The current state of Patek and new customers

[Bearxj86]

AP, Journe, RM, Rolex are all going through this in varying degrees. Try asking for an Elegante or Chronometre Bleu at Journe or a basic steel Royal Oak at AP.

With Patek, they would rather sell a sports model to those that actually enjoy the rest of the brand. There is literally no reason for anyone not to buy a Nautilus or Aquanaut at retail - the cost of ownership is zero especially with dealers being a dime a dozen to sell to. As such, given that it is in the interest of every Tom, Dick and Harry to get a Nautilus or Aquanaut at retail, enjoy the heck out of it, and profit while owning it...somethings got to give.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by dauster

my ad told me I need 100k buying history and must include some hard to move piece preferably a grand complication (doesnt have to be PP) and I have spent $35k on two watches so far. I was debating about a ALS Zeitwerk and was promised a 5164A if I buy it. They would have put my name on the certificate if I had pulled the trigger on the ALS. I was also debating a ladies PP for my wife too and that would have resulted in a 5726A on leather strap. Pretty fair but after sleeping on it I was not ready to spend 150-200k on watches during covid. Unsure where I am at now with my AD after I declined but if anything I will buy a porsche next year. I am out of the watch game unless I get a 15500 in SS.

Your AD may well be sincere however one of my closest friends visited a well known Patek AD in London (not our local Patek AD in Yorkshire). He enquired about a particular Patek model that he really wanted and he was assured that if he bought the pilot Chrono 5524G that was in store and available immediately then he would be supplied with the next available reference that he really wanted. Accepting the proposal my friend transferred the full amount on the spot for the 5524 however as he’d traveled to London on the train he left the watch in the store to arrange collecting at a later date. When we went to collect the watch a week later the sales person spoke privately to my friend and informed that he’d made some enquiries about my friend and discovered that he had a very good relationship with a main Patek dealer in Yorkshire and on that basis the AD in London claimed that it would therefore be dishonourable for him to proceed with the sale of the watch that my friend had wanted all along. Obviously this shady AD didn’t offer to refund the 5524 and we left the store with an unwanted watch and a very bitter taste.


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[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by ganiccus

All it takes is a couple of greedy douches with deep pockets to ruin the hobby for hundreds of potential customers. You see that a lot with Rolex especially, rich guys on social media bragging about getting offered hot sports watches on a monthly basis while the rest of the herd is getting the buy,buy,buy undesirables first story.

ADs are getting most of the blame but at the same time, the manufacturers are pumping so much garbage, it's not a surprise when I hear Patek or Rolex ADs dropping their status like flies. My nearest Patek dealer has so many diamond encrusted bezels watches (and it's not just 24's or gondolo's, believe me) on his website, the financial pressure must be immense to be profitable on the brand while dealing with the expectations of so many collectors.

Whenever an AD receives a shipment, they probably feel like I did when I used to collect manga cards when I was young. I would buy a pack knowing I would end up with a bunch of crap that nobody wants in the hope of finding the handful of cards I and my friends would value to make the price of the pack worth its money.

Anyway, I think AP has the best strategy with their boutique setup and the way they seem to care more about welcoming new customers, just too bad they are nowhere to be found in my country yet. They even look like they are going in the right direction with their code 11.59, if AP can turn that collection towards a success, the one trick pony brand may end up with a deeper lineup than Patek in a couple of years. Definitely a high horology brand I would rather invest my energy and money than Patek right now, I feel they have a lot of room to grow and they are doing of lot of good things in my book.

I think many collectors do not fully understand Patek or AP - understandably so. I will drop a quote from a very respected member of the watch community - I too have heard similar statements from other seasoned collectors about AP.

"From time to time I find myself stumbling across the argument that Audemars Piguet is a one watch company. Considering the popularity of the Royal Oak and how it has come to dominate the current collection, I can understand to some extent the reasoning behind such a statement. However, I do not find this line of thinking particularly holistic in approach.

Examining the proposition that AP is a one watch company ignores the diversity found in the current offerings. Just because the Royal Oak tends to take the spotlight both in collector’s minds and the general media does not mean that the watchmaker in question isn’t doing enough elsewhere to bring a well-thought-out and diverse collection. We must remember there are 9 entirely independent families of references in the AP collection.

It is important to distinguish what one finds appealing and how such a bias might affect us. It is also important to identify the core differences in the three families that share the octagonal bezel: Royal Oak, Offshore & Concept. To compare the Offshore and the Royal Oak, size is not the only factor here. So too are larger considerations such as dial configurations and smaller details like pushers. Concerning the Concept, we have an entirely different case shape and dial interpretations that separates itself from the Royal Oak confidently. All three families share an octagonal bezel but if that means AP is a one watch company, we might as well criticise those that rely too heavily on circular watches. No one makes the argument all tonneau watches are the same so then why should we say those that carry octagonal bezels are?

Further still, why should we ignore everything else AP does? The Royal Oak is unquestionably the most popular series they make but since when did we let popularity dictate variety? Popularity of one reference does not give a mandate to ignore others. Thus to say AP are a one trick pony is horologically criminal. Primarily because it can be proven as a matter of fact, through their 9 separate families of references, that a healthy variety of offerings exist today. Even if the 11:59 is irrelevant to one, it is tremendously important to another."

[AshAP]

^^^^ very well said.


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[0xalate]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I think many collectors do not fully understand Patek or AP - understandably so. I will drop a quote from a very respected member of the watch community - I too have heard similar statements from other seasoned collectors about AP.

"From time to time I find myself stumbling across the argument that Audemars Piguet is a one watch company. Considering the popularity of the Royal Oak and how it has come to dominate the current collection, I can understand to some extent the reasoning behind such a statement. However, I do not find this line of thinking particularly holistic in approach.

Examining the proposition that AP is a one watch company ignores the diversity found in the current offerings. Just because the Royal Oak tends to take the spotlight both in collector’s minds and the general media does not mean that the watchmaker in question isn’t doing enough elsewhere to bring a well-thought-out and diverse collection. We must remember there are 9 entirely independent families of references in the AP collection.

It is important to distinguish what one finds appealing and how such a bias might affect us. It is also important to identify the core differences in the three families that share the octagonal bezel: Royal Oak, Offshore & Concept. To compare the Offshore and the Royal Oak, size is not the only factor here. So too are larger considerations such as dial configurations and smaller details like pushers. Concerning the Concept, we have an entirely different case shape and dial interpretations that separates itself from the Royal Oak confidently. All three families share an octagonal bezel but if that means AP is a one watch company, we might as well criticise those that rely too heavily on circular watches. No one makes the argument all tonneau watches are the same so then why should we say those that carry octagonal bezels are?

Further still, why should we ignore everything else AP does? The Royal Oak is unquestionably the most popular series they make but since when did we let popularity dictate variety? Popularity of one reference does not give a mandate to ignore others. Thus to say AP are a one trick pony is horologically criminal. Primarily because it can be proven as a matter of fact, through their 9 separate families of references, that a healthy variety of offerings exist today. Even if the 11:59 is irrelevant to one, it is tremendously important to another."

This!!! Also, I think if you’re a deep enough collector, you’d find joy and beauty in some other less sought after pieces from both brands. Production numbers for Patek are much lower than say a Rolex, but the line is short or even non-existent for many models I like. Just need to figure out the money and call an AD then get it in a few months.


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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by 7sins

I would love to hear from someone on the other side of the fence. As a VIP, would you rather welcome new people to the brand or continue to keep it exclusive to a small world that you spend xyz, thus their is some entitlement to those watches? I feel like we are always looking in, wanting to have no wait, no purchase history and get the most in demand watches (myself included).

I suppose anyone who wants a dress watch can easily get into Patek, or any other brands for that matter including Rolex (Cellini) and AP (Jules Audemars).

The issue is with the sport line which has too much demand and not so easy for new hobbyists who yearn only sport models to get into. There are simply too little of such watches for sale to all interested parties.

I can understand why ADs "ballot" these sport watches to their VIPs. If this generates the most value for them and if this approach is sustainable in the long run, their shareholders are happy and this is what that matters ultimately.

[Watchflair]

I've argued this for a number of years now that what Patek is doing is short sighted. They are not cultivating their future collectors of the brand as their entry pieces are not obtainable.

Then I take a step back and realize that there is always a bigger fish - someone that will play ball and buy the bundle. It quickly reminds me of my brother in law that walked into a PP AD and purchased two dress pieces over a two week period - a 5712 appeared 4 weeks later with his name on it - no coincidence.

Crazy enough is that just because a Nautilus is essentially unobtainable at retail - it doesn't make me want it any less.

It's not a Nautilus but I did get my 116500 Daytona C after buying a DD for my wife. That along with some other purchases have helped get my spend where I can fairly easily get most Rolex models.


I guess the real question is this - if the Nautilus and Aquanaut weren't so in demand and hard to get would we still want them? I recall just a few years back when they used to be in the cases on display.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I think many collectors do not fully understand Patek or AP - understandably so. I will drop a quote from a very respected member of the watch community - I too have heard similar statements from other seasoned collectors about AP.

"From time to time I find myself stumbling across the argument that Audemars Piguet is a one watch company. Considering the popularity of the Royal Oak and how it has come to dominate the current collection, I can understand to some extent the reasoning behind such a statement. However, I do not find this line of thinking particularly holistic in approach.

Examining the proposition that AP is a one watch company ignores the diversity found in the current offerings. Just because the Royal Oak tends to take the spotlight both in collector’s minds and the general media does not mean that the watchmaker in question isn’t doing enough elsewhere to bring a well-thought-out and diverse collection. We must remember there are 9 entirely independent families of references in the AP collection.

It is important to distinguish what one finds appealing and how such a bias might affect us. It is also important to identify the core differences in the three families that share the octagonal bezel: Royal Oak, Offshore & Concept. To compare the Offshore and the Royal Oak, size is not the only factor here. So too are larger considerations such as dial configurations and smaller details like pushers. Concerning the Concept, we have an entirely different case shape and dial interpretations that separates itself from the Royal Oak confidently. All three families share an octagonal bezel but if that means AP is a one watch company, we might as well criticise those that rely too heavily on circular watches. No one makes the argument all tonneau watches are the same so then why should we say those that carry octagonal bezels are?

Further still, why should we ignore everything else AP does? The Royal Oak is unquestionably the most popular series they make but since when did we let popularity dictate variety? Popularity of one reference does not give a mandate to ignore others. Thus to say AP are a one trick pony is horologically criminal. Primarily because it can be proven as a matter of fact, through their 9 separate families of references, that a healthy variety of offerings exist today. Even if the 11:59 is irrelevant to one, it is tremendously important to another."

Excellent! Thanks for sharing as you've done a great job summarizing what I think is important. I cringe when I hear people treat AP as "only the Royal Oak". I think it's preposterous. I will admit that I am not somebody that has a long history with AP. In fact it's quite short. But in the course of a couple of years, I went from only wanting a 15400/15500, to having 2 ROs, 2 Offshores, and a Code. I really believe that AP is well positioned...much more so than Patek is. And, while I have had some negative experiences with AP in terms of trying to get allocations, I do feel at least they hear me out and you just can't get everything you want. Contrast that to Patek, where it's just been miserable.

[Snerks]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

I guess the real question is this - if the Nautilus and Aquanaut weren't so in demand and hard to get would we still want them? I recall just a few years back when they used to be in the cases on display.

Yes, to some degree at least.

Both work and social dress are becoming exponentially more casual every day. I wear semi formal / formal wear, maybe 3-5 days per year. This has been a relatively fast cultural shift.

I'd love a Calatrava, but it just doesn't fit my life like the Aquanaut does. And I'm sure this is the same for a lot of those in their 20s and 30s.

[Mr. Drunmond]

nm

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by Snerks

Yes, to some degree at least.

Both work and social dress are becoming exponentially more casual every day. I wear semi formal / formal wear, maybe 3-5 days per year. This has been a relatively fast cultural shift.

I'd love a Calatrava, but it just doesn't fit my life like the Aquanaut does. And I'm sure this is the same for a lot of those in their 20s and 30s.

100% agree with you. I do admit that the "frenzy" only makes you want it more...at least that's the way my mind works. But, at the end of the day, I don't want a 5167a just because I see it on Instagram 50 times a day. I want it because it is a nice watch that isn't demands attention. It is practical for both work and play. Sure, the dressier Pateks are nice watches, but they just don't fit into my lifestyle. At all. And, I don't think I'm in the minority there.

[UmichNJ]

Originally Posted by Snerks

Yes, to some degree at least.

Both work and social dress are becoming exponentially more casual every day. I wear semi formal / formal wear, maybe 3-5 days per year. This has been a relatively fast cultural shift.

I'd love a Calatrava, but it just doesn't fit my life like the Aquanaut does. And I'm sure this is the same for a lot of those in their 20s and 30s.

I think Patek has been trying to acknowledge this, in part, by the casualization of the Calatrava line. I keep thinking of the brown calf strap that they have used in the 5524, 5522, and now 5212 (all casual, at least in a Patek context). The 5172 I think was also designed to look nice with a suit or with jeans. For me, the big issue remains that when traveling, I still need to consider what I might be doing (do I hit a pool, will it be hot, etc) when I wear a Calatrava. With my Aquanaut or Nautilus, I don’t worry about it, and know that I’ll be well prepared no matter what the situation. This could be fixed quickly if they add more durable straps (maybe a cordura like the 7234a, but without a leather lining) and beef up water resistance.

[Pateks]

This isn’t limited to Patek. Try getting a new Porsche GT3. Or a Ferrari special edition car. My buddy was trying to get the new 765 allocation from the local Mclaren dealer. Started hearing all the excuses about how the car is limited, he hasn’t bought a Mclaren before blah blah blah.

All these high end luxury brands are riding the waves of a decent economy but more importantly low interest ratess. Just hang in there and things will normalize eventually.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I think one thing that does bother me is that with the 2-3 Patek ADs that I have any knowledge of, they simply offer anything and everything to the VVIPs. Like, literally everything. There just seems like there’s zero desire to cultivate a new customer.

I’m sure that’s a very myopic point of view, but the fact that I know it as fact is what gets me worked up. I can’t get a 5167a, but anything that the VVIP wants has an uncanny ability to show up in a few weeks or months.

Anyway, there’s plenty of other great watches out there. It’s important to keep that in mind.

I have been dealing with two PP ADs and and found that there was ample opportunity for me to jump in and get into PP - of course you still need to pay to play but it's not as bad as you make it seem, I just felt for me the $ amount I needed to spend was not worth it for me.
One of my ADs had a 5164R on display a year ago but I did not pull the trigger because I was more into AP and felt AP offers more bang for buck (actually still feel that way). My other AD just offered me what I mentioned above - buy ALS Zeitwerk and get my PP dream watch 5164A. It's not like you really need to spend millions of $.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Your AD may well be sincere however one of my closest friends visited a well known Patek AD in London (not our local Patek AD in Yorkshire). He enquired about a particular Patek model that he really wanted and he was assured that if he bought the pilot Chrono 5524G that was in store and available immediately then he would be supplied with the next available reference that he really wanted. Accepting the proposal my friend transferred the full amount on the spot for the 5524 however as he’d traveled to London on the train he left the watch in the store to arrange collecting at a later date. When we went to collect the watch a week later the sales person spoke privately to my friend and informed that he’d made some enquiries about my friend and discovered that he had a very good relationship with a main Patek dealer in Yorkshire and on that basis the AD in London claimed that it would therefore be dishonourable for him to proceed with the sale of the watch that my friend had wanted all along. Obviously this shady AD didn’t offer to refund the 5524 and we left the store with an unwanted watch and a very bitter taste.


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that's terrible to hear but I pretty much told my AD that I don't want to end up like this and since she said she can put my name on the PP certificate of the 5164A on the day I buy the ALS I feel like she was sincere. But who knows!?! doesn't really build trust with ADs hearing these shady stories.

[daveo5]

Thankfully I have never liked the Nautilus. I just shake my head at the prices. My Patek Philippe is a Neptune.


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[Mr. Miami]

I like some the the nautilus models but not all. i really like the 5167a aquanaut but it seems i got interested in this hobby to late to go to an AD and get one. i believe the OP was in a similar situation as he just bought a nautilus from a private party. I’ll be doing the same thing towards the ladder part of 2021 grey. oh well. I’d be thrilled to get one msrp and have it tank 30% right after i buy it then pay double retail. oh well.

[ma.st.]

I've gone through the journey with my AD of becoming a new PP customer, but having already owned a Patek. For me, there are watches I'd like that aren't available but plenty of others as well and they know that. I enjoy the journey and the long term game in collecting to acquire what I want void of the instant gratification of "I want this reference and I want it now." I truly like the brand for many reasons and those reasons I feel make me a sincere long term customer.

I don't want to bundle, so instead I continue to plan for making my next PP perhaps one that would have been third on my sequential list, but is on my list nevertheless.

PP, Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren etc can limit production because it is about quality of customer over quantity. The internet has just equalized the knowledge that is available that otherwise would have been cultivated over the course of the acquisition/ownership and brand discovery journey of the past.

We skip the journey by just reading gratuitous amounts of free content on the internet and make the decisions before buying that may have taken years to come to in the past.

Brands and ADs used to be gatekeepers for info and supply. There is no gatekeeper for info. It's all on the internet, so ADs and brands remain the gatekeeper for supply only. That discrepancy likely lends many to see what they want over and over and over after months or years of research and be disheartened that they can't actually have it. Unfortunately, having the money doesn't guarantee the opportunity to acquire. Plenty of brands ran on exclusivity well before modern sports PP, or GT Porsches or McLaren Sennas or whatever.

[ma.st.]

I'd also add that hypothetically if you love and appreciate an aquanaut for all the enthusiast reasons over say a sub-date then why not love and appreciate a micro rotor perpetual calendar movement and the subsequent watch it powers even if it is dressy by modern standards for some people?

To me, PP is certainly both and historically quite definitely more than modern sports models. Same with AP and VC. But the modern concept of people viewing a brand as one-watch companies or diluting PP down to the aquanaut or nautilus line while not appreciating the rest is far more frustrating than not being able to waltz out with a 5164a tomorrow.

[2nastie]

Facing a bit of reality here, the way we dress and present ourselves visually has shifted pretty significantly in the past decade if not the past few years alone. Using a typical business professional (me and those in my network) many have gone from traditional suit and tie to a casual blazer (if any), shirt, and chinos. And even more so in new leading industries such as tech where literally people show up in t-shirts and jeans. That alone should speak volumes of where "fashion" or the daily attire is going.

And to be honest, for an average person I don't think we will likely return back to the suit and tie days other than the odd formal events we attend.

I think Patek has a been doing a decent job transitioning though. Pieces like the 5205, 5320, etc. as well as the color choices of their dials are a good in between of formal and casual. The aesthetics are functional in both situations.

I would suggest they venture into adding a Calatrava (time only) of sorts on the sportier end of things, but the brand's overall design cues already keeps in line of what a modern Patek should look like.

[ma.st.]

I agree. I also believe PP is transitioning well in their own way. The 5960g is a perfect example and in my opinion the perfect modern Patek. AC, that they invented, introduced with their first in house automatic chrono, PM case, less formal blue dial, reasonable size for casual and dress, and style cues like the pushers harking back to vintage 1463's. Throw a fun casual strap on it and call it a day. To me those are all of the ingredients for where modern PP balance should go instead of pumping the market full of sports watches to appease the masses and capitalize on an easy money-grab.

I'd also rather have a conversation with someone that could appreciate and articulate a similar knowledge and sentiment to their watch than someone that just chased a SS sports model because it "fit their lifestyle" more than a "dressier" watch...or just pulling their phone out of their pocket lol

[fsprow]

Not sure what the problem is here. Patek is doing great -- making just the number of watches they wish and have a fine dealer network and good customers. All watches are available at reseller market prices with no delay - or from a dealer if you can make a deal with them.

If that price works for you, fine. If not, someone else may purchase. Or the price may be reduced. Just the way a market works when many folks have the funds to purchase a desirable product..

[PPcollector]

Originally Posted by fsprow

Not sure what the problem is here. Patek is doing great -- making just the number of watches they wish and have a fine dealer network and good customers. All watches are available at reseller market prices with no delay - or from a dealer if you can make a deal with them.

If that price works for you, fine. If not, someone else may purchase. Or the price may be reduced. Just the way a market works when many folks have the funds to purchase a desirable product..

I believe the issue is a supply/demand dynamic exacerbated by the current equities blow-up. Of course, the luxury brands have no issue selling their products Covid19 or no Covid19... the haves will always want more!
I just sit back and enjoy my collection while waiting for pieces to trickle. This year has been particularly difficult in that production of Patek pieces were reduced and all ADs did not have enough inventory to sell to their clients.

[azizu]

I don’t think this is just related to Patek ADs.
I remember very well the AP AD trying hard to convince me to buy a code 11:59 even after I wan on the list for a year or so.
I also remember when I went to Vacheron Constantin that they mentioned to me that you need purchase history to be able to get the hard pieces (Skelton perpetual calendar OS, blue dial three Bander OS etc.).
It is also no secrete that you can’t get on the waiting list for a sports steel Rolex without buying a DJ.
So why blame just PP?!
I started my relationship with my PP AD 5 years ago. Built it through time, learned a lot from them and through out the years they noticed that I am a true collector. They can see the pieces I’m wearing. I also bought a few PPs and they saw it on me. I was on the 5726 grey dial list initially and that got discontinued so they gracefully transferred me to the 5712 list (and thanks god they did).
So they had no issue handing me a 5712A. through out the years and while I was sitting chatting with my AD I noticed the kind of people walking into the AD have changed, all of a sudden people where only asking about nautilus. So don’t blame the AD, every year they get a certain allocation and they need to move merchandise.


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[jamestucker]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Your AD may well be sincere however one of my closest friends visited a well known Patek AD in London (not our local Patek AD in Yorkshire). He enquired about a particular Patek model that he really wanted and he was assured that if he bought the pilot Chrono 5524G that was in store and available immediately then he would be supplied with the next available reference that he really wanted. Accepting the proposal my friend transferred the full amount on the spot for the 5524 however as he’d traveled to London on the train he left the watch in the store to arrange collecting at a later date. When we went to collect the watch a week later the sales person spoke privately to my friend and informed that he’d made some enquiries about my friend and discovered that he had a very good relationship with a main Patek dealer in Yorkshire and on that basis the AD in London claimed that it would therefore be dishonourable for him to proceed with the sale of the watch that my friend had wanted all along. Obviously this shady AD didn’t offer to refund the 5524 and we left the store with an unwanted watch and a very bitter taste.


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Sorry to hear this. So it is not dishonourable for the to sell him a 5524? Awful retailer. Your friend should report this to Patek UK. They won't accept such practice and they will put things right buy asking the retailer to take the watch back

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by dauster

my ad told me I need 100k buying history and must include some hard to move piece preferably a grand complication (doesnt have to be PP) and I have spent $35k on two watches so far. I was debating about a ALS Zeitwerk and was promised a 5164A if I buy it. They would have put my name on the certificate if I had pulled the trigger on the ALS. I was also debating a ladies PP for my wife too and that would have resulted in a 5726A on leather strap. Pretty fair but after sleeping on it I was not ready to spend 150-200k on watches during covid. Unsure where I am at now with my AD after I declined but if anything I will buy a porsche next year. I am out of the watch game unless I get a 15500 in SS.

ah man....Burlingame or Post St ?

Originally Posted by AshAP

Your AD may well be sincere however one of my closest friends visited a well known Patek AD in London (not our local Patek AD in Yorkshire). He enquired about a particular Patek model that he really wanted and he was assured that if he bought the pilot Chrono 5524G that was in store and available immediately then he would be supplied with the next available reference that he really wanted. Accepting the proposal my friend transferred the full amount on the spot for the 5524 however as he’d traveled to London on the train he left the watch in the store to arrange collecting at a later date. When we went to collect the watch a week later the sales person spoke privately to my friend and informed that he’d made some enquiries about my friend and discovered that he had a very good relationship with a main Patek dealer in Yorkshire and on that basis the AD in London claimed that it would therefore be dishonourable for him to proceed with the sale of the watch that my friend had wanted all along. Obviously this shady AD didn’t offer to refund the 5524 and we left the store with an unwanted watch and a very bitter taste.


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that is truly unacceptable

Originally Posted by PPcollector

I believe the issue is a supply/demand dynamic exacerbated by the current equities blow-up. Of course, the luxury brands have no issue selling their products Covid19 or no Covid19... the haves will always want more!
I just sit back and enjoy my collection while waiting for pieces to trickle. This year has been particularly difficult in that production of Patek pieces were reduced and all ADs did not have enough inventory to sell to their clients.

this. I am fully aware I don't have the means/desire to compete with bigger fish. Brands are successful and I can't be mad at them. I hope things will come back down to reality so I can enjoy a few models I really admire

[martinr]

Originally Posted by ma.st.

I agree. I also believe PP is transitioning well in their own way. The 5960g is a perfect example and in my opinion the perfect modern Patek. AC, that they invented, introduced with their first in house automatic chrono, PM case, less formal blue dial, reasonable size for casual and dress, and style cues like the pushers harking back to vintage 1463's. Throw a fun casual strap on it and call it a day. To me those are all of the ingredients for where modern PP balance should go instead of pumping the market full of sports watches to appease the masses and capitalize on an easy money-grab.

I'd also rather have a conversation with someone that could appreciate and articulate a similar knowledge and sentiment to their watch than someone that just chased a SS sports model because it "fit their lifestyle" more than a "dressier" watch...or just pulling their phone out of their pocket lol

Only problem with the 5960G is when you want to sell. If you paid retail plus sales tax from an AD you’ll take a giant bath. Other than that it’s a pretty nice watch.

[kneedeep]

Originally Posted by martinr

Only problem with the 5960G is when you want to sell. If you paid retail plus sales tax from an AD you’ll take a giant bath. Other than that it’s a pretty nice watch.

Unfortunately, same issue with 5146r, 5396r and other lovely ACs. Some good opportunities to buy new or lightly worn recent examples way under MSRP on the secondary. Will the herd swing back to those at some point? No comparison in the horology in these references compared to the basic Aqua or Naut.

[degator]

1st post on the forum but feel this is the right time to provide my first Patek purchase. I was overwhelmed with the process and rather frustrated for over 12 months. I travel 75% of the year for work and decided to develop a relationship with multiple ADs. After developing a substantial relationship with 3 different ADs, I realized I was no closer to purchasing my dream watch, the 5164a. Out of the blue, after totally giving up and not speaking with those individuals, I received the phone call. My local AD, called to let me know there was a watch with my name on it arriving in the next 30 days - I was speechless. With all that said, at the lowest point in my search, I received the call and I was told on the purchase day, it was all due to the relationship built over that time period. Just my two cents.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by RoscoPico

ah man....Burlingame or Post St ?


that is truly unacceptable



this. I am fully aware I don't have the means/desire to compete with bigger fish. Brands are successful and I can't be mad at them. I hope things will come back down to reality so I can enjoy a few models I really admire

Burlingame and Santa Clara / Westfield valley fair