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Old 21 April 2019, 03:37 AM   #121
BakerView
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs146 View Post
Iíve met so many amazing people as a result of this hobby itís unreal. People, just like the OP, Chad, who I wouldnít hesitate sending 45k to in an instant. Itís unfortunate that a few bad apples really make it hard to maintain that trust. Thatís why I find it so important to maintain the relationships that I do have, people who always keep their word. Stay safe out there folks.


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+1 Some exceptional folks here on TRF. Circle the wagons and keep guys like that one out.
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Old 26 April 2019, 04:10 PM   #122
janice&fred
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there are many ways to view this unfortunate turn of events the OP experienced by the hands of a thief. is it a lesson to only use a credit card or paypal no matter who one is dealing with? oh wouldn't that be music to the ears of credit card providers and paypal. we have over many years sold countless watches to fellow collectors online yet don't use paypal. build up a reputation and be available via phone, and if people know who you are then it's all good.

if the seller or buyer is a known entity and has history in the watch world then paying via bank wire, western union or even sending a box of cash wouldn't matter...they would stick to their word and see the transaction thru. let's not allow a few creeps to screw up this hobby by everyone suspecting everyone else. make a phone call or text to verify the actual phone of the known and trusted entity connects to whoever is listing the watch in the ad. check to make sure that same phone number is used in previous ads. check provided references or post publicly looking for some. no one of any stature can give references? bye bye.

so...back to this event. the OP may or may not have made a few mistakes in this transaction as he is a busy man. we all have. however there's a huge difference between the likes of the OP and the thief. whether or not the OP ever recovers his money, he will be fine. he could afford to drop big money on a luxury item thus is in great shape should he not receive it. our thief?...well that chunk of cash has or will be squandered and most likely will have nothing to show for it and continue to be worthless scum.

to the op: let the law enforcement agencies do their job and aside from that simply go on with life as usual.
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Old 21 May 2019, 06:04 AM   #123
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if the seller or buyer is a known entity and has history in the watch world then paying via bank wire, western union or even sending a box of cash wouldn't matter...they would stick to their word and see the transaction thru.
WRONG! Accounts get hacked; you could be sending cash to the same scammer and wouldn't know it until it was too late. There's spoofed TRF, WUS, and TZ login pages on the web set up to steal your username and password.

TRUST BUT VERIFY! ALWAYS CONDUCT DUE DILLIGENCE!
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Old 21 May 2019, 04:16 PM   #124
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I purchased through a bricks and mortar grey in person and used my credit card. I called my bank as a matter of curiosity about buyer protection and they said you've got 90 days to dispute a transaction but if fraud was involved, there was no real time limit. The card costs a bit to use in currency conversion but good insurance.
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Old 5 July 2019, 02:27 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by InitialAndPitch View Post
I purchased through a bricks and mortar grey in person and used my credit card. I called my bank as a matter of curiosity about buyer protection and they said you've got 90 days to dispute a transaction but if fraud was involved, there was no real time limit. The card costs a bit to use in currency conversion but good insurance.
Yep w AMX itís even longer to dispute. If a seller protests about cost , offer to pay their discount in deal if need be. Donít ever use wire transfer! What if piece is lost in transit or an empty box arrives or item is not as represented or parts are missing etc ??? This simple rule solves ALL those problems, period!
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Old 6 July 2019, 05:10 AM   #126
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Ouch, this loss is very painful to hear. The guy will just keep coming back.

It would be great if mods have systems in place to fingerprint fraudster accounts and hope to catch new connections behind the scenes before they're able to scam others.

Cookie profiling is so simple, but you'd be surprised how many elite level fraudsters forget to clean these up.
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Old 9 July 2019, 08:22 AM   #127
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I feel for you, OP. So sorry that this happened to you. Chin up and I hope that the scammer gets theirs - in this life or the next.
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Old 10 July 2019, 12:19 AM   #128
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Chad, would you mind posting any updates you have to your case? I am familiar with these scams and am curious if you had any positive results from Law Enforcement (LE). There are several different ways these cases progress, all with different outcomes. I'd like to know if you got lucky. Disregard the earlier jerk posts and focus on facts. 99% you never see your money again, sorry, but that is how these things almost always go. It CAN be a domestic scammer that thinks he is "bright," but the right LE will figure out who he is and approach, but money is long gone. Maybe they will prosecute, but that depends more on the DA'S office if local and the AUSA office if federal. Federal, no way, they take a 45k case UNLESS during an investigation they find other victims and get the loss amount over 1 million with mitigating circumstances or 5 million without. Locals may work it, and if they get to actual crook (who is not that guy btw, it is a persona or stolen ID) the local DA will not have that $ thresholds. 45k is enough for the locals to prosecute. BUT the locals would have to coordinate with whatever dept is local to where the crook is, but it is done all the time. Cops track IP addresses in cases fairly regularly these days, so IF you are lucky, you have a dope working from his own house scamming from parents internet, or his own, but just doesn't think cops can track back. It is amazing to me how many people think the internet cannot be traced. BUT you will need to stay diligent and friendly with the local detective and discuss IP searches, subscriber info subpoenas, his efforts to reach out to the cops in the other jurisdiction, since the odds the crook was in your town are remote. Etc. Etc... But if they track and go to guys house with search warrant they may find evidence on his computer he is a scammer you will get a prosecution, but very very unlikely for $ recovery. Domestic crooks almost always spend it. NOW, on flipside, you get FBI, HSI, or Postal Inspectors (all work financial/wire fraud cases) to work this for you, also stay in contact and offer up your records and other pertinent data. They can put out subpoenas to email providers, IP providers, and banks, and can usually track the money or communications. If its domestic, you are lucky and have potential for what is basically stated above. If money bounces through a couple accounts and then overseas, dead end. That part of the story doesn't matter for now, just accept it is a dead end. IF the money has local connections, they will follow the trail. Forget what somebody else said about cops don't care about rich person getting scammed. That is some jaded person talking without any inside knowledge. Cops do not care who the victim is, they joined to catch crooks, it is very satisfying. Period. But, they will and can spend only so much time and effort as resources are a finite commodity whether you are talking about time, effort, money to work the case, etc.. How much time and effort will your boss let you put on something valued at 45K with 1 victim, when most feds have 20 other cases waiting in cue that are 5, 10, 50 mil in value or loss amount to 200 or 500 nationwide victims? If the ER doc has 20 gunshot victims in the ER, he will not be seeing- AT ALL- the guy coming in with flu symptoms. ***Another scenario is the whole scam is run from Nigeria or Jamaica, the two most prolific scam countries, again you have issues as LE can track it all as stated above, BUT when the $ crosses out of US which is usually only a few days after it passes through a few monty mules, -it is gone. Forget what you see on TV or read about in some super rare isolated case... it won't happen here. Also, with overseas scammer MASKING IP's and emails, it gets tougher. LE can follow the trail, but when it finally gets to overseas server... _ No jurisdiction for them to comply with a US based subpoena. End of line. FYI: This is also the most likely scenario. Yes, I know TV does different things, but the real law just doesn't work that way. And the rare case the other countries do help us, it is a case with millions or more of loss amount with mitigating circumstances or significant US based victims... and pressure from the State Dept. So forget all that for a stolen watch scam type case. I wish you the best in luck, it can be done, keep talking to your local detective, and try to get him to partner with a fed. And please post an update.
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Old 10 July 2019, 03:20 AM   #129
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That's awful. Hoping the scammer gets caught and brought to justice.
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Old 10 July 2019, 03:21 AM   #130
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Progress is being made. I will post more soon
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Old 10 July 2019, 03:25 AM   #131
Dieseljb
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wow sorry to hear that . there are so many scammers now days its crazy . since my watch has been for sale on ebay ive had 3 scammers trying to purchase it but ive seen so many scams I know what to look for .....good luck on your case...
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Old 18 July 2019, 03:57 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgdaytona View Post
Chad, would you mind posting any updates you have to your case? I am familiar with these scams and am curious if you had any positive results from Law Enforcement (LE). There are several different ways these cases progress, all with different outcomes. I'd like to know if you got lucky. Disregard the earlier jerk posts and focus on facts. 99% you never see your money again, sorry, but that is how these things almost always go. It CAN be a domestic scammer that thinks he is "bright," but the right LE will figure out who he is and approach, but money is long gone. Maybe they will prosecute, but that depends more on the DA'S office if local and the AUSA office if federal. Federal, no way, they take a 45k case UNLESS during an investigation they find other victims and get the loss amount over 1 million with mitigating circumstances or 5 million without. Locals may work it, and if they get to actual crook (who is not that guy btw, it is a persona or stolen ID) the local DA will not have that $ thresholds. 45k is enough for the locals to prosecute. BUT the locals would have to coordinate with whatever dept is local to where the crook is, but it is done all the time. Cops track IP addresses in cases fairly regularly these days, so IF you are lucky, you have a dope working from his own house scamming from parents internet, or his own, but just doesn't think cops can track back. It is amazing to me how many people think the internet cannot be traced. BUT you will need to stay diligent and friendly with the local detective and discuss IP searches, subscriber info subpoenas, his efforts to reach out to the cops in the other jurisdiction, since the odds the crook was in your town are remote. Etc. Etc... But if they track and go to guys house with search warrant they may find evidence on his computer he is a scammer you will get a prosecution, but very very unlikely for $ recovery. Domestic crooks almost always spend it. NOW, on flipside, you get FBI, HSI, or Postal Inspectors (all work financial/wire fraud cases) to work this for you, also stay in contact and offer up your records and other pertinent data. They can put out subpoenas to email providers, IP providers, and banks, and can usually track the money or communications. If its domestic, you are lucky and have potential for what is basically stated above. If money bounces through a couple accounts and then overseas, dead end. That part of the story doesn't matter for now, just accept it is a dead end. IF the money has local connections, they will follow the trail. Forget what somebody else said about cops don't care about rich person getting scammed. That is some jaded person talking without any inside knowledge. Cops do not care who the victim is, they joined to catch crooks, it is very satisfying. Period. But, they will and can spend only so much time and effort as resources are a finite commodity whether you are talking about time, effort, money to work the case, etc.. How much time and effort will your boss let you put on something valued at 45K with 1 victim, when most feds have 20 other cases waiting in cue that are 5, 10, 50 mil in value or loss amount to 200 or 500 nationwide victims? If the ER doc has 20 gunshot victims in the ER, he will not be seeing- AT ALL- the guy coming in with flu symptoms. ***Another scenario is the whole scam is run from Nigeria or Jamaica, the two most prolific scam countries, again you have issues as LE can track it all as stated above, BUT when the $ crosses out of US which is usually only a few days after it passes through a few monty mules, -it is gone. Forget what you see on TV or read about in some super rare isolated case... it won't happen here. Also, with overseas scammer MASKING IP's and emails, it gets tougher. LE can follow the trail, but when it finally gets to overseas server... _ No jurisdiction for them to comply with a US based subpoena. End of line. FYI: This is also the most likely scenario. Yes, I know TV does different things, but the real law just doesn't work that way. And the rare case the other countries do help us, it is a case with millions or more of loss amount with mitigating circumstances or significant US based victims... and pressure from the State Dept. So forget all that for a stolen watch scam type case. I wish you the best in luck, it can be done, keep talking to your local detective, and try to get him to partner with a fed. And please post an update.
You say Iím jaded but go on to co-sign on everything I said,99% of Cops donít care about someone getting scammed on a Luxury product.They may act like they do,But their efforts tell the true tale...Youíre out your hard earned Money.
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Old 29 July 2019, 01:29 PM   #133
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Any updates OP?
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Old 31 July 2019, 06:58 PM   #134
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just not the case

Quote:
Originally Posted by 05carbondrz View Post
You say Iím jaded but go on to co-sign on everything I said,99% of Cops donít care about someone getting scammed on a Luxury product.They may act like they do,But their efforts tell the true tale...Youíre out your hard earned Money.
Look, let's agree to disagree out of courtesy to the OP, because I hate taking effort for explaining to the uninformed that 'think' they know, but you are not accurate in your statement at all. You clearly do not know what law enforcement does, nor do you understand the system. Blaming LE is narrow minded and inaccurate.
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Old 10 August 2019, 12:05 AM   #135
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Hate to hear these stories. I was scammed on a mere $4100 purchase because of a hacked account/identity theft. Did as much due diligence as I could, but lost the funds over a wire transfer. I've purchased other watches from legitimate sellers using wire transfer, so I didn't think that much of it. Still keeps me up at night, sometimes. I knew instantly that nothing could be done to retrieve the money, but I don't let it dissuade me from participating in this generally wonderful watch community.
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Old 12 August 2019, 06:34 AM   #136
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Curious to see that there are any updates on this OP?
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Old 12 August 2019, 08:14 AM   #137
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Still waiting on law enforcement
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