Where do dealers like HQ Milton source their vintage pieces?

[jfmiii]

I understand they would most likely never divulge their sources but where do dealers like HQ or Eric Ku find vintage pieces in such amazing condition at a price where they can make money on the resale? Where do they find the seemingly endless supply of amazing pieces?? Something ive always wondered and I wouldnt be surprised if no one here knows the answer.

[springer]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

I understand they would most likely never divulge their sources but where do dealers like HQ or Eric Ku find vintage pieces in such amazing condition at a price where they can make money on the resale? Where do they find the seemingly endless supply of amazing pieces?? Something ive always wondered and I wouldnt be surprised if no one here knows the answer.

I can't speak for HQ Milton, but Ku's "amazing condition" watches are interesting, to say the least.

[Old Expat Beast]

I think some of the sellers go on trawling trips to Hong Kong...I've seen and heard a couple of apparently large transactions going on in vintage shops here. As to the two you name, though, I have no idea.

[Americanlife]

You can always find amazing pieces in Hong Kong and Japan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CrownMe]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

I understand they would most likely never divulge their sources but where do dealers like HQ or Eric Ku find vintage pieces in such amazing condition at a price where they can make money on the resale? Where do they find the seemingly endless supply of amazing pieces?? Something ive always wondered and I wouldnt be surprised if no one here knows the answer.

i wondered the same exact thing. great thread.

[Kobayashi]

I imagine the watch shows for IWJG members. There's about 10 trade shows a year. Also other dealers and then eventually word of mouth.

Here's a link to the upcoming shows this year:

http://www.iwjg.com/calendar.shtml

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by Kobayashi

I imagine the watch shows for IWJG members. There's about 10 trade shows a year. Also other dealers and then eventually word of mouth.

Here's a link to the upcoming shows this year:

http://www.iwjg.com/calendar.shtml

I've heard there aren't really any "deals" to be found at those shows; in other words, the pieces there are nice but also priced similarly to a watch at Shear or HQ.

I've wondered the same thing, and imagine that those sellers have pretty high margins, but I could be wrong? Seems like a tough business model if they're buying a watch for 20 and selling for 23-25.

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by Americanlife

You can always find amazing pieces in Hong Kong and Japan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i always figured this was part of the answer. however, with the internet, physical location means little. why sell to an american dealer at wholesale when you can sell to an american collector at retail just as easily?

this leads me to my next point. the profit margins have to be fairly thin, right? let's say i am an american dealer buying a run of the mill, nice patina'd, thick case white 1680 in japan for resale in the US. the japanese dealer isnt selling this to me at more than 5-10% off retail right? anything more and it seems to me to make sense to sell directly to the american consumer.

[CrownMe]

i like the fact that the watches on hqmilton are honest. I like that they dont try to fix all the flaws and make them perfect.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

i always figured this was part of the answer. however, with the internet, physical location means little. why sell to an american dealer at wholesale when you can sell to an american collector at retail just as easily?

this leads me to my next point. the profit margins have to be fairly thin, right? let's say i am an american dealer buying a run of the mill, nice patina'd, thick case white 1680 in japan for resale in the US. the japanese dealer isnt selling this to me at more than 5-10% off retail right? anything more and it seems to me to make sense to sell directly to the american consumer.

(Speaking from a "stateside" view) I believe it's a little less daunting to most US buyers to buy from a store in SF or NY, as opposed to HK. Whether it's tangible or not, I personally would feel better knowing that "my" laws and rules are (supposedly!) applied to myself and my seller equally.

We all know there are exceptions to every rule, and if someone wants to defraud you, they will, regardless of location or country of residence.

Now, as to the seeming abundance of vintage pieces in Asia for example, is that culture less likely to pass down an heirloom; or were there just that many more rolex owners per capita? And it seems like they are priced actually higher over there than comparable pieces here (at least the more talked about dealers in HK on this forum)?

[Kobayashi]

Originally Posted by southtexas

I've heard there aren't really any "deals" to be found at those shows; in other words, the pieces there are nice but also priced similarly to a watch at Shear or HQ.

Agreed. I attend about 4 or 5 shows a year for my various hobbies so I'm averaging about 15 shows a year and there aren't many deals. After awhile it's always the same vendors/people showing up as the community for a niche hobby is rather limited. The difference after awhile are the contacts one makes and that's where the real sourcing and deals take place. I'm in the SF Bay Area and it took about a year before I could actually visit Jacek's shop as he's always traveling to various shows or picking up watches in person.

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by southtexas

(Speaking from a "stateside" view) I believe it's a little less daunting to most US buyers to buy from a store in SF or NY, as opposed to HK. Whether it's tangible or not, I personally would feel better knowing that "my" laws and rules are (supposedly!) applied to myself and my seller equally.

We all know there are exceptions to every rule, and if someone wants to defraud you, they will, regardless of location or country of residence.

Now, as to the seeming abundance of vintage pieces in Asia for example, is that culture less likely to pass down an heirloom; or were there just that many more rolex owners per capita? And it seems like they are priced actually higher over there than comparable pieces here (at least the more talked about dealers in HK on this forum)?

that is a fair point about being comfortable with the seller. however, i bring that 5-10% discount up bc if it is any higher, they could be selling on ebay, and paying 3-5% as a large volume seller, on a venue where foreign consumers know they are protected.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

that is a fair point about being comfortable with the seller. however, i bring that 5-10% discount up bc if it is any higher, they could be selling on ebay, and paying 3-5% as a large volume seller, on a venue where foreign consumers know they are protected.

That was my point, but I was coming from the US dealer's perspective. If he goes there and buys a watch at 10% less than what the HK dealer is asking, then he's coming back here to sell it at 'cost', since they're already marked up higher there than here.

Where are these watches coming from?! Check out this inventory on the first thing that popped up on google for hong kong vintage rolex:

http://www.thevintageconcept.com/ind...th=40&page=all

For all I know, this is an average sized store inventory over there.

[ndsleep612]

Originally Posted by Americanlife

You can always find amazing pieces in Hong Kong and Japan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HK and Japan are Rolex porn heaven.

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by southtexas

that was my point, but i was coming from the us dealer's perspective. If he goes there and buys a watch at 10% less than what the hk dealer is asking, then he's coming back here to sell it at 'cost', since they're already marked up higher there than here.

Where are these watches coming from?! Check out this inventory on the first thing that popped up on google for hong kong vintage rolex:

http://www.thevintageconcept.com/ind...th=40&page=all

for all i know, this is an average sized store inventory over there.

:omg::omg::omg::omg::omg::omg:

[jfmiii]

Originally Posted by ndsleep612

HK and Japan are Rolex porn heaven.

what are the prices like for someone walking in with cash compared to here? i have a hard time believing they are much different. it would kind of spoil the whole efficient markets thing. it would also mean im in the wrong business.

[RLX-lvr]

Andrew has such amazing pieces.
He has an endless supply. Sure would like to know his secret. Everything is top notch. And that is just the stuff you see on the net. I bet most of the stuff is traded off the net.
Pretty amazing. Hoping to make a transaction with him soon. :)

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by southtexas

That was my point, but I was coming from the US dealer's perspective. If he goes there and buys a watch at 10% less than what the HK dealer is asking, then he's coming back here to sell it at 'cost', since they're already marked up higher there than here.

Where are these watches coming from?! Check out this inventory on the first thing that popped up on google for hong kong vintage rolex:

http://www.thevintageconcept.com/ind...th=40&page=all

For all I know, this is an average sized store inventory over there.

Square Crown Guard Rolex from 1970?

http://www.thevintageconcept.com/ind...product_id=670










They must have written the year in wrong, because the serial is in the 400ks.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

Square Crown Guard Rolex from 1970?

http://www.thevintageconcept.com/ind...product_id=670

I didn't bother to look closely at most of it, just the shear volume of inventory was overwhelming. I have no idea if that place is legit or not, just the first one I googled.

So I'll rephrase my question: assuming some of those stores are legit, where do all those #$(%* watches come from?!!

[tedscott3]

I sold HQ Milton a Sub a while back.

[CrownMe]

Im sure Laser welders and Lapping machines among other things are the reason we have been seeing so many "Un polished" examples lately. Buy the seller

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by southtexas

I didn't bother to look closely at most of it, just the shear volume of inventory was overwhelming. I have no idea if that place is legit or not, just the first one I googled.

So I'll rephrase my question: assuming some of those stores are legit, where do all those #$(%* watches come from?!!

That place is legit, they have a few stores around town, and I drop in from time to time. I wouldn't buy from them, as they are among the more expensive sellers in Hong Kong. Rents are so high here, that you will always get better deals from online-only dealers or ones with very small premises on high floors. What you see on the website reflects the kind of stock I see in their shops.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by southtexas

(Speaking from a "stateside" view) I believe it's a little less daunting to most US buyers to buy from a store in SF or NY, as opposed to HK. Whether it's tangible or not, I personally would feel better knowing that "my" laws and rules are (supposedly!) applied to myself and my seller equally.

We all know there are exceptions to every rule, and if someone wants to defraud you, they will, regardless of location or country of residence.

Now, as to the seeming abundance of vintage pieces in Asia for example, is that culture less likely to pass down an heirloom; or were there just that many more rolex owners per capita? And it seems like they are priced actually higher over there than comparable pieces here (at least the more talked about dealers in HK on this forum)?

On the abundance of Rolex in Hong Kong, this is copied over from another post I made a few weeks ago. It may help to explain:

"Rolex watches have been a status symbol in Hong Kong since before the Second World War. After the Communist Revolution in the late 1940s, millions of people came to seek refuge in Hong Kong (up to the 1980s and even a few in the early ‘90s). The first wave of refugees were relatively wealthy but often had to leave much of their cash and belongings behind. An easy way to show their (former) status was to display a gold watch. Those first arrivals, just like Hong Kong’s native Chinese, went for the Datejust, as it was relatively new and had a date function which was quite the thing back then.

From the late 1950s refugees were poorer, more desperate folk, often fleeing starvation or the Cultural Revolution (1966 to 76 approx). Many were single men, and for them the first item on the shopping list was a transistor radio, but the grail was a Rolex watch, or at least a Tudor, a brand for which many settled (as in those days they looked exactly like Rolex, thereby giving some ‘face’ at least from a distance), and which is still very popular today.

This as I see it (and I am happy to be corrected by our Hong Kong Chinese members) is more or less how Rolex came to be an integral part of Hong Kong life. Go into the Rolex Service Centre any day of the week and you will see the place packed with people of all shapes, sizes, ages, and wealth brackets. Men and women, office girls, rich housewives, old men with their retirement gold Datejusts, and young entrepreneurs with their vintage Daytonas and subs.

The fact that the windows here are piled high with Rolex watches doesn’t show any disrespect to Rolex, but rather, on the contrary, it reflects a huge respect, and huge inventory, that has built up over the last 80 years or so.

Hans Wilsdorf’s death in 1960 made Front Page news in the local papers here. I doubt that was the case in many cities worldwide."

[southtexas]

Good read, thanks!

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

On the abundance of Rolex in Hong Kong, this is copied over from another post I made a few weeks ago. It may help to explain:

"Rolex watches have been a status symbol in Hong Kong since before the Second World War. After the Communist Revolution in the late 1940s, millions of people came to seek refuge in Hong Kong (up to the 1980s and even a few in the early ‘90s). The first wave of refugees were relatively wealthy but often had to leave much of their cash and belongings behind. An easy way to show their (former) status was to display a gold watch. Those first arrivals, just like Hong Kong’s native Chinese, went for the Datejust, as it was relatively new and had a date function which was quite the thing back then.

From the late 1950s refugees were poorer, more desperate folk, often fleeing starvation or the Cultural Revolution (1966 to 76 approx). Many were single men, and for them the first item on the shopping list was a transistor radio, but the grail was a Rolex watch, or at least a Tudor, a brand for which many settled (as in those days they looked exactly like Rolex, thereby giving some ‘face’ at least from a distance), and which is still very popular today.

This as I see it (and I am happy to be corrected by our Hong Kong Chinese members) is more or less how Rolex came to be an integral part of Hong Kong life. Go into the Rolex Service Centre any day of the week and you will see the place packed with people of all shapes, sizes, ages, and wealth brackets. Men and women, office girls, rich housewives, old men with their retirement gold Datejusts, and young entrepreneurs with their vintage Daytonas and subs.

The fact that the windows here are piled high with Rolex watches doesn’t show any disrespect to Rolex, but rather, on the contrary, it reflects a huge respect, and huge inventory, that has built up over the last 80 years or so.

Hans Wilsdorf’s death in 1960 made Front Page news in the local papers here. I doubt that was the case in many cities worldwide."

Wow! Thanks for posting that!

[mdw3]

Most dealers are happy to buy a decent watch for $20K and resell for $23-25K. The margins are not what you would think. No retail keystone going on here.

Michael

[dpa94114]

Don't forget - so many rolexes were bought 30-40 years ago at fairly low prices ($xxx), mostly by men...often put in boxes in closets and re-discovered when Dad dies.

I think plenty of people do quick google searches and probably land on ebay and HQMilton, Andrew Shear, et. al... Ebay lands the more adventurous while small shops probably are very appealing to many (quick cash, no hassle).

[Speed]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

I understand they would most likely never divulge their sources but where do dealers like HQ or Eric Ku find vintage pieces in such amazing condition at a price where they can make money on the resale? Where do they find the seemingly endless supply of amazing pieces?? Something ive always wondered and I wouldnt be surprised if no one here knows the answer.

The world / internet is a big place. Watch collectors are constantly trading / selling watches and going for something else.

There you go.

[V.lats97nsx]

Go on hqmilton.com and you can sell your watch. Since they are on the high side of retail they can give people a good price. Then they sell them again. Lol u guys.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Jacek]

Honestly there is no special trick. As the saying goes: blood, sweat and tears. I work a very intense 70 plus hours each week. Most of everything I buy is in the United States. There are so many amazing tiny little shops all over the country that find at least a few good watches over the course of a year. I chat with hundreds of people each week even if they don't sell me anything and when watches do come up for sale I pay up for them. I go to to at least 12 shows a year and buy pieces from other dealers as well. Sometimes I find something good on ebay.... sometimes.

The internet is double edged sword in this crazy watch world. Many original owners find me because I sell and list so many pieces but the margins are very small. It's impossible to buy a watch for cheap when you are listing it at market price. Of course, the stars line up a few times a month and great transactions happen. But at the end of the day it's about building strong relationships with good people and treating them honestly and fairly with each deal.