Tony (Spartan) Manikis Should be banned from TRF forum

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by FTX I

The seller should have solved the 200 bucks issue before this mess. No question. But, at this point and reading both stories (no proof yet presented here) I can easily say I would avoid Tony "Spartan" Manikis at all cost and would buy a watch from Tempoking.

What?

Why would you avoid Tony?

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

What?

Why would you avoid Tony?

Wesley, this thread is going for days, so we can think about it longer.

1- Tempoking was wrong saying 2 year warranty. Specially for vintage. That way, he should have honored, but reading his answers it seems to me he tried to solve the problem using his independent guy. No prolem using this source IMHO.

2- Tony should have serviced the watch right away. If he is a dealer, more so.

3- If Tony was a first time buyer I could change my mind but he is not. From what I read so far I would never deal with him. He is clueless of basic principles of vintage watches, so I would never trust him as seller as well.

This is my humble opinion.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Wesley, this thread is going for days, so we can think about it longer.

1- Tempoking was wrong saying 2 year warranty. Specially for vintage. That way, he should have honored, but reading his answers it seems to me he tried to solve the problem using his independent guy. No prolem using this source IMHO.

2- Tony should have serviced the watch right away. If he is a dealer, more so.

3- If Tony was a first time buyer I could change my mind but he is not. From what I read so far I would never deal with him. He is clueless of basic principles of vintage watches, so I would never trust him as seller as well.

This is my humble opinion.

I am no vintage expert, but I do think you make a good point. If you buy a vintage watch, it's probably a good idea to get it serviced or at least looked at asap to make sure that everything checks out.

What I don't agree with is why the blame is being shifted to Tony. It doesn't matter if this is the first watch he buys from TRF or the 1000th. When you buy from a trusted seller, do you ever think "Hmm, I hope this watch is 100% authentic" ? With vintage watches, maybe that's what people think. I wouldn't know. When dealing with a trusted seller, something like that should never cross your mind. That's what I think. Having said that, trusted sellers are not infallible. They are all capable of making mistakes. I'm sure all of our trusted sellers have made a mistake or let something get past them that wasn't right, but how they handled it is worth noting.

We can keep going on and on about this, trying to determine who is at fault, should TempoKing pay Tony, etc... but after all of this, I can guarantee you that the cost of this bad transaction will be much greater than a $200 crystal and that is a real shame.

[FTX I]

You are absolutely right Wesley. This mess for 200 bucks is ridiculous.

But please lets face vintage watches are different from new ones. We worry to death that we buy a brand new watch from DavidSW, Sohail and all the great guys here and find out it has fake parts inside. Who would not be afraid of that..

But this is not the case here.

When you buy a vintage watch it MUST be serviced right away. Having done that Tony would have means to adress Tempoking and this mess would not have happened. And even one year later Tempoking tried to find a solution but Tony refused.

Its not reasonable for a buyer to get a 30 yrs old watch, wear it for a year without service, and then out of the blue demands a full Rolex service from the seller. If he was a first time buyer I would accept this nonsense. But if he is a watch dealer I can only have doubts on his character and his intentions. Tempoking tried to work this thing out and Im sorry for him and not for Tony.

[Takemusu]

Originally Posted by chaisson

Relatively new here. See a lot of recommendations to "Buy from a trusted seller" on this site. Kind of of makes you second guess after reading this........just saying.

True. But more I think the buying process will change a bit from an expectations and communications standpoint. Particularly concerning challenges to authenticity and conflict resolution. In the end I think the process will be better for it.

[mannyv11]

Originally Posted by FTX I

You are absolutely right Wesley. This mess for 200 bucks is ridiculous.

But please lets face vintage watches are different from new ones. We worry to death that we buy a brand new watch from DavidSW, Sohail and all the great guys here and find out it has fake parts inside. Who would not be afraid of that..

But this is not the case here.

When you buy a vintage watch it MUST be serviced right away. Having done that Tony would have means to adress Tempoking and this mess would not have happened. And even one year later Tempoking tried to find a solution but Tony refused.

Its not reasonable for a buyer to get a 30 yrs old watch, wear it for a year without service, and then out of the blue demands a full Rolex service from the seller. If he was a first time buyer I would accept this nonsense. But if he is a watch dealer I can only have doubts on his character and his intentions. Tempoking tried to work this thing out and Im sorry for him and not for Tony.

I apologize if I read the other posts wrong. But from my understanding he did not ask tempo king for a full service. He asked for the non rolex crystal to be replaced on tempo kings expense. Completely different than demanding a full service on tempo kings dime.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by FTX I

You are absolutely right Wesley. This mess for 200 bucks is ridiculous.

But please lets face vintage watches are different from new ones. We worry to death that we buy a brand new watch from DavidSW, Sohail and all the great guys here and find out it has fake parts inside. Who would not be afraid of that..

But this is not the case here.

When you buy a vintage watch it MUST be serviced right away. Having done that Tony would have means to adress Tempoking and this mess would not have happened. And even one year later Tempoking tried to find a solution but Tony refused.

Its not reasonable for a buyer to get a 30 yrs old watch, wear it for a year without service, and then out of the blue demands a full Rolex service from the seller. If he was a first time buyer I would accept this nonsense. But if he is a watch dealer I can only have doubts on his character and his intentions. Tempoking tried to work this thing out and Im sorry for him and not for Tony.

It's time to check Tonys request again.

[Blong]

Originally Posted by FTX I

You are absolutely right Wesley. This mess for 200 bucks is ridiculous.

But please lets face vintage watches are different from new ones. We worry to death that we buy a brand new watch from DavidSW, Sohail and all the great guys here and find out it has fake parts inside. Who would not be afraid of that..

But this is not the case here.

When you buy a vintage watch it MUST be serviced right away. Having done that Tony would have means to adress Tempoking and this mess would not have happened. And even one year later Tempoking tried to find a solution but Tony refused.

Its not reasonable for a buyer to get a 30 yrs old watch, wear it for a year without service, and then out of the blue demands a full Rolex service from the seller. If he was a first time buyer I would accept this nonsense. But if he is a watch dealer I can only have doubts on his character and his intentions. Tempoking tried to work this thing out and Im sorry for him and not for Tony.

Based on this analysis shouldn't Tempoking have had the watch serviced by Rolex prior to selling it to another individual? Rolex would have discovered the issue with the crystal prior to Tempoking selling it to Spartan and this issue never would have happened if Tempoking had it fixed.

[FTX I]

Gentlemen, I will say for the last time: if you buy a vintage watch for yourself you must service it right away. That would have been decisive. This is my humble opinion and if this is a diferent opinion from the majority here, I still own the right to it.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Gentlemen, I will say for the last time: if you buy a vintage watch for yourself you must service it right away. That would have been decisive. This is my humble opinion and if this is a diferent opinion from the majority here, I still own the right to it.

Of course you're entitled to a humble opinion but in my opinion (I assume I'm entitled to one as well) it has nothing to do with this thread.

[Survivor]

Maybe its the trusted seller who should be banned????

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Of course you're entitled to a humble opinion but in my opinion (I assume I'm entitled to one as well) it has nothing to do with this thread.

Mon, I will not engage a discussion with you because I will loose everytime.

That said, I would be ashamed to contact a seller after a whole year asking anything about a vintage watch I got from him. This is not reasonable in my opinion. Tempoking is right? Absolutely not. He let this come to this point and its pathetic. But Tony deals with watches and the way he handled it has no excuse in my book.

Now guys please just stop quoting me alright. All of you. Feel free to beat up Tempoking as I will not change my mind.

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Of course you're entitled to a humble opinion but in my opinion (I assume I'm entitled to one as well) it has nothing to do with this thread.

Of course, even you the right to have an opinion.

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by Survivor

Maybe its the trusted seller who should be banned????

Nowdays there are no trusted sellers, the last year have been shocking in the watch business in terms of sales.

[brianrx74]

I just finished reading both threads. It's a shame to see this happen with a trusted seller for a measly $195. I hope new members looking to purchase a Rolex on TRF realize this isn't an everyday occurrence with the other sellers here.

[Survivor]

Originally Posted by Jocke

Nowdays there are no trusted sellers, the last year have been shocking in the watch business in terms of sales.

Good point Jocke. I live here in Los Angeles and Robert Maron has turned the pre-owned/vintage market into a wreck. His long history of counterfeit parts, misleading high end clients, etc. was finally brought to the public light with the recent John Mayer lawsuit. What a shame

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Originally Posted by Jocke

Nowdays there are no trusted sellers, the last year have been shocking in the watch business in terms of sales.

I have to strongly disaggree with this statement, there are many of us that would NEVER take anyone in any way, alone because of our personal deep inner morals and conscience.

most of these little skirmishes in the past year have been just that, little skirmishes with no intentions in taking anyone, just disaggreements.

1 or 2 have been deliberate, with sellers from questionable international countries.

[canwatchco]

Where on earth did anyone get the impression that Tony is a dealer? He is a consumer. A watch hobbyist, and a Rolex lover.

It is my understanding that Tempoking has now reimbursed Tony for the crystal.

I am sure we will hear from both parties soon enough.

[mfnj]

Originally Posted by canwatchco

It is my understanding that Tempoking has now reimbursed Tony for the crystal.

I am sure we will hear from both parties soon enough.

[Jocke]

Originally Posted by anderl712000

I have to strongly disaggree with this statement, there are many of us that would NEVER take anyone in any way, alone because of our personal deep inner morals and conscience.

most of these little skirmishes in the past year have been just that, little skirmishes with no intentions in taking anyone, just disaggreements.

1 or 2 have been deliberate, with sellers from questionable international countries.

Of course there are plenty of "trusted sellers" that I would buy from. But in bad times, people who live on the trade do
desperate things. Here in Europe, we also see a lot of scams from so-called "trusted sellers" and at Ebay too.

I do not point out any particular but just say that for me there is no "trusted sellers", the buyers must do their homework.

[unclesallie]

Originally Posted by Jocke

Nowdays there are no trusted sellers, the last year have been shocking in the watch business in terms of sales.

Without reference to the specifics of this thread
or either of the individuals involved,
I have to agree about the vintage market.
A gentleman I know authenticates vintage
watches such as Red Subs and Paul Newman
Daytonas. He told me there are shops that
specialize in making dials, hands, and cases
look authentic. It takes a real expert to
very carefully examine the watch to tell the difference.
These forgers are major leaguers, and their products are
in no way readily detectable like the $100.00 variety
on the streets of major cities all over the world.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by unclesallie

Without reference to the specifics of this thread
or either of the individuals involved,
I have to agree about the vintage market.
A gentleman I know authenticates vintage
watches such as Red Subs and Paul Newman
Daytonas. He told me there are shops that
specialize in making dials, hands, and cases
look authentic. It takes a real expert to
very carefully examine the watch to tell the difference.
These forgers are major leaguers, and their products are
in no way readily detectable like the $100.00 variety
on the streets of major cities all over the world.

At a major watch show recently I heard and saw the story of a guy who paid 33k cash for a vintage rolex walked around to show it to people and was told it was fake. He tried to return it and the dealer said no way. He tried to get others involved and again no way all sales are final. I can think of no place safer than the forums to buy a watch.

[Survivor]

Originally Posted by canwatchco

Where on earth did anyone get the impression that Tony is a dealer? He is a consumer. A watch hobbyist, and a Rolex lover.

It is my understanding that Tempoking has now reimbursed Tony for the crystal.

I am sure we will hear from both parties soon enough.

Makes sense that Tempoking would do at least that..........he came off really poorly in this this thread.....

[doubleroll]

I am no expert, not even a vintage watch guy. Also, I am sure both seller and buyer are good guys and probably just a mis-interpreted email or two led to this mess.
However, if a seller advertises a watch as authentic, shouldn't the responsibility be his to confirm this before hand? After all he is a trusted seller...he should make it right without offering additional services.

This confirms my hesitation on buying vintage or second hand.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Tridor]

Originally Posted by doubleroll

This confirms my hesitation on buying vintage or second hand.

Bingo!

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by greekbum

I have no beef in this whatsoever but has anybody proven the crystal to be a fake or counterfeit? There is a lot of emotions here as to somebody selling counterfeit parts on a watch and imho this is totally wrong and misleading. No they have not and i will tell you right here why they have not and cannot. Rolex did not make there own crystals in this time period and they are not marked as Rolex. So if 1 uses the word or term counterfeit they are wrong and i doubt that Rolex would write this on any Rolex letter head estimate. 2 non Rolex crystal term or wording would even be 100% correct as they did not make the crystal to begin with. So crystal gurus out the please tell us how on this specific crystal one can claim counterfeit or even aftermarket? Please produce a document from Rolex that says the crystal is counterfeit. If I bought a watch from somebody and I thought a part was fake etc i would think i would have to prove it to try and get something out of the seller. Im done here but would really like to see a document on how somebody came to the conclusion the crystal was counterfeit? Anybody?

I do not know how other Trusted Sellers handle this kind of situation. I know how Nick handles it.

I bought a matt dial GMT 16750 from him. It looked pretty good, Nick takes some great photographs, and the clincher was it had been checked out by a CW21 watch repairer. It came exactly as described.

I liked dealing with Nick so well; I bought a matt dial Sea Dweller 16660 from him. It also came exactly as described, except the pin on the clasp, holding it to the bracelet seemed a little wonky. I sent him pictures and he told me to send it to ABC Watchwerks and have them fix it.

I told him the 16750 was off by 25 seconds a day. He said it should not do that and to send it to ABC.

I like to know who I am dealing with, so I drove down to ABC. I was quite impressed by the knowledge and service by everyone there.

They took the 16660 in for repair and looked at the 16750.

I am a watch guy, not a technician, so please excuse me if I get the vernacular wrong. They said something about the rotor being slightly bent. They repaired it while I was there. In the next couple of weeks the 16750 was now running about 20 seconds off.

When I got the call that the 16660 was repaired, I picked it up. ABC does great work and I was very happy about the repair. I dropped off the 16750 to have them take a look at it and why it was 20 seconds off.

I got a call back from ABC apologizing that there was much more wrong (they told me what it was and it went over my head, I think it had something to do with rotor alignment) with the watch and it needed a full service. ABC gave us a discounted price, and Nick and I agreed to split the cost.

Would I buy another watch from Nick, yes! When I look at the sales section, I always look at his ads. He is what I look for in a Trusted Seller.

The CW21 watch repairer, not so much. That was a pretty big goof! jmho

[GregoryZ]

Originally Posted by Survivor

Makes sense that Tempoking would do at least that..........he came off really poorly in this this thread.....

I agree!

[Kevin.S]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Gentlemen, I will say for the last time: if you buy a vintage watch for yourself you must service it right away. That would have been decisive. This is my humble opinion and if this is a diferent opinion from the majority here, I still own the right to it.

Agreed

[Kevin.S]

Originally Posted by Jocke

Nowdays there are no trusted sellers, the last year have been shocking in the watch business in terms of sales.

Whenever a lot of money is evolved,,,,,trust becomes suspect
human nature, very unpredictable.

[Spartan]

Hello everyone,

I am happy to report that TEMPOKING (Anastasios) has sent me $200 to cover the cost of replacing the crystal. For me this matter is now closed.