I was betrayed after all with ”Kermit Flat 4”

[FinWatch]

Today I got a very unwanted telephone call from Rolex:
My Kermit Flat 4 that I bought from Italy, is not Flat 4.
They inspected the watch more carefully in Switzerland than in Finland.
According to serial number: The watch is original black Sub—but not Flat4.
Incredible. I have been betrayed.
My first and last time that I am buying a pre-owned Rolex.
I was stupid: as a rookie I went straight into buying Kermit.
I will publish the name of the shop later on.
Be very careful if you are about to buy a Rolex from Italy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mik8yu]

Curious now. Which shop is it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[harvey]

Oh jeeez sorry to hear about that! : (

[Castlesinthesky]

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. Good luck getting your money back.

[emtee]

Sorry to hear that. Did you pay with CC? They should be able to get your money back.

[Nycturbovr6]

Sorry to hear about this

[MrCowboy99]

bummer... i would let everyone know who it is that you got it from

[padi56]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

Today I got a very unwanted telephone call from Rolex:
My Kermit Flat 4 that I bought from Italy, is not Flat 4.
They inspected the watch more carefully in Switzerland than in Finland.
According to serial number: The watch is original black Sub—but not Flat4.
Incredible. I have been betrayed.
My first and last time that I am buying a pre-owned Rolex.
I was stupid: as a rookie I went straight into buying Kermit.
I will publish the name of the shop later on.
Be very careful if you are about to buy a Rolex from Italy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All LV watches are just normal 16610 subs only difference green bezel insert maxi dial and very slightly different hands.The first models had the flat 4 font on bezel insert, so did the normal 16610 and SD in same time period. Plus the flat four font has been used by Rolex several times over the past 50 plus years.In some countries there is no indication or markings on the watch or papers to indicate its a LV,the only indication on a plastic tag.Are you saying the watch in question had the dial hands and bezel insert changed to make it into a 16610LV?.

[Swiss Mad!]

This is interesting for me because I have recently been looking at LV Subs.

I saw one from Italy on Chrono24 advertised as 'Flat 4' but it was a 2007 model which I thought was very late.

Also, it didn't have the oval 'O' in Rolex nor was the 'Swiss Made' sat over the 28 to 32 minute markers as should be correct for a true flat 4 reference.

Needless to say I passed sorry to hear you got caught out.

If you do not get this resolved with the seller, please name & shame

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

[Bfd70]

Originally Posted by padi56

All LV watches are just normal 16610 subs only difference green bezel insert maxi dial and very slightly different hands.The first models had the flat 4 font on bezel insert, so did the normal 16610 and SD in same time period. Plus the flat four font has been used by Rolex several times over the past 50 plus years.In some countries there is no indication or markings on the watch or papers to indicate its a LV,the only indication on a plastic tag.Are you saying the watch in question had the dial hands and bezel insert changed to make it into a 16610LV?.

I’ve tried to discern the difference in hands and cannot tell the difference. Would you be so kind as to point out how they differ.

[foxy1moo]

That sucks. What about it was faked? Was the bezel itsself a genuine flat 4, or a fake aftermarket one? And does it have the maxi dial and different hands, or just the flat4 bezel placed in?

[ytsethunder]

Originally Posted by Bfd70

I’ve tried to discern the difference in hands and cannot tell the difference. Would you be so kind as to point out how they differ.

The indices and hands are a lot bigger on the LV than on the standard watch. The indices are especially noticeable. I would post a link to a photo I saw the other day, but I don't have a high enough post count

[harvey]

Originally Posted by ytsethunder

The indices and hands are a lot bigger on the LV than on the standard watch. The indices are especially noticeable. I would post a link to a photo I saw the other day, but I don't have a high enough post count

Here’s my D serial reference from 2005 for comparison...

FullSizeRender.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[foxy1moo]

The larger inidicies does sound like the maxi dial. Did Rolex tell you if they were genuine Rolex parts that were used to replace dial/hands/bezel?

If they were, and I understand it’s still very annoying to have been sold something that’s it not what it seems, it is effectively the same as a 16610 that was born an LV, and especially a genuine original flat 4 bezel has value in its own right. If the replacement parts are not genuine Rolex, then it’s of course another story entirely.

[SLS]

Sorry to hear this. Have you contacted the seller and given them the opportunity to make it right? How was the ad listed? Was it 100% original Rolex parts? If so, that is often how sellers work around making frankenwatchss. Good luck, I hope you get this resolved.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by padi56

All LV watches are just normal 16610 subs only difference green bezel insert maxi dial and very slightly different hands.The first models had the flat 4 font on bezel insert, so did the normal 16610 and SD in same time period. Plus the flat four font has been used by Rolex several times over the past 50 plus years.In some countries there is no indication or markings on the watch or papers to indicate its a LV,the only indication on a plastic tag.Are you saying the watch in question had the dial hands and bezel insert changed to make it into a 16610LV?.

Yes: the parts has been changed to make it into 16610LV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[101031-28]

Hi FinWatch, so very sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. I am from Italy and do not trust buying from anyone there, except an authorized dealer. Got scammed a few times too in the past, while living there, I was younger and too trusting. Don't blame yourself for what happened. Can you demand the seller to refund your purchase? I am assuming you have Rolex to confirm your watch is a regular 16610 and not the LV. Again I am very sorry this happened but I am not surprised. Italians have a reputation for doing whatever it takes to make a profit even if that means scamming an innocent person in the process

[Speed]

Originally Posted by padi56

All LV watches are just normal 16610 subs only difference green bezel insert maxi dial and very slightly different hands.The first models had the flat 4 font on bezel insert, so did the normal 16610 and SD in same time period. Plus the flat four font has been used by Rolex several times over the past 50 plus years.In some countries there is no indication or markings on the watch or papers to indicate its a LV,the only indication on a plastic tag.Are you saying the watch in question had the dial hands and bezel insert changed to make it into a 16610LV?.

Ahhh I knew all this - save for the bit about different hands. Fascinating.

Thanks Peter. I learned something new today.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by SLS

Sorry to hear this. Have you contacted the seller and given the opportunity to make it right? How was the ad listed? Was it 100% original Rolex parts? If so, that is often how sellers work around making frankenwatchss. Good luck, I hope you get this resolved.

I contacted the seller—I will hear from them tomorrow. Yes: parts are genuine, it is truly genuine Frankenstein...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[padi56]

Originally Posted by ytsethunder

The indices and hands are a lot bigger on the LV than on the standard watch. The indices are especially noticeable. I would post a link to a photo I saw the other day, but I don't have a high enough post count

Would not call them a lot bigger perhaps 1mm wider.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by foxy1moo

That sucks. What about it was faked? Was the bezel itsself a genuine flat 4, or a fake aftermarket one? And does it have the maxi dial and different hands, or just the flat4 bezel placed in?

All the parts are genuine—that is the reason why professionals here in Finland gave me the information that it is 100% genuine.... But when sent to Rolex, Switzerland, they could track the serial number...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ballzzz]

Wow sorry to hear, I want one of those Kermits one day but there's much to learn before I try and play on that field, just as with vintage.

Good luck making this right.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by 101031-28

Hi FinWatch, so very sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. I am from Italy and do not trust buying from anyone there, except an authorized dealer. Got scammed a few times too in the past, while living there, I was younger and too trusting. Don't blame yourself for what happened. Can you demand the seller to refund your purchase? I am assuming you have Rolex to confirm your watch is a regular 16610 and not the LV. Again I am very sorry this happened but I am not surprised. Italians have a reputation for doing whatever it takes to make a profit even if that means scamming an innocent person in the process

Thank you for your kind words! I have contacted the seller—they will answer to me tomorrow. It is a store that has three shops in Italy... Hopefully they will take the watch back. I will get a verification of all this in English and I will send it ti the seller.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Ballzzz

Wow sorry to hear, I want one of those Kermits one day but there's much to learn before I try and play on that field, just as with vintage.

Good luck making this right.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gaijin]

[dhank]

Sorry for the misfortune. Don't let it ruin the pre-owned market for you. There are many great sellers and pieces out there.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[padi56]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

Yes: the parts has been changed to make it into 16610LV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well sorry for that but while there are those willing to pay crazy money for LV watches expect the trend will multiply.This is why when buying a LV the only true way of checking genuine if not bought from a 100% reliable source. Check serial direct with Rolex, they even fake the plastic LV bar tag today.

[FinWatch]

Thank You all for your support!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Mik8yu

Curious now. Which shop is it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Paradiso Luxury, Italy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superdog]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

Today I got a very unwanted telephone call from Rolex:
My Kermit Flat 4 that I bought from Italy, is not Flat 4.
They inspected the watch more carefully in Switzerland than in Finland.
According to serial number: The watch is original black Sub—but not Flat4.
Incredible. I have been betrayed.
My first and last time that I am buying a pre-owned Rolex.
I was stupid: as a rookie I went straight into buying Kermit.
I will publish the name of the shop later on.
Be very careful if you are about to buy a Rolex from Italy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are blaming the whole country?