Thats illegal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nico81]

Originally Posted by bachoanguyen

Yup, just leave box and paper in luggage and wear your watch as your personal stuff. Tell ‘em that you got from family, if being asked.

Thats a terrible advice.
First you are telling him to lie snd break the law.
Secondly If you are called into secondary inspection, you go with all of your luggage, including checked.
And if they find out you lied, they can and they willl confiscate

Its not worth it. Declare


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fsprow]

100% correct. A person I know tried to wear some jewelry into the US that had been purchased in Europe. Received a large fine and every time she went through US Customs after that she was taken to a separate room and each item carried was questioned.

[fsprow]

Originally Posted by fsprow

100% correct. A person I know tried to wear some jewelry into the US that had been purchased in Europe. Received a large fine and every time she went through US Customs after that she was taken to a separate room and each item carried was questioned.

I also note that several times going through US Customs with purchased items correctly declared, the agent has just looked at the form and said “welcome back” and waved me through.

[Olive Drab]

Originally Posted by Partekular

Amazing! Local and national taxes pay for your use of the infrastructure, police, etc etc.

It's about the law, not morality.

Annoying as it is I will be paying NY taxes when I visit and I hope some of it goes to getting people off the streets. Of course I will reclaim what I am legally entitled to!

If you can afford PATEK surely you can afford taxes?

PS with the FBI currently hunting down consignment grey dealing USA tax fraudsters and trying to trace the poor mugs who bought stolen watches thinking they were legit they may well be searching the internet for the victims in order to reclaim their stolen watches...... see opusntime etc

I wouldnt take anything from opusntime as more than entertainment

[Notimetodie]

If caught, in addition to a fine which is usually assessed as 100% value of the smuggled item, the item itself is confiscated. You then have very short limited time to get the item back through a legal proceeding, while the fine remains (and the chances of you getting the item back still very low). Your call if you want to be 500k out of pocket + legal fees over a tax that will be less than your legal fees.