After Manual Wind, Slight Rotation Necessary?

[SolesFly]

I noticed every time after manually winding, after I screw the crown back in, the watch will not start unless I give the watch at least a slight rotation.

Is something disengaged and won't reengage until the rotor moves?

I want to make sure it's working how intended.

[Fabrice M]

It needs to be about 40 full crown rotations. I am pretty sure this is what Rolex recommends.

[CRM114]

No swirl should be necessary.

[SolesFly]

hm, maybe I need to really give it 40 "FULL" rotations? I usually just turn the crown between my index finger and thumb until I have no more traction on the tip of my index and count each as 1. Maybe each of my "1s" aren't quite a full rotation. So would that mean it won't engage on it's own until fully wound, as 40 rotations means a full 48 hr wind.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by SolesFly

hm, maybe I need to really give it 40 "FULL" rotations? I usually just turn the crown between my index finger and thumb until I have no more traction on the tip of my index and count each as 1. Maybe each of my "1s" aren't quite a full rotation. So would that mean it won't engage on it's own until fully wound, as 40 rotations means a full 48 hr wind.

Really that's how I wind mine by ratcheting back and fourth; usually if stopped about 60 times. Usually my watches start running pretty early on in the winding procedure.

[Dirt]

This question comes up from time to time.

Obviously a mechanical watch or clock, fundamentally needs some stored power in the Main spring in order to function at all.
Assuming the mechanism is in reasonable working order, just a little power is required to, make it work or start of its own accord.

Whilst the recommendation from Rolex has quoted a nominal amount of turns in the order of 40 in the past or even 60 turns(in more recent times) of the Winding crown. The figure is not exactly scientific due to variables and is only a guide which is skewed toward the watch functioning pretty much within expected norms and in terms of accuracy.
It is not an absolute requirement in the real world unless there is something amiss with the watch.
I would imagine that 60 turns of the Winding crown would just about bring the Main spring up to full power and it would've started way before then anyway.

From experience, the actual amount of turns required to start any individual watch may vary from time to time.
Sometimes they will start by themselves with a little less than 10 turns or as much as 20 or more.
This is because of the position of the Balance wheel at the very point in time when the watch actually stopped the last time it was running.

Some watch mechanisms have no manual winding capability at all and are totally reliant upon motion to wind and start them. So the number of turns on a Winding crown are actually irrelevant in this case.

Personally I don't pay any attention to the amount of turns required to get a watch going unless there is a suspected problem. Usually this is most relevant when the watch is in need of a service.
Typically, I give the Winding crown 5, 6 or up to 8 or 9 turns and if it hasn't started on its own accord by then I give the watch a very slight sideways shake and it will start.
I then set the time and date as outlined in the manual, put it on and forget about it entirely as the watch will wind up to full power of its own accord through normal wrist movement.
I honestly can't remember when I last put any more than 20-30 turns on the Winding crown to see if the watch will start of its own accord. Maybe 3 years ago now and that was to check the watch as I suspected it needed a service(which indeed it did).

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by CRM114

No swirl should be necessary.

That all depends upon how many turns one cares to put into the Winding crown.

I honestly couldn't be bothered winding and counting to 40 turns(minimum).

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by SolesFly

I noticed every time after manually winding, after I screw the crown back in, the watch will not start unless I give the watch at least a slight rotation.

Is something disengaged and won't reengage until the rotor moves?

I want to make sure it's working how intended.

The position of the Rotor has nothing to do with the watch's ability to start running.
You are on the right track regarding the engagement of the mechanism.
More specifically it's merely related to the position of the Balance wheel and the Escapement.

[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by Dirt

That all depends upon how many turns one cares to put into the Winding crown.



I honestly couldn't be bothered winding and counting to 40 turns(minimum).

This!


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[HONDABBQ]

On both of mine, they usually start on their own around the 20 mark. I continue to 40 every time

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by HONDABBQ

On both of mine, they usually start on their own around the 20 mark. I continue to 40 every time

Same here

[Andad]

I have never bothered to wind up an auto, I just give them a couple of turns and set them.

By that time they are usually running but if not a small shake of the wrist (or a small slap in the face) will usually start them up and they will be fully wound by the end of the day.

Why wind an auto watch - that's what the rotor is for.

[henry333]

After many wind it always start after a light shake. It's normal.

[SolesFly]

Just wanted to let you guys know I did a test today - after 53 turns, it just all of a sudden came to life. I guess since the turns you do with your thumb and index finger may not be complete full turns, it takes a few more turns to get those "40" full turns for a full wind. I think at the end of the day though I rather do like 20 turns and a slight turn of the wrist to get it going lol.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by SolesFly

Just wanted to let you guys know I did a test today - after 53 turns, it just all of a sudden came to life. I guess since the turns you do with your thumb and index finger may not be complete full turns, it takes a few more turns to get those "40" full turns for a full wind. I think at the end of the day though I rather do like 20 turns and a slight turn of the wrist to get it going lol.

You're thinking too hard.

Torque lock from the components resting against each other, or the need to overcome inherent friction, like any other machine, is normal.

Wind it 10 turns, then tap it to reposition everything if you like, it'll start. There is no need to continue to wind it forever just to hope it may auto-start.

If you want something to start every time you click it on, you need something with batteries.

[BannerMan]

Is a slight tap to startup all harmful? I imagine you don't want to thump it!

[jstan9]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Really that's how I wind mine by ratcheting back and fourth; usually if stopped about 60 times. Usually my watches start running pretty early on in the winding procedure.

Mine too...almost right away.

[Singslinger]

I've just bought a new SD43 and in the accompanying booklet Rolex recommends a minimum of 25 winds to get the watch started. I'll try and post a pic of the page ASAP.

[DrMattK]

Originally Posted by SolesFly

I noticed every time after manually winding, after I screw the crown back in, the watch will not start unless I give the watch at least a slight rotation.

Is something disengaged and won't reengage until the rotor moves?

I want to make sure it's working how intended.

Its normal in my opinion, I have a Sub LV and GMT BLNR both less than 3 weeks old and both do the same!

Rolex recommends 25 turns before wearing and after the 25, I typically have to give a little shake. I have tested the precision of both watches and they work well, in fact to my surprise there is more influence of the orientation than anything else!

so relax and enjoy

[kzm40]

My sub 16610 takes quite a few winds, and a twist to get going, my 1680 starts immediately, even after one wind.

[Rushne]

I think it's easiest to understand what's happening when you have read and understood how a mainspring releasing its stored energy in a controlled manner is managed by the balance spring and the escapement.

If I am not wrong, I believe if you wound the watches mainspring fully and were so careful in doing so that you did not move the watch at all, then the balance spring would never receive the nudge it needed to have the balance spring knock the pallet fork back and forth to stop and start the escapement wheel.



If anyone knows better or the truth then please correct me, but a fully wound mainspring without a nudge to the balance wheel will see the pallet lever stuck in a "locked" position

[andyxxx]

I have had a number of auto Rolexs and have never manually wound one. A light shake has always worked.

Infact (and I know you will probably think I am stupid) - I didn't know they could be manually wound.

[MonBK]

I think I have to agree. ^

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Rushne

I think it's easiest to understand what's happening when you have read and understood how a mainspring releasing its stored energy in a controlled manner is managed by the balance spring and the escapement.b

If I am not wrong, I believe if you wound the watches mainspring fully and were so careful in doing so that you did not move the watch at all, then the balance spring would never receive the nudge it needed to have the balance spring knock the pallet fork back and forth to stop and start the escapement wheel.



If anyone knows better or the truth then please correct me, but a fully wound mainspring without a nudge to the balance wheel will see the pallet lever stuck in a "locked" position

Nice visual

I was thinking the same (only without the technical gargin). When I wind my watches I tend to be moving them slightly side to side while doing so ... this is most likely what starts the escapement wheel

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Tools

If you want something to start every time you click it on, you need something with batteries.

[pilotjim]

Awesome pic!

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Rushne

I think it's easiest to understand what's happening when you have read and understood how a mainspring releasing its stored energy in a controlled manner is managed by the balance spring and the escapement.

If I am not wrong, I believe if you wound the watches mainspring fully and were so careful in doing so that you did not move the watch at all, then the balance spring would never receive the nudge it needed to have the balance spring knock the pallet fork back and forth to stop and start the escapement wheel.



If anyone knows better or the truth then please correct me, but a fully wound mainspring without a nudge to the balance wheel will see the pallet lever stuck in a "locked" position

I can't fault this graphic and explanation at all.
Except the graphic is that of a Chronergy escapement which has different geometry and not of a more common/traditional escapement.
It shows how the Chronergy escapement has less friction because both the Pallet jewels do not slide against the side of the Escape wheel teeth like a normal escapement.

Assuming there is enough fresh Lubricant.
From previous experience with a normal escapement, with enough power built up in the Main spring, it would be inevitable it will start of it's own accord at some point with little or no help.
It's effectively impossible to "lock" it up per se.

It's primarily the static friction that simply needs to be overcome for it to start sliding freely one way or another.
The Chronergy escapement less so.
And even less so again for a Co-axial escapement.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Singslinger

I've just bought a new SD43 and in the accompanying booklet Rolex recommends a minimum of 25 winds to get the watch started. I'll try and post a pic of the page ASAP.

Great info

[SolesFly]

Very insightful! I wonder if it your theory is correct as I'm sure even when I wound it up I moved it at least slightly. Thanks for such a great answer!

Originally Posted by Rushne

I think it's easiest to understand what's happening when you have read and understood how a mainspring releasing its stored energy in a controlled manner is managed by the balance spring and the escapement.

If I am not wrong, I believe if you wound the watches mainspring fully and were so careful in doing so that you did not move the watch at all, then the balance spring would never receive the nudge it needed to have the balance spring knock the pallet fork back and forth to stop and start the escapement wheel.



If anyone knows better or the truth then please correct me, but a fully wound mainspring without a nudge to the balance wheel will see the pallet lever stuck in a "locked" position