ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
12 November 2018, 06:26 AM | #31 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Real Name: Roger
Location: ...
Watch: AP/Rolex/PP
Posts: 6,309
|
Quote:
Philosophically - yes — and I am one of those clients that gets the pick of the litter and the early delivery phone calls from both my ADs - and have been the first recipient of SEVERAL hard to get references over the years. There has been a BIG paradigm shift in the watch world and it is begging for some normalization - there’s no reason (IMHO) to disenfranchise buyers by this tactic - everyone should have an opportunity to buy the references they want. Not just me. It’s the EXACT reason I turned down the 1st BLRO that was delivered to my AD amongst a couple of other references recently. These package deals - aren’t making better clients for ADs — they’re just fueling the secondary market overall — so in the grand scheme of things - ADs are really just hurting themselves. If all the ADs had to rely on was their top 2% of clients — they would have to change their business model. My AD for example turns away BIG profits weekly not having inventory to sell to routine customers. The 1% or 2% OR LESS of their ‘best clients’ still get what they want — that is one of the largest misconceptions in the watch game — what defines a ‘best client’. It’s not all about $$ alone. Some ADs - have extrapolated these trying times for true enthusiasts as a quick way to increase profits - using an unsustainable approach. Again — just my humble opinion. Cheers Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
12 November 2018, 06:52 AM | #32 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Posts: 215
|
Part of the problem, though, is that selling to a brand new client does not necessarily increase the chance that the piece won't get flipped in the secondary market compared to a well known client. Especially if you assume a dealer has more information about current larger or at least consistent clients.
For example, they probably have a decent idea of which clients tend to hold on to watches or at least only buy things they actually want to wear or have. In fact from the sound of it, you are exactly that client and you didn't take a hard to get watch for probably those reasons. So in this case the dealer did absolutely the right thing to offer you that piece. They, of course, had no way to know in advance if you would want it. But you passed and so perhaps they were able to go down the list to someone like you who they know will only take the piece if they want it for themselves and not to flip. That all sounds pretty reasonable to me. I tend to agree in the sense that package deals are not great if the only reason a buyer is doing it is to monitize the value of the other watch as a discount. However, a package deal is probably one step better than offering a prized piece to a random person that walks through the front door. Quote:
|
|
12 November 2018, 07:44 AM | #33 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bucuresti
Watch: Submariner
Posts: 1,724
|
Quote:
Quote:
Same thing goes in the car market, Porsche ADs (more or less, but a lot more of them) won't sell you a GT model as your first pick, offering all the bs sales excuses. Afterwards, that car would go to someone who will exploit it far less than a GTi owner. It's all about making more money for them, everything else is just bs. |
||
12 November 2018, 10:54 AM | #34 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex, PP
Posts: 1,198
|
Quote:
I appreciate the feedback from everyone. Its nice to be the first owner and have your name on the papers but I do agree sometimes its not worth it. I'm going to attempt to focus more on a 5712R and go from there, seems to be much less of a secondary markup. Maybe the AD will come thru, maybe not.
__________________
Work hard in silence. Let your success make the noise |
|
12 November 2018, 02:28 PM | #35 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: CN&CA
Posts: 146
|
If 5711r is the only model you want at the moment, I will say go grey.
For your shopping list this wont be the first hard time AD will give you. The bundle sales will be going on forever maybe reward 1 or 2 without package sales in future? My ad was smart enough to tell me this whole thing at beginning, so its up to me to decide which is a fair game too cut the bs. More or less, the watch market is getting worse. I have seen bundle sales for a 15400(not even blue dial), needless to say about Rolex. |
12 November 2018, 02:59 PM | #36 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: bklyn
Posts: 1,471
|
this kind of shit gets me so frustrated.
for a person like myself who has been looking for an 11R (at retail) for quite a while, just a kick in the stomach hearing that these models are in fact available at list prices but at a “cost”. |
12 November 2018, 03:10 PM | #37 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 4,345
|
5711R is a very beautiful watch but it is not hard to obtain one from an AD. I would try a different AD
|
12 November 2018, 07:01 PM | #38 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Real Name: Seth
Location: nj
Watch: Omega
Posts: 24,699
|
Quote:
I walked through Milan yesterday and Rolex had, (to be expected) zero stock. The folks at Patek all but laughed at me when I said I wanted to browse and see what they had. There is nothing there. Could these guys all have had stock in the back for important customers? Maybe. I mean, why sell it to me? Besides the sale, which in a perfect world is enough, there is no real reason to sell me a hard to get watch. I will never be back as a repeat customer. In short time, I have developed a pretty nice relationship with AD local to me. He sees the value in selling to me. Already I have purchased a few straps and a watch winder. For certain, I will be back for more products as they sell a few different items and brands in this store. You are lucky in that you get the right of refusal. But you earned that somehow. And for certain, it make sense for the AD to give you that type of treatment. Otherwise they would not do it. For a guy like me, I’m not ever going to get a 5711 from an AD. It is just not going to happen. And personally, I am okay with that. I don’t blame the AD. I don’t blame the manufacturer either. They are creating the mystique and the prestige through limiting supply and ensuring that not everyone will have the opportunity to buy. After all, it is human nature and if everyone that wanted one could get one, not nearly as many people would want one. AD’s too are in business to make money. And with limited stock to sell, that is a challenge for them. I am all for paying gray or bundling if it brings a person closer to the goal. Whatever that goal might be. I would prefer to be the guy that can get whatever he wants at MSRP. But there is a cost to that too. Two separate sides of a similar coin, imo.
__________________
If happiness is a state of mind, why look anywhere else for it? IG: gsmotorclub IG: thesawcollection (Both mostly just car stuff) |
|
12 November 2018, 09:47 PM | #39 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Real Name: Neil
Location: UK
Watch: ing ships roll in
Posts: 59,242
|
Soon they will take their signs down like trendy clubs so only those in the know can even find them.
|
13 November 2018, 12:35 AM | #40 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Real Name: Roger
Location: ...
Watch: AP/Rolex/PP
Posts: 6,309
|
Advice from fellow Patek Owners on a potential "package" deal
Quote:
It’s a difficult and somewhat sad ‘state’ for enthusiasts my friend that is for sure. It’s a tough topic to address and at the end of the day everyone has to take the path their most comfortable with. I really wish we had the answer - or the strategy, but the amalgamation the watch world has shifted to is unfortunately a very slow moving train hard pressed to change course. I think it will shift - at some point as all things do — but we know how ‘easy’ those things are to predict.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
13 November 2018, 12:38 AM | #41 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Watch: Rolex/Others
Posts: 44,758
|
I would not package but I would do two watches if I wanted them. I would also be willing to buy one watch I want and either pay for or put a significant deposit on a second one. I would need this money to be refundable and with a agreeable time line for delivery. Get it in writing.
|
13 November 2018, 02:42 AM | #42 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Real Name: Seth
Location: nj
Watch: Omega
Posts: 24,699
|
Quote:
Sure wish I could predict all this. But I suppose that would take the fun out.
__________________
If happiness is a state of mind, why look anywhere else for it? IG: gsmotorclub IG: thesawcollection (Both mostly just car stuff) |
|
13 November 2018, 04:37 AM | #43 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 16
|
Doesn't it just come down to simple math? If you can flip the "unwanted" packaged watch for more of a gain than the extra you'd have to pay for grey market price of the watch you do want, I'd think you have your answer. As for what is or isn't appropriate behavior from an AD, I think it's a moot point. We just saw a 3-month old Tiffany 5711 being sold at auction yesterday. Something that wasn't even supposed to come to market... Do these things happen? Sure. No point in worrying about whether or not it's acceptable behavior. Ultimately we're still talking about ultra-luxury goods from people who run businesses. The morals/ethics of what's appropriate in this arena is blurry to begin with.
I completely agree with Seth in that your right of first refusal should be seen as an advantage and not a reason to "find another AD." |
13 November 2018, 05:22 AM | #44 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 16
|
Quote:
I totally agree with this. As consumers, I think we often overlook the AD's side of the coin. Were this 2008-2009, when business was slow, most ADs would not have been in the driver's seat. There is an ebb and flow to the economy and we're talking about luxury goods that will reflect that. To apply standards of behavior that may have been more appropriate of a slow economy just causes the consumer to lose out on a chance to play the game. We need to be open to shifts in the supply-demand model and not lose sight of the big picture. |
|
13 November 2018, 08:44 AM | #45 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Patekville
Posts: 175
|
Quote:
|
|
13 November 2018, 08:54 AM | #46 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 169
|
I don't think the 5711r is that hard to get, certainly not compared to the 5711 blue dial. Two years ago that watch was selling for a discount. I believe there is a cycle to this mania and those who are patient will be rewarded soon. My advice would be to broaden your search at ADs, and be willing to wait just a bit longer.
|
13 November 2018, 09:23 AM | #47 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Real Name: Michael
Location: Dotonbori
Watch: Mostly blue dials
Posts: 7,625
|
Quote:
|
|
14 November 2018, 12:37 AM | #48 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 16
|
I totally agree. Though of note, in this case it seems that the AD in question is willing to forego goodwill with previously established customers... in exchange for those who are willing to pay more and help move inventory as part of package deals. I wouldn't go out of my way to expect to build a solid relationship under such circumstances. I'd just take it as a momentary opportunity.
|
16 November 2018, 08:28 AM | #49 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Watch: Lots
Posts: 4,354
|
I think the “strategy” as you call it is the product of the way the manufacturers dump undesirable pieces on their AD’s without giving them the option of saying no thanks. How do you propose they sell these undesirable pieces which they are forced to buy and tie up working capital?
|
16 November 2018, 10:21 AM | #50 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 284
|
And dealers signed up to that deal. I am pretty sure that they also signed up to not doing “package” deals.
If my dealer tried that, I would change dealer. |
16 November 2018, 02:57 PM | #51 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: US
Posts: 343
|
Quote:
|
|
16 November 2018, 11:12 PM | #52 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Real Name: Roger
Location: ...
Watch: AP/Rolex/PP
Posts: 6,309
|
Quote:
‘Dumping’ undesirable references is a pretty harsh perspective. When you’re an AD - and you have an account (like Rolex, Patek or AP) you agree to ‘buy’ inventory at a certain $ value - and it will obviously not be just the ‘hot’ or desirable references. Have had this conversation several times with my friends who have ADs. It’s the cost of doing business - period. It is up to them to determine the proper business model / market strategy for them (ADs) to be successful - certainly not us or the manufacturers. Just my .02 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
16 November 2018, 11:18 PM | #53 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,341
|
6a
5167A has been in production for ~10 years. I imagine all the Tiffany ADs combined receive a couple of dozen 5167A's a year, with the NYC store receiving the most. Unless you know the date of the Certificate, you do not know how old these watches are. They may have been sold at a Tiffany AD a month ago or 10 years ago. Could it be a quick flip for a profit? Possibly. But it could be an older watch that a seller wanted to cash in on after years of ownership.
|
18 November 2018, 06:14 AM | #54 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex and Patek
Posts: 10,601
|
|
18 November 2018, 06:57 AM | #55 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Watch: Lots
Posts: 4,354
|
Quote:
|
|
18 November 2018, 09:50 AM | #56 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 284
|
|
18 November 2018, 10:21 AM | #57 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex, PP
Posts: 1,198
|
I hear a lot of talk about slow movers and undesirable watches in a lot of threads including this one. If something is only selling when it has to be forced on a consumer (or AD for that matter) why keep producing it? Seems strange to me
__________________
Work hard in silence. Let your success make the noise |
18 November 2018, 10:24 AM | #58 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex, PP
Posts: 1,198
|
And I have thought about this more and I don’t really care to package anything at this point unless I planned to buy anyways. The more I think about it makes less sense in this situation. I could see a 5711a blue dial almost requiring this at this point but can a 51k piece really be that hot of a mover forever?
__________________
Work hard in silence. Let your success make the noise |
18 November 2018, 10:36 AM | #59 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex and Patek
Posts: 10,601
|
Seeing these threads makes me wonder why folks do not look at the complicated Patek models in the 35 to 37mm range. There are such great values out there now and I do not believe that will be the case for long. I believe the 5051 and a string of other similar references have the identical movement that is in the 5712. These are incredible watches and be had (relatively speaking) for next to nothing as folks went crazy with the over the top huge diameter watches around 2010 fueled by the Panarai craze. This market inefficiency will soon correct itself as people start to see the incredible values out there. Take a look at the PC 240Q movement cased in the 5040 or the 5039. Half the cost of a new one with the identical movement and a large oversized case. Just my two cents.
|
18 November 2018, 10:50 AM | #60 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 19,456
|
What's the name of your dealer that has you doing this 'package deal'?
__________________
__________________ “Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'Wow! What a Ride!'” -- Hunter S. Thompson Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory. |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.