1966 1601 Date Disc Replacement

[Vintre]

Hello All,

I did a search on the Forum but could not come up with what I am looking for.

I have a 1966 1601 two tone DJ and loving it for a variety of reasons.

I have a few things that I would like to service such as the bracelet stretch and the date disc.

As you can see below, the date disc appears to have been replaced as it is not an open 6. Not a real big deal, but still, I would like to give this watch some attention. I would like to replace the date disc to look like the second picture.

Capture.JPG
Open 6.JPG

I have found a listing on Ebay for the disc below which looks appropriate. Open 6's and 9's (except for 26) and flat 3's, as well as champagne colour.

Ebay disc.JPG

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DATE-DISC-FO...YAAOSw9oFcgTJa

Questions:

1. Does the look appear appropriate?
2. Has anyone bought from this seller? They have sold over 270 so I am assuming, its a good disc.
3. Although the Ebay listing says "SUBMARINER", it also says "Cal - 1570", which is what is in my 1601. Do you think this disc is correct for my 1601?

As always, many thanks in advance for your help.

Sincerely,

Vin

[Richard Carver]

When did everyone decide 60s DJs had open 6/9s? Much easier to find closed ones. :) My 1603 and 1625 are closed as well.









Seriously, where did that come from?

[mrs_LA]

You can look into older Rolex models than 1960s, and you will find open 6 and 9s.

Since you prefer to use Hqmilton, here are some examples.

IMG_4474.jpg
IMG_4475.jpg
IMG_4476.jpg

I could keep going. The general consensus is that closed date wheels are replaced dials beginning the late 80s/early 90s. Though I will happily be corrected if I am mistaken.


Vin, I think the date wheel for yours should be silver, to match the color of the dial.

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[Vintre]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

You can look into older Rolex models than 1960s, and you will find open 6 and 9s.

The general consensus is that closed date wheels are replaced dials beginning the late 80s/early 90s. Though I will happily be corrected if I am mistaken.


Vin, I think the date wheel for yours should be silver, to match the color of the dial.

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Thank you.

I will order the silver.

Do you think that any disc made for the Cal 1570 will work regardless of watch?

Vin

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

You can look into older Rolex models than 1960s, and you will find open 6 and 9s.

Since you prefer to use Hqmilton, here are some examples.

Attachment 1027119
Attachment 1027120
Attachment 1027121

I could keep going. The general consensus is that closed date wheels are replaced dials beginning the late 80s/early 90s. Though I will happily be corrected if I am mistaken.


Vin, I think the date wheel for yours should be silver, to match the color of the dial.

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General consensus?

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...0.html#p561456

[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

General consensus?



https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...0.html#p561456

Yes. General consensus.

I happily stand corrected, but that person’s response and the ambiguity of determining appropriate years (“around”) for when Rolex utilized open/closed 6 and 9s, as well as the “many different variations” comment just continue to make it inconclusive and imprecise. That does not help OP establish if he has a period appropriate date wheel at all.


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[Fredrik]

Hmm, in my limited knowledge closed 6es are appropriate for mid 60s datejusts. I do not think there will ever be consensus(everyone agrees) on anything vintage Rolex by the way.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

Yes. General consensus.

I happily stand corrected, but that person’s response and the ambiguity of determining appropriate years (“around”) for when Rolex utilized open/closed 6 and 9s, as well as the “many different variations” comment just continue to make it inconclusive and imprecise. That does not help OP establish if he has a period appropriate date wheel at all.


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It seems rather specific to me. With vintage Rolex making definitive statements is dangerous so couching information in limited generalities only makes sense. The knowledge base on that forum is deep. Incorrect statements are generally quickly noted.

These things are important, here we have a guy ready to rip out what is most likely an original date wheel and replace it based on I really don't know what.

[mrs_LA]

Sorry, I intended to have “consensus” as a majority view, rather than everybody. I admit that may not have been the right word to say.


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[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

It seems rather specific to me. With vintage Rolex making definitive statements is dangerous so couching information in limited generalities only makes sense. The knowledge base on that forum is deep. Incorrect statements are generally quickly noted.



These things are important, here we have a guy ready to rip out what is most likely an original date wheel and replace it based on I really don't know what.

I agree with you on that. At the same time, you have to see things the other way - he may have paid for a watch that was described as all original, but instead have a datewheel that may not be correct and original.

How does he determine the authenticity of his date wheel without definitive statements?

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[SunTzu]

Originally Posted by Vintre

Questions:

1. Does the look appear appropriate?
2. Has anyone bought from this seller? They have sold over 270 so I am assuming, its a good disc.
3. Although the Ebay listing says "SUBMARINER", it also says "Cal - 1570", which is what is in my 1601. Do you think this disc is correct for my 1601?

As always, many thanks in advance for your help.

Sincerely,

Vin

Just a heads up, although correct looking, that's not a factory original. It's a knock off. Make sure it fits your movement caliber. But it's junk. You can search for genuine ones or see if your watchmaker may have one in his stash of parts.

[Kingface66]

Vin, please don’t buy an aftermarket datewheel for such a nice watch. It’s deserving of an authentic Rolex wheel. Plus, that seller’s MANY negative reviews are worth reading. I’d stay way clear of him and that datewheel.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

I agree with you on that. At the same time, you have to see things the other way - he may have paid for a watch that was described as all original, but instead have a datewheel that may not be correct and original.

How does he determine the authenticity of his date wheel without definitive statements?

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Knowing the people involved, they are definitive enough for me. :)

[Vintre]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Vin, please don’t buy an aftermarket datewheel for such a nice watch. It’s deserving of an authentic Rolex wheel. Plus, that seller’s MANY negative reviews are worth reading. I’d stay way clear of him and that datewheel.

Ok, I got it.

I will pass on that wheel.

Vin

[Vintre]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

How does he determine the authenticity of his date wheel without definitive statements?

And that my new friends, is the $64,000 question.

So, I guess I may or may not have an original date wheel and it may or may not be period appropriate. Ugh!

Don't get me wrong, I love this watch. Its special to me already and is a keeper, but I don't want to be able to look at it 100 times a day and not think, "hmmmmm, but that date wheel".

This Rolex world and especially the Vintage area is tricky. I belong to and am active on a classic car forum. We have manuals, part numbers and definitive statements. Seems a bit easier. You can fairly quickly and accurately determine what was and what wasn't offered during a particular model year.

Oh well, I am still loving it!

Thanks so much for everyone's input as I learn with each post.

Sincerely,

Vin

[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Knowing the people involved, they are definitive enough for me. :)

I understand you don’t question their authority. But, with Vin’s 1966 1601, there are only two situations: that the date wheel is original and correct, or that the date wheel is a later replacement.

Can we establish where he stands? Both are plausible situations. Probably careful examination of the whole wheel, to compare its font with similar, correct and original wheels of the same period (as these apparently exist, I learned today :-) thanks Richard)


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[Vintre]

Originally Posted by mrs_LA

Can we establish where he stands? Both are plausible situations. Probably careful examination of the whole wheel, to compare its font with similar, correct and original wheels of the same period (as these apparently exist, I learned today :-) thanks Richard)


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That would be incredible, thank you!

Let me know what numbers to post a picture of and I will do it!

Vin

[mrs_LA]

Originally Posted by Tex-Avery

There are many variatons of the date wheels. Untill around '60 date wheels had open 6 and 9 and flat 3. From around '60 till '70 they had closed 6 and 9, round 3 and "hooked" 7. From around '70 till the 5-digits again open 6 and 9 and flat 3. And off course many exceptions ;-). Hope this will help.

Here, Vin. You can check the above quoted post from VRF.

3, 6, 7, and 9 would be a good start.


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[Richard Carver]

Well, how does his current disk stack up with the features mentioned in the post? Does it have hooked 7s and round threes as well as closed 6/9s?

[Vintre]

Well, this certainly has been fun. :) That was a lot of Crown turning!

I have curved 3's, closed 6's/9's and hooked 7's.

So you think this could actually be original?

Will post some pictures.

Thanks,

Vin

[mrs_LA]

You and me both, Vin. It has been a learning experience, for sure. Funny, in other forums, I have found sellers to acknowledge or not know whether the date wheel was replaced or not when the question arises regarding open 6 and 9s in vintage datejusts.

[Vintre]

As promised, here are the pictures.

3.jpg

6.jpg

7.jpg

9.jpg

I think I will be keeping the date disc and now focus on finding extra bracelet links so I can fix the stretch.

I do like those open 6's/9's though. Guess I will have to get a watch with those too. ;)

Thanks again to everyone.

This is a great community.

Sincerely,

Vin

[Richard Carver]

I think you are correct in leaving it alone. Let's look at current open 6/9 wisdom. As evidenced by the lovely pic provided by Mrs. LA the dates were open 6 prior to 1960 and open 6s are correct for the 60s and any closed 6s are replacement wheels and open 6s are correct for the 70s.

So where did all these closed 6 replacement wheels come from? From the mothership you say, replacement parts! That's not how Rolex worked in those days, replacement parts came right off the production lines. If current production was open 6s replacement wheels would be open 6s. They would not make a run of closed 6s just to screw with 21st century collectors. The closed 6s are correct for the 60s.

When Hans ran screaming out of R&D saying that we must change date wheels to open 6s from those horrible closed 6s the thrifty Swiss always used up the old part in production. Also, the old part was in the supply line to the RSCs where they would be used up. So trying to put a date on parts is an inexact science at best.

In my research it seems, anecdotally speaking, that closed 6s have a numerical edge in extant watches. It's evident to me there is a period where both closed and open were used in production. The 'replacement' theory simply doesn't work. The date wheel rarely requires replacement, they work for decades without drama. The fact we have high numbers of both open and closed 6s indicates production, not replacement.

In conclusion I think it's evident either is correct.