Where do dealers like HQ Milton source their vintage pieces?

[MrAllAboutIt]

Originally Posted by MrAllAboutIt

I agree while many vintage collectable watches are in circulation, I figure there must be as many if not more sat idle in safes, attics , storage as heirlooms etc..

As unfortunately elders family's members pass away or untill such gems otherwise gathering dust are found such gems remain hidden. Actually it's not a bad thing as it opens the window that there will always be opportunities to locate such grails as and when they do appear probably not always in the most logical places - local pawn shops say.

As a novice enthusiast only just getting into vintage rolexes the prospect of hidden treasure makes this passion of ours even more exciting. It's testament not only to the rarity of vintage rolexes but also the romance and story of each piece .

Apart from the network where the experts stand out is their dedication exploring and searching all the possible places ensuring they locate the grails and for that they have my full respect and admiration. vintage watch collecting is probably as much perspiration as it is inspiration.

Very good point if you are looking to retain these watches for atleast a minimal period if not longer than most dealers who maybe aspire for higher turnover of watches then purchase price is less of an issue.

As years and decades will pass such vintage references will get more valuable so by the time you do pass them on you are likely to have made money even on a slight premium. As I develop my collection I will probably keep a few of my favorites and maybe interchange others allowing others to get joy from them so I can have others. This addiction kinda of reminds me of vintage cars. If you have watched a program's called chasing classic cars. The main protaganist in that show would fly anywhere if some one said they had a old car in the barn not driven for 45 years.

For such persuits apart from the thrill of the purchase or developing collections it is as much about hearing about the stories travelling around the world to appreciate the diversity and size of the scene.

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by bluemartinifan

John a fact-based post is so much more meaningful to the forum versus a drive by opinion. Please share your facts.

I don't think John has any ill intent when he posted his message. However, I can see how his message can be construed as negative towards Ku.

The post implied that he has personal experience/dealing with Ku, but in fact he has not. While he wouldn't comment on Shear, who he has not dealt with, he commented on Ku.

Topic should be closed, imho

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by FremStar

Haha! Not to make light out of that situation, however, though those documents can be read, unless you know both parties personally there is more to the story. My only hope is that folks will stop generalizing on that issue due to what is publicly available.

The vintage Rolex landscape has already started to shift and the final outcome of that case may change the way we collect vintage wristwatches as we know it.

To me, both gentlemen are good guys as I have been around both on more than several occasions behind closed doors and as I have stated before sometimes even the "experts" can get it wrong.

My final comments on this thread.

Sam,
If Maron hadn't had a history of this kind of "stuff" then I would defiantly agree with you.

But, some have pointed out to the forum, In the past, Moran has listed bogus Comex Sub's that can still be viewed on his website that are actually marked as SOLD. After I was pointed to that info, that changed my opinion of him altogether.. John Mayer has no motive to lie about this in my eyes. What would he gain by doing so and with rolex documentation behind him. With a bit of searching you can find the watch on his site or the thread about it here.
an now we are off topic again... I had to respond to your statement.
Back on topic.

[Kobayashi]

Originally Posted by TurboWatch

Topic should be closed, imho

IMHO, I prefer this topic remain open. Maybe delete the posts that may offend others.

As a modern Rolex person that is only now beginning to look into vintage I find these threads informative. My limited knowledge is based on experiences with other collections as the issues are relatively similar - just insert the hobby name. I knew about Jacek and only through this thread have I learned about other sellers as the vintage community is small so I appreciate the insight and discussion.

[springer]

Originally Posted by bluemartinifan

John a fact-based post is so much more meaningful to the forum versus a drive by opinion. Please share your facts.

The fact is - no professional dealer has shared his buying secrets with me. I wish they would Russ. My advice for the novice and even the seasoned buyer, which is a little off-topic, is buying at fair market value and not lowballing sellers when being offered an item at a fair price. Sure, I've had a couple nice watches come way below market price, but as you know, this is not common. The key, my secret, is similar to playing the stock market, buy low, buy well, and sell when the market offers the best potential to realize a gain - which usually doesn't happen overnight. And with that said, my pick for the best investment Rolex in the future will surely be the GMT 16700 (complete sets would be extra nice) and the 16610 LV. Winners all.

[watch-guy.com]

You have to know your stuff. I was very happy dealing with James. he is always very comfortable to share knowledge and show pieces.

I think most dealers make very small margins on the common tradeable pieces eg 5513, 1680 etc but the small number of high end pieces eg 6238 , 369 subbies ,certain daytonas will sell for higher premium

Just my 2c



My steel prince from JD

[The_Walrus]

Originally Posted by southtexas

That was my point, but I was coming from the US dealer's perspective. If he goes there and buys a watch at 10% less than what the HK dealer is asking, then he's coming back here to sell it at 'cost', since they're already marked up higher there than here.

Where are these watches coming from?! Check out this inventory on the first thing that popped up on google for hong kong vintage rolex:

http://www.thevintageconcept.com/ind...th=40&page=all

For all I know, this is an average sized store inventory over there.

Fair Dinkum!!!!!

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by springer

The fact is - no professional dealer has shared his buying secrets with me.

I always ask and unsurprisingly stuff comes from local people, estates, trade ins, collections being liquidated etc

I'd be more worried about buying from asia as it usually looks too good to be true


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[colpol]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

Seriously...
This thread started off with an interesting topic of how/where the trusted dealers we buy our watches find them to begin with.
Now it appears that the thread has switched gears and has to a degree taken an unpleasant tone. Lets keep it positive.

100% Agree !! This is a great thread & nice to see that a few dealers also coming into the discussion

[mike]

Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II

Seriously...
This thread started off with an interesting topic of how/where the trusted dealers we buy our watches find them to begin with.
Now it appears that the thread has switched gears and has to a degree taken an unpleasant tone. Lets keep it positive.

Agreed. It's a great oppertunity when some of the "heavy weights" in the vintage relam provide a measure of their knowledge and insight. I'd like to foster a positive enviornment for all.

[esspee1200]

Jacek is the man. All I need to say here.


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[jedly1]

we get them in the same way i guess anyone gets used stock, through a combination of ways, networks and connections, everyone is a little different i guess.

once you are a dealer , there are of course things like part exchange, trades, general public contacts, trade shows etc etc ...but the real good gems come from original owners or people very close to them. buying properly from them takes...

1. steady nerves and deep enough pockets to make the deal in cash at short notice, because if you don't someone else will, and deep enough that if it turns out you got it wrong to be able to live with the loss and realise you have no one else to blame and all you can do is move on and write the cash off.

2. enough experience of both transacting ( to not get scammed) and of knowing the difference between authentic and non authentic , condition and grading that you don't end up having to deal with point 1 and be prepared to drop everything and travel at short notice....



3. a network of leads generation that takes years to build up , jewellers shops, rolex ad's , auction houses, door-knockers, estate sellers, modern dealers, pawn brokers ...etc etc ...that all know that if they stumble on something nice , you'll be the first person they call, never begrudge them their profit or their finders fee for any lead that does come to fruition and be prepared to buy a lot of crap and kiss a lot of frogs for years to keep those connections alive.

4. pay fairly. if the seller resents the fact you'll have a margin for adding your expertise then you'll never make them happy, but most get it...pay a fair price and people will seek you out to sell to.


not rocket science is it.

[JP Chestnut]

^^^ not rocket science but still more than I could cope with... And I could have been a rocket scientist. Clearly not a job for the faint of heart.

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

^^^ not rocket science but still more than I could cope with... And I could have been a rocket scientist. Clearly not a job for the faint of heart.

Nope , faint of heart you really can't be , there is a high level of risk, admittedly sometimes matched by a high level of reward.. Sometimes not ... And you can minimise your risk by acquiring skills and applying them ... But it's still a high stakes poker game :-)

There's unfortunately a fair few that have fallen by the wayside along the way , it only takes one $100k cock up and the wheels can come off pretty fast.... Think Steve mullholland and a 6541 milgauss that changed his trajectory totally....

[Vincent65]

^^ changed his MO too, by all accounts - fall out all over the place, but that's all water under the bridge now…

Thanks for your input Jed - pretty much in line with what I thought.

[LunetteVerde]

Thanks Jed & Jacek for the replies from a dealer's point of view

Some of the inner sanctum intricacies that I wasn't aware.

Have a good one mates

[red1108nyc]

Thank you Jed and Jacek for the insights!

Jacek is a stand up guy as well. When I first started in vintage, I bought a 1680 with a replacement dial from Jacek and in his ad, he inadvertently did not specify it was a service dial(as a newbie, I could not tell the difference and my fault!). The man promptly offer to return the funds.

Stand up guy and swift to respond in every way... one of our good guy dealers like Jed who also helped one of my friend with a gorgeous Red.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

On the abundance of Rolex in Hong Kong, this is copied over from another post I made a few weeks ago. It may help to explain:

"Rolex watches have been a status symbol in Hong Kong since before the Second World War. After the Communist Revolution in the late 1940s, millions of people came to seek refuge in Hong Kong (up to the 1980s and even a few in the early ‘90s). The first wave of refugees were relatively wealthy but often had to leave much of their cash and belongings behind. An easy way to show their (former) status was to display a gold watch. Those first arrivals, just like Hong Kong’s native Chinese, went for the Datejust, as it was relatively new and had a date function which was quite the thing back then.

From the late 1950s refugees were poorer, more desperate folk, often fleeing starvation or the Cultural Revolution (1966 to 76 approx). Many were single men, and for them the first item on the shopping list was a transistor radio, but the grail was a Rolex watch, or at least a Tudor, a brand for which many settled (as in those days they looked exactly like Rolex, thereby giving some ‘face’ at least from a distance), and which is still very popular today.

This as I see it (and I am happy to be corrected by our Hong Kong Chinese members) is more or less how Rolex came to be an integral part of Hong Kong life. Go into the Rolex Service Centre any day of the week and you will see the place packed with people of all shapes, sizes, ages, and wealth brackets. Men and women, office girls, rich housewives, old men with their retirement gold Datejusts, and young entrepreneurs with their vintage Daytonas and subs.

The fact that the windows here are piled high with Rolex watches doesn’t show any disrespect to Rolex, but rather, on the contrary, it reflects a huge respect, and huge inventory, that has built up over the last 80 years or so.

Hans Wilsdorf’s death in 1960 made Front Page news in the local papers here. I doubt that was the case in many cities worldwide."

Great post!
Very interesting & front page news is a powerful testament

[watchyou]

Originally Posted by jedly1

we get them in the same way i guess anyone gets used stock, through a combination of ways, networks and connections, everyone is a little different i guess.

once you are a dealer , there are of course things like part exchange, trades, general public contacts, trade shows etc etc ...but the real good gems come from original owners or people very close to them. buying properly from them takes...

1. steady nerves and deep enough pockets to make the deal in cash at short notice, because if you don't someone else will, and deep enough that if it turns out you got it wrong to be able to live with the loss and realise you have no one else to blame and all you can do is move on and write the cash off.

2. enough experience of both transacting ( to not get scammed) and of knowing the difference between authentic and non authentic , condition and grading that you don't end up having to deal with point 1 and be prepared to drop everything and travel at short notice....



3. a network of leads generation that takes years to build up , jewellers shops, rolex ad's , auction houses, door-knockers, estate sellers, modern dealers, pawn brokers ...etc etc ...that all know that if they stumble on something nice , you'll be the first person they call, never begrudge them their profit or their finders fee for any lead that does come to fruition and be prepared to buy a lot of crap and kiss a lot of frogs for years to keep those connections alive.

4. pay fairly. if the seller resents the fact you'll have a margin for adding your expertise then you'll never make them happy, but most get it...pay a fair price and people will seek you out to sell to.


not rocket science is it.

I agree.

[lhanddds]

Thanks for the insight Jed and Jacek


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[Netminder1]

I love this place (TRF)! Only here could someone ask an innocent question regarding the secret formula and have the well-respected title holders jump in and freely discuss the secrets to success (namely, hard work, years of experience and a willingness to take risks while jumping all-n).

Could you imagine Apple, Samsung, Google and Microsfoft asking each other for the keys to their kingdoms and saying sure, no problem, here's the code?

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by jfmiii

I understand they would most likely never divulge their sources but where do dealers like HQ or Eric Ku find vintage pieces in such amazing condition at a price where they can make money on the resale? Where do they find the seemingly endless supply of amazing pieces?? Something ive always wondered and I wouldnt be surprised if no one here knows the answer.

The top dealers with "deep pockets" looking for vintage sport Rolex watches
attend around 15-20 or more watch shows a year...while attending these
watch shows they will make a deal for absolutely top dollar if the watch
deserves the price...with a smaller dealer who got lucky and bought
a vintage Submariner or GMT for less than market value.

So now the smaller dealer is hooked and the top vintage trader has become
the bread and butter of his business - who do you think they are going
to call if they find another like that (?)

Remember "working" that many watch shows you buy a few beers and a few
dinners and you "create" relationships with Greeks, Israelis, English, French
Americans, Japanese, Chinese etc etc.
After a few years you have 500 smaller dealers who will call you first
when they find the "money maker" you specialise in....simple really..

[Rashid.bk]

I don't know where they get them from but I know when I'm ready for a nice vintage piece, there's only one source and that will be Jacek at HQ Milton.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Americanlife

You can always find amazing pieces in Hong Kong and Japan.


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I see good and great examples of vintage in most all grey dealers here in Japan.

The problem with that (when buying in bulk to resale) is getting a Rolex into the US from Hong Kong or Japan. You risk having it confiscated by US Customs. I am sure if you wore one on your wrist you would be fine, but say you bring in 30-40 to sell. Major red flags and hell to pay if caught. Suspect they would all get confiscated.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I see good and great examples of vintage in most all grey dealers here in Japan.

The problem with that (when buying in bulk to resale) is getting a Rolex into the US from Hong Kong or Japan. You risk having it confiscated by US Customs. I am sure if you wore one on your wrist you would be fine, but say you bring in 30-40 to sell. Major red flags and hell to pay if caught. Suspect they would all get confiscated.

That's true, and why if I ever sell a Rolex on TRF I will have to say sorry but no sales to USA. I'd also think twice about buying one from the US (although I have done) as returning it (if necessary for some reason) could also result in confiscation.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by SubKing

It seems john has some very solid documents from rolex supporting his claim. This all started when the first watch that that John had sent to RSC for a routine service came back with documents stating it was not all original rolex..

But when John decided to have some others checked out by RSC as he felt un-easy after his first watch came back un-legit, 80% of the watches came back from rolex with paperwork stating that parts are not original rolex parts.

Imo, I don't think Maron stands a chance with the solid poof John has against him.. With the dollar amount being so high, The court could subpoena Rolex to send a rep in to testify if it goes that far.

Interesting if he has more than an invoice stating the watch contains non Rolex parts and maybe which parts they deem non Rolex. If Rolex is deposed, it will be interesting if they only state the "document" is indeed their stance on the watch(es) and if asked how the determination was made, they claim intellectual property/trade secrets.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Interesting if he has more than an invoice stating the watch contains non Rolex parts and maybe which parts they deem non Rolex. If Rolex is deposed, it will be interesting if they only state the "document" is indeed their stance on the watch(es) and if asked how the determination was made, they claim intellectual property/trade secrets.

I'm betting it will be settled out of court...

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

I'm betting it will be settled out of court...

I'd hope not but I'm afraid you're quite right.

[jolimont]

Originally Posted by jedly1

not rocket science is it.

Lol yes..sounds like it is

[omitohud]

Have u guys thought about consignment?


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