5167A Price Drop Maybe?

[Jamesd20]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Are you saying that Patek is buying pieces back at higher prices hoping to push the market back up?

Just like the fed, except with a bit less capital than $60bn + per day.....it is that extraordinary?

[Breizh]

Originally Posted by gqmagic

Anyone doing what you said doesn't have a relationship, they're just a customer.

Anyone with a relationship isn't paying retail for anything.

How does one build a relationship then? I'm genuinely asking?
Isn't it by buying lots of other pieces?

I bought an Aquanaut from a SoCal AD back in 2004 or so (back when nobody seemed to like them).
A few years later I finally have the money to purchase a Nautilus (always wanted a simple and complication PP). When I called the AD back, they almost laughed at me, telling me it takes more than an Aquanaut to build a relationship. They then mentioned how they have customers buying jewelry and other pieces on a yearly basis.
So my question is the same I asked them: is building a relashionship based solely on how much money you spend? never mind your passion or true interest in the brand (I grew up a few hours from Geneva and visited the Patek boutique many times as a teen)
So I ended up paying the premium and bought my Nautilus on the grey market. I had no other way to get one, since I'm not relationship material...

[dbfagan]

Originally Posted by Breizh

How does one build a relationship then? I'm genuinely asking?
Isn't it by buying lots of other pieces?

I bought an Aquanaut from a SoCal AD back in 2004 or so (back when nobody seemed to like them).
A few years later I finally have the money to purchase a Nautilus (always wanted a simple and complication PP). When I called the AD back, they almost laughed at me, telling me it takes more than an Aquanaut to build a relationship. They then mentioned how they have customers buying jewelry and other pieces on a yearly basis.
So my question is the same I asked them: is building a relashionship based solely on how much money you spend? never mind your passion or true interest in the brand (I grew up a few hours from Geneva and visited the Patek boutique many times as a teen)
So I ended up paying the premium and bought my Nautilus on the grey market. I had no other way to get one, since I'm not relationship material...

Ditto, bought at least 5 high end watches from a local AD and unable to even be placed on a “list”.

[thomaspp]

Yes totally. Just be patient


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[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by dbfagan

Ditto, bought at least 5 high end watches from a local AD and unable to even be placed on a “list”.

Just curious what was the ballpark range, in total, of these purchases?

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by Breizh

How does one build a relationship then? I'm genuinely asking?
Isn't it by buying lots of other pieces?

I bought an Aquanaut from a SoCal AD back in 2004 or so (back when nobody seemed to like them).
A few years later I finally have the money to purchase a Nautilus (always wanted a simple and complication PP). When I called the AD back, they almost laughed at me, telling me it takes more than an Aquanaut to build a relationship. They then mentioned how they have customers buying jewelry and other pieces on a yearly basis.
So my question is the same I asked them: is building a relashionship based solely on how much money you spend? never mind your passion or true interest in the brand (I grew up a few hours from Geneva and visited the Patek boutique many times as a teen)
So I ended up paying the premium and bought my Nautilus on the grey market. I had no other way to get one, since I'm not relationship material...

Let's cut to the chase here. If your interest in Patek is new within the last 2 to 4 years, or if your prior purchase history is lackluster, the ship left the shore. The only way you're going to "build a relationship" worthy to get these popular watches is to buy a LOT of less desirable items sold by the AD (Complications, Grand Complications, other watches from other brands they sell, jewelry, etc.). If you in fact want these other items, then great! Build the relationship as you should. If you are not interested in these things and you simply want the Nautilus or the Aquanaut, you're playing a fool's game thinking the AD is your ticket to success.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to anybody, but those that say "build a relationship" as if this is just something easily done either have a relationship because they were in the game long before the hype, they are great customers for other product, or they truly found an AD that puts a value on collectors.

As a newer customer, I've been told directly and indirectly by multiple PP AD's there's nothing I can do to ever get a Nautilus or an Aquanaut in the foreseeable future short of buying other watches that add up way beyond what any premium ever was or will be.

I have zero issue with this at all - it's business. AD's are free to sell how and to who they want, and if you as a potential customer don't like it, don't patronize them. Maybe it'll change some day. Maybe it won't.

[Tay821]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Let's cut to the chase here. If your interest in Patek is new within the last 2 to 4 years, or if your prior purchase history is lackluster, the ship left the shore. The only way you're going to "build a relationship" worthy to get these popular watches is to buy a LOT of less desirable items sold by the AD (Complications, Grand Complications, other watches from other brands they sell, jewelry, etc.). If you in fact want these other items, then great! Build the relationship as you should. If you are not interested in these things and you simply want the Nautilus or the Aquanaut, you're playing a fool's game thinking the AD is your ticket to success.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to anybody, but those that say "build a relationship" as if this is just something easily done either have a relationship because they were in the game long before the hype, they are great customers for other product, or they truly found an AD that puts a value on collectors.

As a newer customer, I've been told directly and indirectly by multiple PP AD's there's nothing I can do to ever get a Nautilus or an Aquanaut in the foreseeable future short of buying other watches that add up way beyond what any premium ever was or will be.

I have zero issue with this at all - it's business. AD's are free to sell how and to who they want, and if you as a potential customer don't like it, don't patronize them. Maybe it'll change some day. Maybe it won't.

sounds like you've just had a bad experience with an AD. I'm "new" to patek in the last couple years and have been fortunate enough to get both of the hot pieces you mention. My AD is a good AD who doesnt jump people based on what you buy but rather interest in the hobby and relationships.

There are alot of ADs like mine. Again, think you got dealt a bad hand with the one you're mentioning, but please stop saying its not possible.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by Tay821

sounds like you've just had a bad experience with an AD. I'm "new" to patek in the last couple years and have been fortunate enough to get both of the hot pieces you mention. My AD is a good AD who doesnt jump people based on what you buy but rather interest in the hobby and relationships.

There are alot of ADs like mine. Again, think you got dealt a bad hand with the one you're mentioning, but please stop saying its not possible.

You're correct...I shouldn't say it's not possible as clearly some people (like yourself) are successful. That's great to see and it offers some hope. I did say there is hope when you find an AD that values collectors, which you seem to have found.

[Breizh]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Let's cut to the chase here. If your interest in Patek is new within the last 2 to 4 years, or if your prior purchase history is lackluster, the ship left the shore. The only way you're going to "build a relationship" worthy to get these popular watches is to buy a LOT of less desirable items sold by the AD (Complications, Grand Complications, other watches from other brands they sell, jewelry, etc.). If you in fact want these other items, then great! Build the relationship as you should. If you are not interested in these things and you simply want the Nautilus or the Aquanaut, you're playing a fool's game thinking the AD is your ticket to success.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to anybody, but those that say "build a relationship" as if this is just something easily done either have a relationship because they were in the game long before the hype, they are great customers for other product, or they truly found an AD that puts a value on collectors.

As a newer customer, I've been told directly and indirectly by multiple PP AD's there's nothing I can do to ever get a Nautilus or an Aquanaut in the foreseeable future short of buying other watches that add up way beyond what any premium ever was or will be.

I have zero issue with this at all - it's business. AD's are free to sell how and to who they want, and if you as a potential customer don't like it, don't patronize them. Maybe it'll change some day. Maybe it won't.

Completely agree.
I understand the AD are free to sell how and to whom they want. I also understand that they would sell hot items to their most loyal customers as well.

I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything about the "relationship" building.

I did take exception with that AD about the fact that I was into Aquanauts way before it was "hot" (they had every models available back then) and got zero credit for it, actually a bit of an attitude if I'm honest.
Compare that with the Patek Salon in Geneva giving a full hour tour to a 18 year old with no watch who's just a fan. They were pure class!

[DayTona78]

Relationships matter very little when there are several hundred clients looking for the same piece. Your Money should be the relationship builder and when your AD says "customers who spend 300k a year can't even get one, sorry," only YOU yourself can make a decision/judgement on said relationship and its importance to your daily life.

Some of the thought process behind "the relationship" is just idiotic. If you can't read between the lines, 9 times out of 10, it's the AD's way of politely saying sorry, while getting you to spend money on stuff you didn't want. Pretty slick and effective. I would do the same thing if I was an AD needing to generate income all year round, despite having only 4 watches for 500 customers.

Eff the relationship. Bring your money.

And if what you want isn't available, just wait and/or deal with it. Jeez.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by Breizh

Compare that with the Patek Salon in Geneva giving a full hour tour to a 18 year old with no watch who's just a fan. They were pure class!

Quite true. However, try buying a "hot piece" from the Salon and see how far that goes. Nowhere. Fast. Unless Swiss or "VIP," and with an established relationship with the Salon.

[offrdmania]

Im starting to see 5167As with B&P at around 27K retail right now. They are coming way down.

[thomaspp]

I do


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[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Im starting to see 5167As with B&P at around 27K retail right now. They are coming way down.

Where? C24 shows the cheapest at $29k, as does Watchrecon.


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[gejay99]

If it ever gets 25k, I’ll take one


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[sm1810]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Where? C24 shows the cheapest at $29k, as does Watchrecon.


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Remember c24 charges also 6.5% of sale.


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[offrdmania]

Here is just one example, it includes B&P as well. It was available when I posted above.

C24 doesnt count because most of the dealers on there dont actually have a watch on hand. They source them when it sells so they probably arent going to drop the listed price. You have to search for private sellers who physically have a watch in their hands.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Here is just one example, it includes B&P as well. It was available when I posted above.

C24 doesnt count because most of the dealers on there dont actually have a watch on hand. They source them when it sells so they probably arent going to drop the listed price. You have to search for private sellers who physically have a watch in their hands.

Interesting. Are a lot of people here buying on eBay ? Is this secure ?

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by dauster

Interesting. Are a lot of people here buying on eBay ? Is this secure ?

Its more secure for a buyer as long as you are verified through PayPal and dont deviate from the payment methods that eBay wants you to use. If you do then there is buyer protection.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Here is just one example, it includes B&P as well. It was available when I posted above.

C24 doesnt count because most of the dealers on there dont actually have a watch on hand. They source them when it sells so they probably arent going to drop the listed price. You have to search for private sellers who physically have a watch in their hands.

Reliable seller?

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

Reliable seller?

It has already sold at that price.

The seller has been on eBay since 04 and has over 2500 sales as a seller. Mostly in coins and precious metals. I see a few watches that have been sold but not many. Looks like they are just taking advantage of the dropping prices.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Here is just one example, it includes B&P as well. It was available when I posted above.

C24 doesnt count because most of the dealers on there dont actually have a watch on hand. They source them when it sells so they probably arent going to drop the listed price. You have to search for private sellers who physically have a watch in their hands.

Seems a bit harsh to claim that most dealers on Chrono24 don't have a watch on hand. My experience is different but then I am not looking at 5167s.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by ts3

Seems a bit harsh to claim that most dealers on Chrono24 don't have a watch on hand. My experience is different but then I am not looking at 5167s.

There may be a few that do but my guess is that a majority of them do not.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by sm1810

Remember c24 charges also 6.5% of sale.

Indeed. I also, take the view that the advertised price is the start of the negotiation. That being said, the lowest price is till $29k, which is way too high

Originally Posted by dauster

Interesting. Are a lot of people here buying on eBay ? Is this secure ?

Yes, I'm not sure I would.

Originally Posted by offrdmania

There may be a few that do but my guess is that a majority of them do not.

In my experience of C24, most sellers have the watches they are advertising.

[dbfagan]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Just curious what was the ballpark range, in total, of these purchases?

I purchased a 2 tone Sub, a Day Date II, a Patek Travel Time, a Panerai, and an IWC 5002. Not sure the exact numbers but all at retail. I have also purchased several pm deployants over the years along with all my straps and service.


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[victoorious]

man..I recently bought a 5164 for 44k. thinking now I should have waited.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by dbfagan

I purchased a 2 tone Sub, a Day Date II, a Patek Travel Time, a Panerai, and an IWC 5002. Not sure the exact numbers but all at retail. I have also purchased several pm deployants over the years along with all my straps and service.


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So you are saying you bought close to 100k worth of watches and they won't put you on the list for a 5167A? Seems like you have little to lose if you give up on this AD...

[dbfagan]

Originally Posted by ts3

So you are saying you bought close to 100k worth of watches and they won't put you on the list for a 5167A? Seems like you have little to lose if you give up on this AD...

Sadly, I have given up on AD’s in general. I buy from a few trusted “grays” and my vintage stuff from some trusted TRF members. I don’t get too wrapped up on MSRP as this number applies only to the people that can build the AD relationship. I also do not look at watches as appreciating assets, if I like it and am willing to pay the asking price, I buy it. I’ve been fortunate on some purchases and taken a bath on others.

[francoamerican]

Originally Posted by dbfagan

Sadly, I have given up on AD’s in general. I buy from a few trusted “grays” and my vintage stuff from some trusted TRF members. I don’t get too wrapped up on MSRP as this number applies only to the people that can build the AD relationship. I also do not look at watches as appreciating assets, if I like it and am willing to pay the asking price, I buy it. I’ve been fortunate on some purchases and taken a bath on others.

Clearly there are many people voting with their wallets like you are - it makes more sense than what seems to be required otherwise to buy at MSRP.

I wonder what % of grey inventory is

1. AD selling to co conspirators and then splitting the profits later.

2. Big spenders who flip to offset their spending a bit

3. Buyers who bought one or two pieces that are hot now, without any big fanfare prior to 2017, but "sold high" after the big jump from 2017-to-date.

[Humble michael]

Sadly , I had a great AD and had a great relationship. Bought a 5990 & 5711R last year and PP closed the door on him due to their reduction in Us Ad’s. Bought my wife a 24 this year and a 5723 blue. I have several others and it’s obvious I love fine timepieces but in trying to find a new ad is almost impossible.I want to purchase a 5168 blue and a 5711 SS or maybe a 5726 on bracelet blue. Always the same sad story - buy some other pieces I have no desire or need of then- maybe. Soooo I guess I will have to limp along w my present collection. :-))wahhh