Why no love for Jaeger Le Coultre?

[DD GT3 RD]

Top companies have paid JLC to make movements for their watches for a long time, from Patek, AP and Vacheron. I know just recently AP stopped using JLC's movement in the ROO. They make some beautiful and classy watches. So I was wondering why they dont get much love from what I have seen? Even some of their higher complications and tourbillons can be had for much less than whats offered from the other top guys. Also why is their resale terrible? They take a huge hit in the aftermarket. Is there just not enough demand?

[dysondiver]

shhhhh ,,, dont tell every one , till ive bought a nice reverso , some real second hand bargains to be had ....

[kilyung]

Best kept secret. They're the watchmakers' brand.

[TSW]

AP did in fact own 40% of JLC til recently.
Myself do like some of the models from JLC but not a big fan of the after- sales handled by Richemont.

[Fiery]

JLC make high quality watches, and most likely they have and always had the widest range of in-house movements in the whole industry. They prefer to spend $$ on research & development, instead of spending it on marketing and brand ambassadors. The result is such spectacular products as the Master Compressor Extreme LAB, Master Grand Reveil and Duometre. Until recently the one thing they fell short IMHO is that they failed to make products that are "cool". Such products that appeal to the younger generation (under 30). They stepped into the right direction with the diving product line in 2007, and continued on that path with the Navy SEALs products (which raised a lot of controversy too), and the recent introduction of the Tribute to Deep Sea.

The other problem with JLC is the actual fact that their watches cost significantly less than Patek/AP/VC. If you study how much less a JLC complicated watch costs than a Patek, you have to wonder: why is JLC so affordable? Is there anything wrong with JLC watches? Why aren't they priced closer to Patek if the quality matches? People are simply afraid of spending big bucks on a relatively unknown name (JLC) and so they either spend the same money on a Rolex or add some more $$ in the bucket and go for Patek/AP/VC. And since JLC isn't popular on the new market, the same thing plagues the 2nd hand market as well. The end result is quite favorable to us WIS though: on the 2nd hand market it's possible to acquire slightly used JLCs for bargains.

[esm]

i love JLC

[Java]

I love JLC and hold them in the highest possible regard.
The two I have are by some margin the best constructed production watches I have seen.

[McLovin]

One factor is that JLC hasn't been around as long as PP/AP/VC. It was a movement maker until the late 1920s. People pay a premium for the old 3. Furthermore, the Reverso went out of production for a couple of decades (1960s-70s), in which JLC largely faded from public consciousness. Another factor is JLC produces in small quantities, so it simply does not have as many rabid fans as a company like Rolex, which gets its watches on a lot more wrists. JLC also traditionally did not focus on the US market, but it is very popular in France and Switzerland, and at least at one time was very big in the UK, whose military officers inspired the design of the Reverso. Queen Elizabeth wore a JLC at her coronation. Someone already mentioned the lack of marketing. You will not see basketball players and philandering golfers peddling JLC. Finally, to answer Fiery, no -- JLC's quality generally does not match Patek's perfection. The finish may be equal on parts of the watch you and I can see, but my understanding is that JLC will not apply the same degree of finishing on parts of the watch that only the watchmaker will see. That is, PP's doubled price accounts in large part for its perfect finishing of the side of the movement that cannot be seen through a caseback. JLC's finishing of the unseen side is of course very good, and this does not affect functioning at all. Unlike PP, JLC also produces steel dress watches, which while more affordable are not, IMO, designed to compete with Patek's gold watches. Personally, I like it that JLC is not as well known -- the company hits all the right notes for me.

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by McLovin

One factor is that JLC hasn't been around as long as PP/AP/VC. It was a movement maker until the late 1920s. People pay a premium for the old 3. Furthermore, the Reverso went out of production for a couple of decades (1960s-70s), in which JLC largely faded from public consciousness. Another factor is JLC produces in small quantities, so it simply does not have as many rabid fans as a company like Rolex, which gets its watches on a lot more wrists. JLC also traditionally did not focus on the US market, but it is very popular in France and Switzerland, and at least at one time was very big in the UK, whose military officers inspired the design of the Reverso. Queen Elizabeth wore a JLC at her coronation. Someone already mentioned the lack of marketing. You will not see basketball players and philandering golfers peddling JLC. Finally, to answer Fiery, no -- JLC's quality generally does not match Patek's perfection. The finish may be equal on parts of the watch you and I can see, but my understanding is that JLC will not apply the same degree of finishing on parts of the watch that only the watchmaker will see. That is, PP's doubled price accounts in large part for its perfect finishing of the side of the movement that cannot be seen through a caseback. JLC's finishing of the unseen side is of course very good, and this does not affect functioning at all. Unlike PP, JLC also produces steel dress watches, which while more affordable are not, IMO, designed to compete with Patek's gold watches. Personally, I like it that JLC is not as well known -- the company hits all the right notes for me.

Superbly written.

[Java]

Originally Posted by Tony-GB

Superbly written.

X2 and also completely accurate assessment of JLC's position IMO

[esm]

can i ask - why would anyone want to compare JLC to PP? to me, its like compare gold (JLC) to platinum (PP)

against AP and VC i can understand... but why PP?

IMO - PP is the top of the top tier watchmakers.




(would really love a PP one day, thats for sure)

[Java]

Originally Posted by esm

can i ask - why would anyone want to compare JLC to PP? to me, its like compare gold (JLC) to platinum (PP)

against AP and VC i can understand... but why PP?

IMO - PP is the top of the top tier watchmakers.




(would really love a PP one day, thats for sure)

I think the difference is really very small.

Personally I would not buy a PP. But my personal reason for this is that they are mostly slow beat movements and I don't personally like slow beat movements. I am a lover of smooth moving second hands.

[ec10020]

JLC and Girard Perregaux suffer similiar fates of always being in the shadow of Patek, Audemars, Vacheron, and now Lange and even Richard Mille.

I love JLC. Bruce Wayne wears a Reverso Grande Taille, the Navy Seals Auto was practically a character in Fast Five, and Tony Stark wears a variety of JLCs.

The problem is, no matter what JLC does product wise, it is always eclipsed by some margin by something from the aforementioned brands.

1. If I want a small thin gold dress watch I'll look to a Patek Calatrava before thinking of JLC Master Control or even the BEAUTIFUL JLC ultra thin.

2. If I want a do it all sportswatch I will look at a Royal Oak Offshore before one of the JLC Master Compressors

3. If I want an incredibly artsy museum piece with an enamel painting on the dial, Id look at something like the Vacheron Masque series before I think of the incredible JLC enamel arty pieces with a naked Venus on the dial.

4. If I want a futuristic watch with a movement made from unobtanium mined from Pandora, Id get a Richard Mille RM037 before I think of the JLC Extreme Lab 2

From the above you can see that JLC is amazing because not only do its products compete in virtually every category, the brand wins second place in everything! None of the marquee brands have the breadth of JLC, Patek cant make a sports watch to save its life, and Audemars dress watches are almost an afterthought to its Royal Oak lines and none of the big three make a convincing Mille competitor.

Unfortunately, second place is still second place and that is why JLC is not hyped as much as the brands that make first place products even though the manufacturer as a whole is very well respected as a workman-like jack of all trades, master of none

[beaglehusky]

Originally Posted by esm

i love JLC

+1. I never thought there was a lack of love for it, particularly on this forum. This is one of my favorite pieces, and it was a close call between it and a couple of other JLC pieces.

[psv]

I don't agree they don't get any love - they are world famous and held in a very high regard, but they are placed where they are in the pecking order by their owner the Richemont Group.

The Reverso is a true classic if there ever was one. They are doing a really good job in riding the retro/vintage hype train in re-releasing issues like the Reverso 1931, Tribute to Deep Sea Alarm or Polaris 1967 and 1968.

The "problem" with JLC, as I see it, is two-fold: the quality assurance (QA) just isn't there. I've owned 3 JLCs over the year, two of them had to go back right out of the box. The whole 1,000 hrs control is just nonsense. Secondly, they discount heavily, especially in Asia where it is not too hard to get over 30% discount + goodies even at the JLC boutiques. This means that the 2nd hand prices for JLC are horrible compared to brands like Rolex, Panerai, AP etc.

I'm quite liking the new Tribute to the Deep Sea Alarm, the European version, but until I can get one at good discount, it is a non starter.

[Mosco]

I absolutely love my Alarm... And (not to brag), I have handled some gems. My collection is down to 2 watches, and the JLC is one of them. Unlike some of my fellow TRFers, I have never had any quality issues with any of them... To me, they're the most fairly priced Swiss brand out there, movements are superb, finish is exceptional - and the history is deep. As much as I love PP's, VC's, and AP's, you're paying largely for the name. The assessment that JLC is a watchmaker's watch is absolutely accurate. Also, their range of products is very wide, which I like. If you want a true dressy watch, the Duometre is about as nice as you can get. If it's a sports model you're looking for, the choice is there as well. Plenty of love for JLC here!

[TSW]

Well said and I agree Patrick,

Although I quite like some of the models.

[Mosco]

I am not sure how it can get any better than this...

[speedo]

outside rolex, the polaris is my all time favourite watch.
jlc would be the first brand i'd buy if not rolex.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Tony-GB

Superbly written.

Originally Posted by Java

X2 and also completely accurate assessment of JLC's position IMO

cheers guys

[conrail]

JLC makes some great stuff, and wonderful movements, but to be honest, the fit and finish of them just isn't at the same level as the other top brands. I took a stroll through the boutiques in Beverly Hills a few weeks back and was really excited to see some of the models I'd only seen pics of. I was really disappointed in person and wasn't blown away and didn't have that "wow" feeling, like I got with the IWCs next door and the Breguets around the corner...

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by ec10020

JLC and Girard Perregaux suffer similiar fates of always being in the shadow of Patek, Audemars, Vacheron, and now Lange and even Richard Mille.

I love JLC. Bruce Wayne wears a Reverso Grande Taille, the Navy Seals Auto was practically a character in Fast Five, and Tony Stark wears a variety of JLCs.

The problem is, no matter what JLC does product wise, it is always eclipsed by some margin by something from the aforementioned brands.

1. If I want a small thin gold dress watch I'll look to a Patek Calatrava before thinking of JLC Master Control or even the BEAUTIFUL JLC ultra thin.

2. If I want a do it all sportswatch I will look at a Royal Oak Offshore before one of the JLC Master Compressors

3. If I want an incredibly artsy museum piece with an enamel painting on the dial, Id look at something like the Vacheron Masque series before I think of the incredible JLC enamel arty pieces with a naked Venus on the dial.

4. If I want a futuristic watch with a movement made from unobtanium mined from Pandora, Id get a Richard Mille RM037 before I think of the JLC Extreme Lab 2

From the above you can see that JLC is amazing because not only do its products compete in virtually every category, the brand wins second place in everything! None of the marquee brands have the breadth of JLC, Patek cant make a sports watch to save its life, and Audemars dress watches are almost an afterthought to its Royal Oak lines and none of the big three make a convincing Mille competitor.

Unfortunately, second place is still second place and that is why JLC is not hyped as much as the brands that make first place products even though the manufacturer as a whole is very well respected as a workman-like jack of all trades, master of none

I agree with a lot of what you have to say. But other than Patek being the master of the universe, I don't see such a rigid horological heirarchy as you. When it comes to companies at the level of JLC, VC, AP, BP, Breguet and maybe a few others, you just have to go with what sings to you -- a highly individualistic decision. The Master Compressor GMT sings to me more than anything from the Royal Oak line, and I'm happy that I bought one. As for JLC being a second place manufacture, well, in the words of Jeffrey Lebowski: "That's just, like, your opinion man."

[Andrés G]

Originally Posted by TSW

Myself do like some of the models from JLC but not a big fan of the after- sales handled by Richemont.

I agree 100%. Richemont´s service is the worst I´ve seen. I was a big fan of JLC until my 1 year old Master Calendar stopped working (A screw came off from the movement and they where never able to tell me the reason) and their service center decided to blame it on me. They said it was due to a shock even though there were no markings on the case or any evidence of this happening. For this reason the warranty wasn´t honored and I ended paying an $800 bill.

It was a nightmare dealing with them. The experience was so bad I´ve decided to never purchase a Richemont brand again.

[B. Doggy]

Excellent thread!

[eric23]

They make some great watches for sure.

[ocwatching]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Best kept secret. They're the watchmakers' brand.

the marketing is just not there...
worldwide the pieces are appreciated by WIS but just not enough of 2ndary market value to further its popularity...

wife loves it...

[ocwatching]

Originally Posted by ec10020

JLC and Girard Perregaux suffer similiar fates of always being in the shadow of Patek, Audemars, Vacheron, and now Lange and even Richard Mille.

I love JLC. Bruce Wayne wears a Reverso Grande Taille, the Navy Seals Auto was practically a character in Fast Five, and Tony Stark wears a variety of JLCs.

The problem is, no matter what JLC does product wise, it is always eclipsed by some margin by something from the aforementioned brands.

1. If I want a small thin gold dress watch I'll look to a Patek Calatrava before thinking of JLC Master Control or even the BEAUTIFUL JLC ultra thin.

2. If I want a do it all sportswatch I will look at a Royal Oak Offshore before one of the JLC Master Compressors

3. If I want an incredibly artsy museum piece with an enamel painting on the dial, Id look at something like the Vacheron Masque series before I think of the incredible JLC enamel arty pieces with a naked Venus on the dial.

4. If I want a futuristic watch with a movement made from unobtanium mined from Pandora, Id get a Richard Mille RM037 before I think of the JLC Extreme Lab 2

From the above you can see that JLC is amazing because not only do its products compete in virtually every category, the brand wins second place in everything! None of the marquee brands have the breadth of JLC, Patek cant make a sports watch to save its life, and Audemars dress watches are almost an afterthought to its Royal Oak lines and none of the big three make a convincing Mille competitor.

Unfortunately, second place is still second place and that is why JLC is not hyped as much as the brands that make first place products even though the manufacturer as a whole is very well respected as a workman-like jack of all trades, master of none

Valid points..and add to that a poor marketing scheme...

[slcbbrown]

Part of the reason that most folks don't own or talk about GP, JLC, VC, etc. is the fact that these are tiny companies that make very few watches compared to the Omega's and Rolex' of the world. To compete, they have to find some kind of niche where they don't make a rolex-like watch at a rolex-like price point. Most of these boutique types end up with dress watches, precious metals, high quality and lots of complications, which resticts their market.

JLC, like many others, has to make a fairly dressy and expensive watch to justify a high price to pay for overhead that can only be spread over a small number of watches.

[xbox]

To me, JLC has a range almost entirely built around niches.

Less than mainstream partnerships and similarly, less than mainstream appeal.

[DD GT3 RD]

I personally love them and believe they make a top watch. I was just curious why it didnt seem others do