I was betrayed after all with ”Kermit Flat 4”

[albaserver]

OMG it's so sad and I'm so sorry for you... Could you post a pic of the dial?

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by omitohud

It’s never happened to me before so I’m wondering. If you bring a Rolex for service with incorrect period but genuine parts, would rsc inform you voluntarily, or you have to ask for it? Because if it’s the former, then there are advantages to getting service by Rsc. No independent watchmaker have access to Rolex database.




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Originally Posted by 123Blueface

If not the way it should be, regardless if genuine parts used, you will hear it from them.

Interesting question. In this case I’m not sure as those parts should only appear on a genuine. LV. I was absolutely certain that mine was 100% and did this to help the buyer.

[subtona]

I never developed an appreciation for a bezel that is a commonly replaceable part.

Not sure why it has become meaningful?

It reminds me of having a special edition caseback.

[imperio]

Slightly off topic, but I was just in an AD looking for a white stick dial fluted bezel ladies DJ 28mm (discontinued last year but some ADs have old stock). The closest one they had was a MOP dial with Roman numerals. I was told that I could purchase that piece and send it in to RSC, requesting for a dial swap to the one I wanted. If this could be done, when I send it in for future sevicing, wouldn't I get notified that the serial number indicated this is a frankenwatch? Or is the AD wrong and this cannot be done in the first place.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

Was surprised by your comment that only Rolex would know the difference between a standard LN & a true LV??

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I understand where you were coming from now

My point was the fact that with a different dial, handset, and bezel insert......a $6,000 Rolex becomes an $18,000 Flat-four LV. I just wouldn’t buy an LV these days without proper provenance. Oh wait......I have one with proper provenance incoming now.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by RickR

Do these 16610LV watches get verified as a true LV during an RSC service?

Rolex don't usually state anything particularly concrete unless asked the question directly in the first instance.

Often they simply make comment, something along the lines of "X, Y or Z parts are modified". If the parts are genuine.

In the OP's case they would make a comment about the watch itself being modified. Again, if the parts are genuine.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by subtona

I never developed an appreciation for a bezel that is a commonly replaceable part.

Not sure why it has become meaningful?

It reminds me of having a special edition caseback.

Or perhaps for that matter a Patent pending case back?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by RickR

No, what I mean is if I have a 16610LV watch with a RSC service warranty card that also says its a 16610LV watch, does that mean they have verified during the service that the watch is a true LV?

One would assume so.
It probably depends upon the current policy of the RSC or Rolex themselves regarding the rigor of the verification process.

If genuine parts were used that pertained to that model. Would they care much?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

i sold a genuine watch only one last year. Prior to sale i communicated with buyer and we agreed that he would pay for a rolex service. This way he got a service card and paperwork stating the lv part and confirmation of the serial number proving the flat 4 was period correct. Paying the extra was not a problem for peace of mind.
Op take comfort in the fact the bezel insert and hands are genuine and worth a good sum.
Perhaps a deal with the seller could prove fruitful.

+1

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by mmmmp

Couldn't have said it better myself!

To OP - I feel for you brother. Nothing worse than looking forward to an exciting purchase and having a monkey wrench tossed into the works.

Hope this gets resolved ASAP.

Best,
Mark


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Thanks, Mark!


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by MonsterSS

awe man sorry to hear that... it really sucks... I hope you can get it resolved!

Thanks!


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

I did, they said they are bigger.

Difficult to see on pictures to be honest compared to actually holding them 1 on 1.

They are easy to identify if one knows what one is looking at.
Dead easy to spot the main differences.
No need to hold them side by side.

It really only gets complicated when looking at font variations on the dials and linking the example to a serial number and or an approximate date of manufacture.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by albaserver

OMG it's so sad and I'm so sorry for you... Could you post a pic of the dial?

Thanks, here:


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Likestheshiny

If it was such a good alteration that it fooled professionals, why are you assuming that the seller was intentionally trying to rip you off? What does the seller say about this?

As I wrote earlier:
Might be that the seller did not know, still waiting for the answer from the seller... They seem to sell Flat4’s all the time...


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by larsr

Reading this thread got me to check the paper work on my 2007 16610LV, which I bought new from authorized Dealer.

The Rolex papers do not have an LV designation. The credit card receipt from the authorized US dealer says 50th Anniv. Sub. and the green hanging tag mentions serial number (which matches Rolex papers) and reads: 16610LV.

Must say I am a little surprised Rolex didn't designate LV on papers...

It's typical of the variations one sees with Rolex.
It can be different around the world.

My Kermit(bought new) only ever had 16610 on all the relevant references.
On reflection I can't even remember if the sales receipt ever had any reference to it being the 50th Anniversary model. It ultimately faded to become illegible anyway.

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by ragsk

Terrible. hope the OP resolves it.

This is why I am scared to buy preowned. I know its a sensible way to do it. I am keen as you save a lot of money but the focus has to be on the reputation of the seller.

Yeah: as they say: always buy the seller first... I did... trusted seller, excellent feedback, three stores in Italy... you never know and it might be that the seller did not know.... For the future: Only new ones for me!


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by datejust24

Damn I’d be super pissed...What recourse do you have in this situation? Sorry to hear this...Be careful out there everyone..there are a lot of low integrity people selling high end watches that will absolutely take advantage of any situation that fattens their pockets..please share who the dealer was OP

I will inform how Paradiso Luxury (Italy) will handle my case... How they are responding to this information, will tell alot...


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

Thanks, here:


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Nice watch
It certainly looks the part.

I would be inclined to keep it, but try to negotiate a reasonable refund from the vendor.
Good luck going forward

[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by 00Seven

Very interesting. Sorry about your misfortune. Did you pay with a credit card? If so, you might try involving them. Hopefully the retailer will honor their "mistake" and make it right.

Thanks... unfortunately I did not pay with credit card—I got invoice... I will let you know how Paradiso Luxury is handling this case...


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[FinWatch]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Nice watch

It certainly looks the part.



I would be inclined to keep it, but try to negotiate a reasonable refund from the vendor.

Good luck going forward

Thanks, let’s see what happens. Maby I am obliged to keep my FranKermitStein-watch and it will certainly be a landmark: Lesson learned.... I can imagine myself telling a story to my future-to-be possible grandchildren: ”This watch.... children... it was summer 2018 and....”


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[Andad]

Originally Posted by padi56

Would not call them a lot bigger perhaps 1mm wider.

On the LV only the minute hand is wider Peter - not both hands.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

Thanks, here:


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Is that an aftermarket green bezel insert? It doesn't look like a good fit?

I would have though that sourcing a maxi dial, original green insert and wide minute hand would have been an expensive exercise.

[TickTockChuck]

Originally Posted by Basel_World

Crazy, the Italian seller you mentioned currently has another fat four LV for sale on Chrono24 for EUR 16500. He even claims it is not yet polished

I was wondering about that. What a scam indeed. I can't see anyone buying from that person again. The Kermits go for quite a premium, so very lucrative for scammers. I would want a full set and verification direct from Rolex before proceeding. Feel sorry for the OP, definitely not his fault. Best wishes to him.

[crazycarlitos]

That’s terrible.

Hopefully the seller wasn’t aware that it was not a genuine LV, and make it right with full refund.
I would not keep such a watch, even at a discount.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by exador

Look where the watch originated...we can imagine where the parts swap took place...

I wouldn’t be so hard on the seller if even Rolex Finland were fooled. However given the evidence from Rolex Switzerland, they should reverse the deal.

This statement is honestly kind of ridiculous and I wouldn’t be surprised if you get infracted for it. Good God. What makes your statement even dumber is the fact that the Hong Kong area is one of the largest purchasers of luxury goods in the world.

[GB-man]

Sorry to hear that man. I bought a watch only early F serial mk1 and sent it to Rolex right away for movement service to verify. Knowing what we know I figured it was a coin toss but I trusted the seller would take it back in the event it was Franken. Fortunately it came back legit.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Sorry to hear that man. I bought a watch only early F serial mk1 and sent it to Rolex right away for movement service to verify. Knowing what we know I figured it was a coin toss but I trusted the seller would take it back in the event it was Franken. Fortunately it came back legit.

What would happen if, just like the OP, you sent it to a different RSC for another issue, however this time they tell you it was a frankenwatch and somehow the first RSC missed this? My point being if one doesn't know any better, how could it detract from one's love of the same watch?

[G'ed]

In my area, there’s case where ppl send in their watch and RSC claimed the crystal is not original. However they’re the first owner and bought the watch from Boutique!

[NoCokeNoHope]

Sorry to hear that OP. People now going very far to build these Franken watches. I was just reading on another forum that people got scammed with 16710 movement swapped from 3185 swapped to 3186.


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[Muxi]

Originally Posted by dmash

This statement is honestly kind of ridiculous and I wouldn’t be surprised if you get infracted for it. Good God. What makes your statement even dumber is the fact that the Hong Kong area is one of the largest purchasers of luxury goods in the world.

Yea, HK is also a good source of good Rolex references.