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Old 8 August 2020, 02:37 AM   #31
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Agree.
Agree with this too
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Old 8 August 2020, 02:51 AM   #32
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I'm not really into the $ hype. What I do know is the $25k I paid for my 5711 at msrp would be money well spent and can/will satisfy my entire life for all occasions if I only choose 1 watch for the rest of my life. I wouldn't advocate paying double retail for it (a different story), at the same time I would never "just" have 1 watch. I would do what you do, Rolex for play/sport/rough and tumble, Patek for dress and AP for in-between.



Sure, the nautilus (in steel and the 5711 or 5980 blue) will get scratches if I don't baby it (I say this having owned both a brand new and a truly beat up 2009 one - see pic and I loved the beaten one up alot since i didn't care using it anywhere; it broke my heart to part with it) but it will still look good in all 3 occasions. I personally find Rolexes not suitable for blacktie/formal but that is me.




Weirdly I prefer the look of the beat-up one! My 5990 is starting to look ‘worn’ but not to this degree...yet!


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Old 8 August 2020, 02:53 AM   #33
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I did not watch the video because listening to that guy talk hurts my ears and makes me feel dumber. I can understand if people enjoy his content just not for me.

I can tell you rolex is by far the number 1 BRAND. Not even close.
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Old 8 August 2020, 03:36 AM   #34
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I did not watch the video because listening to that guy talk hurts my ears and makes me feel dumber. I can understand if people enjoy his content just not for me.

I can tell you rolex is by far the number 1 BRAND. Not even close.
Yup. I’ve been reading how people scam the PPP program and received all this money. They go on spending sprees buying expensive cars and Rolexes. Haven’t read about one that went and bought a Patek or AP yet.
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Old 8 August 2020, 05:54 AM   #35
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In terms of global popularity, I would give that to Rolex for all the marketing they do. I prefer Patek and fewer people know what it is especially non watch people.
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Old 8 August 2020, 09:54 AM   #36
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No doubt Rolex is the number 1 brand in term of popularity and sales. This is indisputable.

However, Rolex is very strong in their professional sport models, which is almost AP-esque. Rolex does not have minute repeaters, celestial, split second, tourbillon, pcc and QP. Nobody buys the Cellini and the watches are not finished to a higher standard. They are a very different brand to Patek to compare in that way. VC is the closest IMO.

While I like a DD and the PM sport, at the similar price range, I will take the 5205 every time personally.
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Old 8 August 2020, 10:20 AM   #37
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Patek AC, Worldtimers, PC, PCC, etc are like Classical music ... meaning there will be always people that appreciate them but as time go by it’s harder and harder to replace that appreciative crowd .
And the last brand standing of these 3 brands (AP, Patek,Rolex) is probably gonna be Rolex.


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Old 8 August 2020, 06:16 PM   #38
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As JC Biver said: don’t even think about comparing yourself to the king with the crown!

Rolex is a powerhouse however with 1million machine produced luxury watches (which is nothing vs the global demand) Rolex is not and will never be a High Horology brand and I think this thread was focusing on High Horology brands mainly PP and AP.
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Old 8 August 2020, 06:44 PM   #39
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Patek AC, Worldtimers, PC, PCC, etc are like Classical music ... meaning there will be always people that appreciate them but as time go by it’s harder and harder to replace that appreciative crowd .
And the last brand standing of these 3 brands (AP, Patek,Rolex) is probably gonna be Rolex.
Just gotta reinvent oneself. Plenty of young people love aucustic movie/tv/video game themes..

Considering how many blue dials, steel refs and casual-ish Calatravas of increasing sizes PP has been churning out in the last decade it seems to me that Patek is aware of the dying watch collector generation issue and is trying to adapt to it in the usual Swiss way (thoughtfully but slow as hell).
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Old 8 August 2020, 08:10 PM   #40
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Rolex is #1 - brand equity, popularity, revenues, distribution, quality at scale, probably profit, product reliability, value.

AP is #1 in customer service and experience, and maintains an uninterrupted legacy/heritage.
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Old 8 August 2020, 08:50 PM   #41
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If we go with objective measures, overall desirability is the current market pricing? Nautilus and Aquanaut are stronger than RO and ROO in that aspect too. This may be due to the control of volume by Patek but isn't that part of the desirability equation?

Of course there are other subjective measures. Individual preference is not really debatable IMO.
I wasn't talking desirability, in this Insta Bling age that means little and is actually more of a curse, no I'm talking superiority in terms of movement, complications and materials used, heck the Nautilus only just got a PC in recent years, they are way behind the ROO/RO lines, but then their higher complications have been focused on their dressier lines, but as the world is getting more casual and younger mentally this transference will progress.
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Old 8 August 2020, 08:57 PM   #42
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If AP dominates the ''sports prestige'' area, it would be in volume alone. Measured by rarity, overall desirability (obviously one partly derived from the other) and what constitutes good taste in terms of design I don't think its even close in favour of the Nautilus/Aquanaut.
Design taste is purely personal and both of these octagons are unorthodox and mostly despised by traditional round watch owners, only when they see their prices do their views start to change, so no design does not count and nor does desirability for me as I alluded to above, the ubiquity that Rolex is cursed with is now invading on Patek, don't know the last time I saw a rapper on MTV that didn't have an all over blinged out Nautilus.
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Old 8 August 2020, 11:22 PM   #43
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The 5711 and 5980 are 120m water resistant...very submergable...
They are but, Patek advises, if you do submerge, you should have the watch pressure tested annually. That concerns me and I am not submerging mine. No such warning from Rolex.
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Old 9 August 2020, 04:46 AM   #44
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ROFLOL!

He needs to check out others brands, as there are better than PP...

...in warranty length

...and service times

...and yes build / quality

...in innovation...

PS: A guy here recently had to have his Panerai serviced, they gave him a Panerai loaner watch. Does Patek provide a loaner timepiece while you wait for service?
Other brands FAIL on brand recognition except Rolex & Patek.....^^^.....

brand recognition > in warranty length, service times build / quality in innovation


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Old 9 August 2020, 04:48 AM   #45
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For those who don't watch his video.......

This is what he had to say....



Nowadays with the rise of the Nautilus prices it's easy to pick Patek, but there are many factors that do not include current market price.

I’m Eric and in this video we’re going to be debating Patek Philippe vs. Audemars Piguet. I've always told people that when comparing the “popular” big three brands the line up is as follows: Rolex is at the bottom, AP in the middle, and Patek is on top. In this debate today we are not taking into consideration the recent high market prices of Patek. We are looking at this from the perspective of branding, models, traditions, and retail prices.

Brand Recognition The first brand that is the master of this is Rolex. You can go anywhere in the world and people will know that a Rolex watch is a thing of value. Although I love AP, I feel that Patek has way more brand recognition worldwide. I would say that in the “expensive’ watch world, right after Rolex everyone recognizes Patek Philippe. They may not know much about an AP, but you show them a very old and thin Calatrava and they will read the name and say omg it’s a Patek Philippe.

Flag Ship Models When comparing the design of their flagship models which right now are the AP Royal Oak and the Patek Nautilus, I like to use cars to help relate to these models. The Royal Oak is more of a sports car like Ferrari or Lamborghini. Sharper lines and more of an aggressive sporty look. While the Nautilus has more smoother elegant lines like those of a Rolls Royce. Although they are two different looks, I notice that sports car guys will have a Rolls most of the times, but many times a guy with a Rolls will not have a sports car. This happens too with Patek. It’s timeless just like a Rolls Royce.

Traditional Leather Strap Models When you put aside the sports models of the two brands and we focus on the other models. Patek is on top. AP has there Jules Audemars line up and the new Code11.59, but these models have not really had much success like countless Patek models have. Some of my favorites like the 5070, 5270, and 5960 are classics. Not to mention my all time favorite Patek models the Celestial and the Sky moon. AP just does not have anything to really compete with them.

Finish and Presentation Both brands have a high quality finish and presentation. Patek seems to go a bit more above and beyond. Even the box tends to have more of a luxurious feel. AP warranty papers come in a book that is nice but Patek has a unique leather folder for the papers and a lot more touches that make you feel like you are really getting more of an experience. AP movements have an amazing finish, but Patek tends to take it up one more notch on finish and presentation.

Brand Tradition Patek seems to be a brand that is more of a family heirloom. Just has that deep root tradition. Patek coined the slogan “You never actually own a Patek, you merely look after it for the next generation”. Genius marketing but true. As much as I enjoy the AP brand, I do not see someone buying a 44mm Rose gold offshore for the purpose of passing it down as an heirloom. Patek never does what is popular. They do what is right for the brand and the heritage.

The conclusion is that Patek Philippe is the next level after Audemars Piguet.
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Old 9 August 2020, 04:52 AM   #46
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Good content. This is an opinion, an educated opinion, but still an opinion nonetheless.
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Old 9 August 2020, 05:29 AM   #47
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I‘ve never understood these one brand vs another brand threads. And I still don’t. It isn’t a contest or a game to see who wins. AP, Patek, Rolex, VC are all brands worthy of ownership and it’s a matter of personal taste when it comes to preference for one brand. Saying “we’re number one” is something car dealerships do and number one can mean almost anything.
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Old 9 August 2020, 06:59 AM   #48
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I buy what sings to me and that's about it. His primary thesis is structured around other people recognizing what one is wearing. Audemars Piguet is my #1, but I do appreciate what the others bring to the table.

I'd dabble in Patek too but between cars and AP's I still have to eat.

My name is Eric as well, and I don't wear shades indoors. That's pretty much it!
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Old 9 August 2020, 08:14 AM   #49
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Wonder how many Swatch watches sell in a year. More than PP easily, and guessing Rolex too. Wonder how many G Shocks sell each year?
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Old 9 August 2020, 10:53 AM   #50
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Owner of both PPs and APs I have a profound respect and admiration for both brands and they are both references in high horology. OK advantage for PP given brand status and overall legacy but to think AP is producing around 20,000 watches less per year, is more in the know and is not afraid of innovating, has a special appeal to me, not even mentioning the fact that they launched the original luxury sport watch and all the complications around it, PP followed on this specific (and very relevant) trend but still is the leader on so many other!

I’ll take both please with a side of Rolex!
medium rare...
+1 This guy speaks the truth! I would just add that the sporty feel of AP in general probably appeals to a bit younger audience than PP. PP has a more formal vibe and there’s nothing wrong with that. Both are great

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I‘ve never understood these one brand vs another brand threads. And I still don’t. It isn’t a contest or a game to see who wins. AP, Patek, Rolex, VC are all brands worthy of ownership and it’s a matter of personal taste when it comes to preference for one brand. Saying “we’re number one” is something car dealerships do and number one can mean almost anything.
Agreed. Just because you are the proud owner of one or the other why lack an appreciation for other fine timepieces? It doesn’t make sense.
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Old 9 August 2020, 11:20 AM   #51
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Only drawback with PP (nowadays) is the hype which makes the brand less subtle. Really miss the good O days!
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Old 10 August 2020, 10:04 AM   #52
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I wasted a few minutes watching an idiot who sold people fake/Frankenstein watches. On top of that he can’t even pronounce Patek....
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Old 10 August 2020, 12:09 PM   #53
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I wasted a few minutes watching an idiot who sold people fake/Frankenstein watches. On top of that he can’t even pronounce Patek....
what
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Old 11 August 2020, 12:47 AM   #54
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Other brands FAIL on brand recognition except Rolex & Patek.....^^^.....

Patek generally is a fail for recognition. Walk the mall wearing a PP and ask people, then do the same with a Rolex while asking people.


Quote:
brand recognition > in warranty length, service times build / quality in innovation
Agree, Rolex is head and shoulders #1 brand.
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Old 11 August 2020, 03:48 AM   #55
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Other brands FAIL on brand recognition except Rolex & Patek.....

brand recognition > in warranty length, service times build / quality in innovation


Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoythemusic View Post
Patek generally is a fail for recognition. Walk the mall wearing a PP and ask people, then do the same with a Rolex while asking people.
You FAIL to understand my post..... I say except Rolex & Patek....

Why would a person walk in a mall and start asking people what kind of watch do I wear......??

I didn't know you do that Steven..... No wonder you sold all your Patek.....

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Old 15 August 2020, 07:41 AM   #56
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Rolex has my heart, AP has my body, and Patek has my soul :)
Rolex has my brawn, AP my eye for design and Patek has my wallet.
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Old 15 August 2020, 08:28 AM   #57
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I'm not really into the $ hype. What I do know is the $25k I paid for my 5711 at msrp would be money well spent and can/will satisfy my entire life for all occasions if I only choose 1 watch for the rest of my life. I wouldn't advocate paying double retail for it (a different story), at the same time I would never "just" have 1 watch. I would do what you do, Rolex for play/sport/rough and tumble, Patek for dress and AP for in-between.



Sure, the nautilus (in steel and the 5711 or 5980 blue) will get scratches if I don't baby it (I say this having owned both a brand new and a truly beat up 2009 one - see pic and I loved the beaten one up alot since i didn't care using it anywhere; it broke my heart to part with it) but it will still look good in all 3 occasions. I personally find Rolexes not suitable for blacktie/formal but that is me.



so nice , the difference in colour between the two dials is so obvious in real life or just the trick of light ?
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Old 15 August 2020, 10:13 AM   #58
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Patek generally is a fail for recognition. Walk the mall wearing a PP and ask people, then do the same with a Rolex while asking people.
THIS. Then again, I like PP for exactly this reason. You can wear most PPs worth many multiples of a Rolex and still have less probability of getting jumped
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Old 16 August 2020, 10:54 PM   #59
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You FAIL to understand my post..... I say except Rolex & Patek....
My bad, missed that.


Quote:
Why would a person walk in a mall and start asking people what kind of watch do I wear......??

I didn't know you do that Steven..... No wonder you sold all your Patek.....

Agree i tend to be 'different' than others. And also agree, virtually no one cares about the watch you wear. They don't care what i wear either. It's not like we're curing cancer or anything.

As a side note-ish, i'll randomly ask people about timepiece, hi-fi (and music) too. It's a 'boots on the ground' study to see what people think about various things. From music to the economy to.... many things. Of course it's nice to simply be within a situation where you can observe the direction of the herd on a broad level, too, as the years pass.

Single-brand loyalists are wonderful myopic fanboys, and i was that way during 2000 for PP. Twenty years ago is a long time, and the landscape for enthusiasts has changed for the better since then. Higher precision in manufacturering, new materials / science, etc. plus many new movements are now regulars within horology that was not present during 2000.

By opening my mind to many other creative accomplishments in horology it gave the oppertunity to appreciate many manufacturers... innovation.... and gain a better understanding in following the upward and downward trend of others. Sure no single brand holds all the keys, and there is no #1 brand in every aspect of our hobby. Since i work around magnets, for example, there are times when the independantly METAS-tested OMEGA would be #1. For mechanical timpeice accuracy, Rolex's Daytona has a tried and true proven track record. If you need high dualbility.... or your profession is as a deep sea diver....

No single brand is #1. Am avoiding the whole flipping watches argument, as then you're obviously not an enthusaist imho, you're a profiteer. Maybe PP is #1 in that reguard?

What is their next 'limited edition', and can you get it with a Tiffany stamp on the dial? Maybe the 'limited edition' PP Hodinkee on the dial will be more valuable? How many 'limited edition' timepieces has PP offfered in only the past 20 years (2000 to 2020) as compared to the prior 20 years (1980 to 2000)? PP could be indeed #1 in that.

JMHO
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Old 16 August 2020, 11:53 PM   #60
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Interestingly the #1 watch brand by revenue is Apple (Rolex is #2).
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