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Old 21 October 2017, 01:33 AM   #121
roach7
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actual item images?
Unfortunately no, I use stock photos for new watches as every watch is the same
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Old 21 October 2017, 01:34 AM   #122
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has the buyer contact info been confirmed by pp and/or ebay? is the buyer verified and is the phone number still in service?
I do have a number for the buyer on the Ebay system but should I confront him now or wait until I see what I get back?
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Old 21 October 2017, 01:36 AM   #123
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Unfortunately no, I use stock photos for new watches as every watch is the same
this adds to the challenge.

anyway, you know what you need to do going forward. lets see what gets sent back.

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Old 21 October 2017, 01:43 AM   #124
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I do have a number for the buyer on the Ebay system but should I confront him now or wait until I see what I get back?
wait.

lets see what comes back.
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Old 21 October 2017, 01:58 AM   #125
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This incident is disturbing -- informative, but still disturbing. I had thought about selling some of my extra watches on eBay -- not now.

I would be interested in reading the PayPal agreement.

In law school they teach students that the definition of a contract is a promise that the law will enforce.

It doesn't take long to learn that the real definition of a contract is a document that nobody reads until there is a problem.
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Old 21 October 2017, 02:58 AM   #126
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this adds to the challenge.

anyway, you know what you need to do going forward. lets see what gets sent back.

X2.. Again sorry for this Bull$hit....
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Old 21 October 2017, 03:51 AM   #127
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This thread has been a fascinating read. I tracked down the PayPal agreement/contract.

In law school they teach students that the definition of a contract is a promise that the law will enforce. It doesn’t take long to learn that the correct definition of a contract is a document that nobody reads until there is a problem.

The PayPal User Agreement section “PayPal’s Purchase Protection Program,” subsection “significantly not as described claim” is disturbingly skewed in favor of the buyer. It is way too easy for a dishonest buyer to cheat an honest seller such as Henry.

There is a PayPal’s Seller Protection Program but it only applies to an “item not received claim.” It expressly does not apply to a “significantly not as described claim.”

I had thought about selling some of my extra watches on eBay – not now.
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Old 21 October 2017, 05:11 AM   #128
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sorry to hear this roach. i would wait and see.

paypal is there to protect buyers not sellers. if you want protection as a seller stop selling on ebay and stop taking paypal imo. the person who is going to decide your fate, at least initially, is someone with limited facts.

i know this is not want you would like to hear based on your feedback #s but i learned long ago ebay is a terrible place full of scammers and hackers.
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Old 24 October 2017, 04:34 PM   #129
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file a police report, and threaten to take the buyer to court. I would even go so far as lettig him know that you will in fact take him to small claims court for the full value of the watch and for the cost of any fees incurred while taking him to court (air fare, gas, missed work, etc) this might be enough to scare him .. it should if he's faking the claim. Nobody wants to be taken' to court for thousands of dollars when in fact they know they are the scammer.

You should actually follow through with this. You have the orginal bill of sale correct? you purchased the watch?
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Old 25 October 2017, 06:25 AM   #130
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file a police report, and threaten to take the buyer to court. I would even go so far as lettig him know that you will in fact take him to small claims court for the full value of the watch and for the cost of any fees incurred while taking him to court (air fare, gas, missed work, etc) this might be enough to scare him .. it should if he's faking the claim. Nobody wants to be taken' to court for thousands of dollars when in fact they know they are the scammer.

You should actually follow through with this. You have the orginal bill of sale correct? you purchased the watch?
Buyer is in a different country. I think by doing all that will probably cost more than the watch itself. The scammer probably count on seller not to pursue any legal action due to cost.
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Old 25 October 2017, 06:26 AM   #131
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Hi Roach7

Did you get the package yet?
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Old 25 October 2017, 06:52 AM   #132
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Based on the tracking # the package is still in Melbourne...
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:05 AM   #133
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What is the shipping date?
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:07 AM   #134
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:09 AM   #135
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Are they so upside down that it takes them more then 4 days to even leave the country?
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:10 AM   #136
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Are they so upside down that it takes them more then 4 days to even leave the country?
I'm hoping it gets lost in transit

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Old 25 October 2017, 07:12 AM   #137
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I'm hoping it gets lost in transit

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Is the tracking # from him or PP?
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:14 AM   #138
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Is the tracking # from him or PP?
From PayPal...
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:30 AM   #139
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From PayPal...
Too bad, then it's probably legit.

I would do the following.

Make sure you're at home when it arrives, give the driver $20, 50 or whatever it takes for him to stay for a couple of minutes.

Film the delivery and the content and make sure the driver and the truck are visible in the clip.

At least this way you have something to show PP.
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Old 25 October 2017, 08:39 AM   #140
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Too bad, then it's probably legit.

I would do the following.

Make sure you're at home when it arrives, give the driver $20, 50 or whatever it takes for him to stay for a couple of minutes.

Film the delivery and the content and make sure the driver and the truck are visible in the clip.

At least this way you have something to show PP.

It's a good idea, I would defiantly give this a go the more evidence you have the better
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Old 25 October 2017, 04:47 PM   #141
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This really sucks... but.... it dawns on me that this thread and others like it are a recipe on how to commit buyer fraud on PP/eBay. Maybe this guy learned this fraud from forums like this.

One other option... essentially this watch has been stolen from you. Did you insure the shipment? Maybe there is an insurance claim? File a police report and use that to claim the shipping insurance.

Moral of the story... don't sell valuable items on eBay or use PP. For things you are comfortable losing it may be fine, but for high dollar items, you take a risk.
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:06 PM   #142
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I do have a number for the buyer on the Ebay system but should I confront him now or wait until I see what I get back?
wait. if buyer is smart he will record your conversation, anything negative or abusive and you will lose your case.

like stated above, have video evidence, have a legal representative, the fed ex driver, or an officer when you open the box.

And yeah you are lucky that the buyer is sending the item back. It pretty much confirms, he had buyer's remorse and didn't want the watch and pay return fees or he's a scammer. Most people don't understand when you claim receiving fake goods or item not described on ebay, you have to put in work, time and money. Than, you have to wait a while for them to make a decision to return your money.

For example, I bought a pair of fake yeezys last year. Since I declared them fake instead of not received, I couldn't return it at all and had to prove it to get my money back. I had to go to a shoe authenticator paid $25 for a letterhead. Ebay wanted me to find another authenticator, paid $50 for a letterhead and some shoe accessories. It took me almost 5 weeks for them to resolve the case in my favor. It was a hassle, but well worth it when I tore up the shoes and sent them to the seller.
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Old 25 October 2017, 07:51 PM   #143
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file a police report, and threaten to take the buyer to court. I would even go so far as lettig him know that you will in fact take him to small claims court for the full value of the watch and for the cost of any fees incurred while taking him to court (air fare, gas, missed work, etc) this might be enough to scare him.

IIRC, the eBay and PP contracts limit members to binding arbitration. But even if a court accepted a case (versus declining it due to lack of standing) - proving fraud is a steep hill to climb.

For the OP, sorry it has happened in your deal. I sold for years on eBay and sidestepped a few scammers - but I always limited my listings to in-country buyers. It’s now much more difficult. I would still sell there except for the combined fees becoming too high.



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Old 26 October 2017, 02:53 AM   #144
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I got fucked on ebay via a diamond district seller when I was 17.
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Old 26 October 2017, 02:58 AM   #145
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That is such a sticky situation but all you can do is gather as much evidence as you can to show them that the buyer is wrong.
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Old 27 October 2017, 11:19 AM   #146
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S o l

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Old 27 October 2017, 02:54 PM   #147
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I had a bad Paypal experience as a buyer. A transaction with someone in Hamburg Germany. I actually called PayPal to verify with them if the seller was legit and in good standing. The idiots said don’t worry, you’re protected and once you receive the item you have 3 days to have it checked out before his money is released. Well, I pulled the trigger...$7500 for a watch.....and I had a bad feeling from the get go....my mistake. All communication stopped from the seller and I immediately called Paypal to open file a claim. Once again I was reassured I was protected. Next day I escalated. Still no communication from seller. I called everyday. PayPal sends me an email saying they have received a tracking number from seller with my address on it. Ok....good...but I still was not contacted. Paypal tells me I lost the case because seller provided a valid Tracking number. Problem was, the package was sent to New York and I live in California. It did not matter to PayPal.....”it’s a valid tracking number and your case is closed”. Then I opened an “item not received” claim. Paypal contacts the seller (still does not matter to them that he had not contacted me once up to that point) and he somehow posts that the package has been forwarded and is on the way to California. “You’re case is closed...in favor of seller”. At this point I became very angry and spoke to several “supervisors” to no avail. Then, I went to the USPS. After much effort, found out the package was still in New York but had no proof. Then I got hold of a postal worker on duty. He was kind enough to take clear pictures of the package. Not surprisingly, it was addressed to someone else...sent by a different person. I submitted that proof and finally won the case. It took a month but I won. Needless to say, I will think twice as a buyer......and no way as a seller. Paypal is not safe. I feel safer wiring thousands of dollars to trusted sellers on TRF. Point is I guess.....keep fighting...call everyday.....don’t waste your time with an operator.....go straight to supervisors....and produce evidence if you have it. Good Luck!
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Old 27 October 2017, 03:01 PM   #148
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File a report with the police and Rolex now! He stated you sent a watch that was fake and the serial number didn’t match. You know he has the watch with the real serial, which is now stolen and he is now in possession of stolen property, which is a felony. He has painted himself in a corner having it. Take the help offered here and have the local authorities to him, knock on his door tomorrow with a search warrant. Act quickly.
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Old 27 October 2017, 04:52 PM   #149
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I read an article on ebay scams that said that once you sign for the package of a returned item, you're screwed. A friend of mine worked at UPS for eons and told me that if you contact the shipping company and request to open the package prior to signing, if you're patient and stay calm, you can weasel permission to do so. You may have to give your sob story a few times and you may have to do it at a delivery center, but if you're persistent you can get the ok to do it. If the package doesnt have your watch, obviously you refuse to sign. That could leave your scammer hanging since its the signature that triggers the refund
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Old 27 October 2017, 05:25 PM   #150
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It’s been a bad week I really could do with a happy ending , I would be bouncing off the celling with frustration . I like the chaps post above and hope it all works out
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