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Old 11 December 2017, 03:59 AM   #31
daveathall
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I don't know where this is coming from Dave, but I'm genuinely sorry if that's how I've come across. Please let's be friends and let me try to set the record straight before this goes any further.

First, I'm certainly not anti flu vaccine, but I am anti flu! I'm also pro education, and that's why I've solicited the advice and opinions of others, yours included.

There seems to have been a misunderstanding, and the onus is clearly on me to explain myself better if that's the case. Rather than accuse me of trolling, would you consider accepting my apology for not articulating well my views, and can we start over as friends?

If you were here I'd even shake your hand.

Well, that's fair enough, perhaps I went "overboard" I will delete my post, but thank you for yours.

You have my hand.
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Old 11 December 2017, 04:04 AM   #32
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Well, that's fair enough, perhaps I went "overboard" I will delete my post, but thank you for yours.

You have my hand.
Thank you Dave, sincerely.




Now where's that hand sanitizer.
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Old 11 December 2017, 04:14 AM   #33
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At 50 years old, I’ve never had flu so it’s not something I worry about. I shake hands with clients very often; in the gym I fist bump.

As mentioned above, I would tend to avoid shaking hands with someone who’s just coughed into their hands.
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Old 11 December 2017, 04:44 AM   #34
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Sure, just don't rub your eyes or touch your month until you wash your hands. As parents it's easy for mom and dad to avoid or at least take precautions, but impossible to get their kids to follow the same rituals. Hoping for the best this year!
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Old 11 December 2017, 04:56 AM   #35
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No problem shaking hands. The few times I have gotten very sick over the last decade seem to have happened after flying.


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Old 11 December 2017, 05:09 AM   #36
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No problem shaking hands. The few times I have gotten very sick over the last decade seem to have happened after flying.
Excellent point as recirculating air (e.g. airplanes, hospitals et al) all contribute to airborne viruses being spread. Oftentimes very little we can do about it.
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Old 11 December 2017, 06:18 AM   #37
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I always will shake ones hand . If someone doesn't want to, maybe I am wrong, but I will certainly call them out on it.
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Old 11 December 2017, 06:24 AM   #38
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I will always give a handshake, I'm not gonna get the flu anyway.
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Old 11 December 2017, 06:41 AM   #39
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Article from WebMD (2007)...
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/f...s-what-works#1
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Old 11 December 2017, 07:20 AM   #40
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Good to see you back BC. As for the handshake, no problem at all.
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Old 11 December 2017, 07:21 AM   #41
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I do my rounds of handshakes, and then typically go to the restroom to wash my hands. I never used to do this, but even at a white collar office, I've seen too many guys not wash their hands after using the bathroom.
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Old 11 December 2017, 07:31 AM   #42
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wearing disposable rubber gloves could solve this problem...maybe even become a designer fashion statement.
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Old 11 December 2017, 07:59 AM   #43
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The few times I have gotten very sick over the last decade seem to have happened after flying.
Seems to happen to me after being around my sib's kids. Germ factories, they are!

The biggie could be washing hands discretely after the round of greetings. But I'm not a doctor ...
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Old 11 December 2017, 08:04 AM   #44
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I am a handshake kind of guy, but it seems like fewer people are shaking hands these days.

The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if shaking hands is eventually banned in the workplace and deemed sexual harassment.
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Old 11 December 2017, 08:10 AM   #45
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Anything that someone else touches (or comes in physical/aerial contact) is a potential channel.

Example: Guy uses a public restroom and exits without washing his hands. Door handle is now contaminated. Having seen this far too many times, I always grab a paper towel and turn the handle on my way out. No point inviting an intestinal flu or dysentery. At an Oakland A's ballgame several years ago, I witnessed one of the food workers leaving a restroom stall without washing his hands. Two innings later while grabbing a beer, I saw the same guy placing lettuce/tomatoes on hamburgers at the food concession stand.


Definitely one of the filthiest (and yet most valuable) bug transmitter.

Very honorable of you.
Let me get this straight. The guy was was making hamburgers with BARE hands and no food service gloves? Disgusting. No restaurant/concession stand should ever let employees prepare food without gloves.
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Old 11 December 2017, 08:16 AM   #46
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Yes, I’ll shake my hands; however, will be damn sure to wash my hands ASAP after. If I see someone coughing, or sneezing, will turn away/walk in the other direction. I’ll make sure to exercise, eat healthy, and try to get sufficient rest.
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Old 11 December 2017, 09:00 AM   #47
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Interesting to see so many come to the defense of the handshake, even when faced with one of the worst flu seasons in recent time.

Despite our current use of the handshake as a greeting or gesture of friendship, keep in mind its rather less than congenial origin. In Medieval Europe, the handshake was to check that neither man had a knife hidden up his sleeve and the shaking gesture was an attempt to shake loose any hidden weapons.

Maybe they had it backwards. Maybe the hand was the weapon.

Consider the following:

In light of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, the dean of medicine at the University of Calgary, Tomas Feasby, suggested that fist bumps may be a "nice replacement of the handshake" in an effort to prevent transmission of the virus.

And...

Following a 2010 study that showed that only about 40% of doctors and other health care providers complied with hand hygiene rules in hospitals. Mark Sklansky, a doctor at UCLA hospital, decided to test a "a handshake-free zone" as a method for limiting the spread of germs and reducing the transmission of disease.However; UCLA didn’t allow the ban of the handshakes outright, but they rather suggested other options like fist bumping, smiling, bowing, waving, and non-contact Namaste gestures.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...n-the-hospital

Consider that even the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates 80 percent of all infections are transmitted by contact from the hands.

Furthermore, in an earlier thread on this topic, it was pointed out that the flu was contagious even before a person exhibited any symptoms. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...light=Flu+shot. (Post #28 - thank you Demosthene)

Avoiding handshakes with an obviously sick individual seems therefore a practical, but hardly a comprehensive, solution.

For those who've read this post to the bottom (thank you!), do you remain committed to the handshake?

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Old 11 December 2017, 10:25 AM   #48
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I try to avoid it unless it was a business mandate


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Old 11 December 2017, 11:07 PM   #49
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Walking thru Center City the other day, a cute marketer wanted to pitch her company's deal. Her first step was to attempt to shake hands. I told her, "I'm not into shaking hands. I like to lean forward and get a good sniff".

The conversation devolved into talk of her moisturizers, skin conditioners, and a hint of delicate perfume.

We've now been married for seven years and have three kids.
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Old 11 December 2017, 11:25 PM   #50
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It's a man-nerism. A lot can be gleaned by the way someone shakes your hand.

We sit in shared seating at work, at airports, in public transportation, and restaurants. Do you wash your clothes immediately when you get home, or transfer those germs to your furniture?

Do you use public restrooms? Do you wear those shoes in your house?

My point is, there are more germs to be transferred from other every day activities than to be stressed about a handshake. I would rather risk a few germs on a man's hand than create a very negative perception for refusing to shake a man's hand.
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Old 11 December 2017, 11:38 PM   #51
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It's a man-nerism. A lot can be gleaned by the way someone shakes your hand.

We sit in shared seating at work, at airports, in public transportation, and restaurants. Do you wash your clothes immediately when you get home, or transfer those germs to your furniture?

Do you use public restrooms? Do you wear those shoes in your house?

My point is, there are more germs to be transferred from other every day activities than to be stressed about a handshake. I would rather risk a few germs on a man's hand than create a very negative perception for refusing to shake a man's hand.
I'm not a virologist, but from what I understand the virus has a much more limited viability on many of the surfaces you've referenced.

The hands remain the primary vector in 80% of cases per the CDC.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting we abandon the handshake. Maybe just suspend it during this flu season?
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Old 11 December 2017, 11:43 PM   #52
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The doctors in the articles I referenced above seem to think so..
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Old 11 December 2017, 11:48 PM   #53
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It's a man-nerism. A lot can be gleaned by the way someone shakes your hand.

We sit in shared seating at work, at airports, in public transportation, and restaurants. Do you wash your clothes immediately when you get home, or transfer those germs to your furniture?

Do you use public restrooms? Do you wear those shoes in your house?

My point is, there are more germs to be transferred from other every day activities than to be stressed about a handshake. I would rather risk a few germs on a man's hand than create a very negative perception for refusing to shake a man's hand.
To answer your questions, in order:

1) no
2) don't know, but probably not
3) yes
4) I generally don't wear shoes in my house

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Old 11 December 2017, 11:55 PM   #54
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Only had the flu a few times in my life and only once the last dozen years.
Bacterial pneumonias have been a bigger problem.
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Old 12 December 2017, 12:00 AM   #55
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I just can’t believe what I’m reading!!!!
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Old 12 December 2017, 12:34 AM   #56
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TL/DR version: Handshakes - yes or no?
One question.

People have gotten the common cold, maybe other viruses, probably since the dawn of mankind, whether it be from airborne or touching something they shouldn't.

You're alive, presume since you typed this, and not a bot.

Can you link to statistics showing the number of people, per capita, that have died from such circumstances? Seriously ill would be fine too. I don't mean the Spanish Flu (1918) or the Black Plague or any of the very nasty stuff.

Just talking common stuff around us all the time.
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Old 12 December 2017, 12:36 AM   #57
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I'm not suggesting we abandon the handshake. Maybe just suspend it during this flu season?

"We?" If it bothers you, then don't. Does someone force you to shake hands?

If someone doesn't care, they don't care.

Why would you want to enforce something others don't care about on others?

Do what you want, don't tell others what to do. Sound fair?
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Old 12 December 2017, 01:52 AM   #58
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No problem shaking hands. The few times I have gotten very sick over the last decade seem to have happened after flying.


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No surprises there then. Mrs Van D and me went to Vegas for my 40th, ten years ago. We went to JFK and got a connection to LV from there. As we were landing at New York, I had to go to the bathroom, like right now. A trolley dolly was sat right in front of me and she must’ve either seen the colour of my face or read my mind because she just said “go”. That was the first time in my life I had experienced projectile vomiting. I had to leave the immigration queue twice to toss cookies and shortly after we reached the gate for our next flight, I had the most disgusting experience you could ever imagine. I’m not putting that here though.

Anyhoo, Mrs Van D is an absolute master at shutting the gate after the horse has buggered off. Captain Hindsight is a pimple on the ass of such talent! We’re at the gate for our next flight. I’m dizzy with nausea, white as a sheet, tear stained face from the exertion of trying not to puke myself inside out and I was shaking like a shitting dog. Goodness knows what I must’ve looked like.

She pipes up “Did you open the toilet door on the plane with your hands.”

Me “No darling, I used my teeth.”

Her “No, silly. Did you use your bare hands.”

Me “Well, I left my gloves home in the garage.”

Her “Stop being a tool, you know what I mean!” (I didn’t).

Me “Yes, I used my bare hands.”

Her “Well, I always use a piece of tissue paper to open the door because of the amount of people that go to the bathroom and don’t wash their hands. They then touch the door handle and, soon after, so do you. Ew!”

I’d never considered that but she’s been in the airline industry for over 20 years.

When I flew back here from the UK couple of weeks back, I walked into the toilet and then straight back out. Someone had left ‘something’ on the toilet seat. This was British Airways and in business class. You’d expect people who could afford to fly in that cabin on that airline to at least be toilet trained but obviously not. You would also be surprised at the amount of times I’ve flown business (and remembered to check in ) and gone to the bathroom shortly after the seat belt signs have gone off, I’m about the fourth person or so to go in and the sink area is bone dry. In other words the people before me haven’t washed their paws. There’s some dirty motherfathers out there! Ewwww!

Nowadays, I never touch any toilet door anywhere, other than my own, with bare hands. I always use tissue paper or a paper towel. Toilet doors must be one of the worst sources of infections and bugs.
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Old 12 December 2017, 01:55 AM   #59
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It's a polite way to refuse an extended hand by claiming that you are the one that's been a little sick and you don't want to spread it.
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Old 12 December 2017, 01:59 AM   #60
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"We?" If it bothers you, then don't. Does someone force you to shake hands?

If someone doesn't care, they don't care.

Why would you want to enforce something others don't care about on others?

Do what you want, don't tell others what to do. Sound fair?
It didn't sound like a command to me. Seems he's just making suggestions to help folks stay as healthy as possible during flu season.
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