What happens to unsold run out watches?

[AHG]

I have been looking at multiple Pateks that I’d be happy with. I am someone who likes his things to be new, so I’m always drawn to the idea of new old stock watches. But being a novice to all this, I am curious as to the legitimacy of these being sold by non-AD’s.

What happens to watches that are run out? For example, the 5327J that’s $88k is being run out. First given this, how big of a discount can be expected from the AD?

If they don’t sell the watch, what happens next usually? How long do they hold on to the watch before selling to a secondary dealer, and at how much discount?
Again as an example, the 5327 is being sold new by secondary dealers in the mid $60’s before negotiations. So I assume they buy it for much less from the AD. Is it reasonable to go to the AD and ask for the timepiece at a price you would expect is sold to the secondary dealer, assuming that’s how it works. Also I’m taking into consideration the more uncertain economic situation right now.

Thanks for your responses.


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[peter_shore]

Originally Posted by AHG

I have been looking at multiple Pateks that I’d be happy with. I am someone who likes his things to be new, so I’m always drawn to the idea of new old stock watches. But being a novice to all this, I am curious as to the legitimacy of these being sold by non-AD’s.

What happens to watches that are run out. For example, the 5327H that’s $88k is being run out. First given this, how big of a discount can be expected from the AD?

If they don’t sell the watch, what happens next usually? How long do they hold on to the watch before selling to a secondary dealer, and at how much discount?
Again as an example, the 5327 is being sold new by secondary dealers in the mid $60’s before negotiations. So I assume they buy it for much less from the AD. Is it reasonable to go to the AD and ask for the timepiece at a price you would expect is sold to the secondary dealer, assuming that’s how it works. Also I’m taking into consideration the more uncertain economic situation right now.

Thanks for your responses.


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They would keep the watches as long as they need to find a buyer. In the UK AD's are tightly regulated and they don't sell directly to grey market. My AD Laings had a 5170J for many years before it was sold to a collector.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by AHG

I have been looking at multiple Pateks that I’d be happy with. I am someone who likes his things to be new, so I’m always drawn to the idea of new old stock watches. But being a novice to all this, I am curious as to the legitimacy of these being sold by non-AD’s.

What happens to watches that are run out? For example, the 5327J that’s $88k is being run out. First given this, how big of a discount can be expected from the AD?

If they don’t sell the watch, what happens next usually? How long do they hold on to the watch before selling to a secondary dealer, and at how much discount?
Again as an example, the 5327 is being sold new by secondary dealers in the mid $60’s before negotiations. So I assume they buy it for much less from the AD. Is it reasonable to go to the AD and ask for the timepiece at a price you would expect is sold to the secondary dealer, assuming that’s how it works. Also I’m taking into consideration the more uncertain economic situation right now.

Thanks for your responses.


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I understand after a long period of not selling (3 years I think), an AD can return the piece to Patek for a free service and then put the piece in their window as used with a one year warranty. Not sure of the level of price reduction but it is sold as used - don’t know about name on papers. It will never to sold direct to a secondary dealer.

[AHG]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I understand after a long period of not selling (3 years I think), an AD can return the piece to Patek for a free service and the put the piece in their window as used with a one year warranty. Not sure of the level of price reduction but it is sold as used. It will never to sold direct to a secondary dealer.

So how are these secondary dealers getting all of these new watches? Check out this dealer. All of their unopened watches are from the same AD in the UK.

https://www.finewatchbank.com/patek-philippe-watches/


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[Jamesd20]

Originally Posted by AHG

So how are these secondary dealers getting all of these new watches? Check out this dealer. All of their unopened watches are from the same AD in the UK.

Interesting site......I want to know where all the Nautilus and aquanaut went they received to get all those PP models...

[scurfa]

Berry’s still have a few discontinued models floating around from shop to shop

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by AHG

So how are these secondary dealers getting all of these new watches? Check out this dealer. All of their unopened watches are from the same AD in the UK.

https://www.finewatchbank.com/patek-philippe-watches/


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Why do you suggest they are getting stock direct from a UK AD, this is a US company? I can see some pieces are from the UK but not from a single AD and they are dated many years ago, who knows how many hands they have passed through.

[kultschar]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Why do you suggest they are getting stock direct from a UK AD, this is a US company? I can see some pieces are from the UK but they are dated many years ago, who knows how many hands they have passed through.

I think he means when you click on the further pictures of each watch you see the paperwork.

Edit: note you have seen this

[Jamesd20]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Why do you suggest they are getting stock direct from a UK AD, this is a US company? I can see some pieces are from the UK but not from a single AD and they are dated many years ago, who knows how many hands they have passed through.

I only clicked on 6 and they were all Mappin and Webb. From a long time ago though

[benlee]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I understand after a long period of not selling (3 years I think), an AD can return the piece to Patek for a free service and then put the piece in their window as used with a one year warranty. Not sure of the level of price reduction but it is sold as used - don’t know about name on papers. It will never to sold direct to a secondary dealer.

That's new. I never heard of this. Is this a global practice? In my part of the world, ie Asia, it's not rare to find less popular Pateks sitting in shelves for years on end unwanted. I think one of the AD in Singapore still keep a 5170J around.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by benlee

That's new. I never heard of this. Is this a global practice? In my part of the world, ie Asia, it's not rare to find less popular Pateks sitting in shelves for years on end unwanted. I think one of the AD in Singapore still keep a 5170J around.

I’m not sure it’s global but I don’t see why not. AD’s can keep a piece new and on sale for as long as they feel comfortable, this is a method of moving old discontinued stock at a reduced price if the AD wishes.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I understand after a long period of not selling (3 years I think), an AD can return the piece to Patek for a free service and then put the piece in their window as used with a one year warranty. Not sure of the level of price reduction but it is sold as used - don’t know about name on papers. It will never to sold direct to a secondary dealer.

Never heard of this, very interesting!

QUESTION: Why only 1 year warranty instead of 5 or 8 like many other brands? Does Patek not stand behind the quality of their timepieces like many other brands do? My Cartier and Panerai, for example, include an 8 year warranty once you register it on their website. As we all know, Rolex offers a 5 year warranty (and if you purchase from Mayors Jewellers / Watches Of Switzerland they double that to an outstanding 10 years of warranty).

[qrc36]

Just some things I've learned from two ADs in Hong Kong:

Sometimes watches which have been discontinued for years and years can show up in a delivery from Patek. The store did not ask for it, but it just shows up. As it's a shipment from Patek it's all double sealed and has an empty certificate.

Examples - my AD just got a 5235G weeks ago. Months ago they got a 5139G. Another AD in Hong Kong got 5140R half a year ago. They guess it's unsold stock which some AD have returned to Patek, and then Patek releases them to other ADs to see if it sells.

Oh and I got the 5140G from an AD in Singapore just months ago. It's been sitting there for years unsold, together with its J and R siblings.

[AHG]

Originally Posted by qrc36

Just some things I've learned from two ADs in Hong Kong:

Sometimes watches which have been discontinued for years and years can show up in a delivery from Patek. The store did not ask for it, but it just shows up. As it's a shipment from Patek it's all double sealed and has an empty certificate.

Examples - my AD just got a 5235G weeks ago. Months ago they got a 5139G. Another AD in Hong Kong got 5140R half a year ago. They guess it's unsold stock which some AD have returned to Patek, and then Patek releases them to other ADs to see if it sells.

Oh and I got the 5140G from an AD in Singapore just months ago. It's been sitting there for years unsold, together with its J and R siblings.

I would love to be able to find a new 5140J from an AD here. How hefty was the discount if I may ask, equivalent or better than the grey market?


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[Fat_ninja]

They get reincarnated as a lange

[AHG]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

They get reincarnated as a lange

You mean they get technically better and cheaper ;)


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[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by AHG

You mean they get technically better and cheaper ;)


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Exactly

[qrc36]

Originally Posted by AHG

I would love to be able to find a new 5140J from an AD here. How hefty was the discount if I may ask, equivalent or better than the grey market?
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Just standard 10% discount off list price in HK (I didn't ask for the price, as I got the 5140G in Singapore already).

[jon_jon]

Many years ago, I saw a discontinued 5800/1A Nautilus at an AD window 4-5 years after it was discontinued. Today that would be unheard of, but it also depends on the local economy as well as supply/demand. At this specific AD, SA said they have very few local buyers and most Patek purchasers are foreigners.

[Calatrava r]

Patek dealers hold watches until they sell. Need something in the case. Most everything sells at some point for a reasonable price.

[martinr]

Read the terms and conditions on Fine Watch Bank website. Those pictures of double sealed watches may not be the watch they send you. Get it in writing.

[peter_shore]

Originally Posted by AHG

So how are these secondary dealers getting all of these new watches? Check out this dealer. All of their unopened watches are from the same AD in the UK.

https://www.finewatchbank.com/patek-philippe-watches/


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It appears most of the pieces are from Mappin and Webb/Watches of Switzerland. That could be the reason Watches of Switzerland down to 3 ADs and Mappin and Webb down to 1.

[kneedeep]

When they start showing up at BigLots time to bail.....

[dauster]

Ok somebody that has been dealing with watches a long time has to finally tell me the truth.

Do some ADs sell out the back to greys or not? I keep reading "of course not my AD only sells to true collectors and overall my AD is the best and most honest person on the planet" and then I hear" of course they sell out the back and then give multiple examples of 5711s that were sold 2 weeks earlier".

I understand that I am exaggerating but I am having a really hard time believing that there are not doing that but would love to know more. I apologize if this subject has been beaten to death for some here.

[zahain]

Originally Posted by dauster

Ok somebody that has been dealing with watches a long time has to finally tell me the truth.

Do some ADs sell out the back to greys or not? I keep reading "of course not my AD only sells to true collectors and overall my AD is the best and most honest person on the planet" and then I hear" of course they sell out the back and then give multiple examples of 5711s that were sold 2 weeks earlier".

I understand that I am exaggerating but I am having a really hard time believing that there are not doing that but would love to know more. I apologize if this subject has been beaten to death for some here.

The ones that have high amount of clients / sales wont need to sell to grey as they move most of their inventory and have the ability to keep whatever is low in demand in stock until it does move or they would just discount it to existing clients. The ones that don’t do as well, will move their slow stuff to greys along with 1-2 hot models as the kicker.

With this pandemic and prices for all hot Rolex, Patek, Ap ect models dropping, you can expect AD’s to sell to greys even more as less people buy so they can survive. The grey market goes hand in hand with AD’s and neither can live without eachother


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by zahain

The ones that have high amount of clients / sales wont need to sell to grey as they move most of their inventory and have the ability to keep whatever is low in demand in stock until it does move or they would just discount it to existing clients. The ones that don’t do as well, will move their slow stuff to greys along with 1-2 hot models as the kicker.

With this pandemic and prices for all hot Rolex, Patek, Ap ect models dropping, you can expect AD’s to sell to greys even more as less people buy so they can survive. The grey market goes hand in hand with AD’s and neither can live without eachother


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Thanks that makes a lot of sense... not psyched about hearing that AD will sell even more to greys but your explanation makes a lot of sense

[kneedeep]

ADs sell popular models to greys at over MSRP to offset sales to greys of unpopular models at less than MSRP.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

ADs sell popular models to greys at over MSRP to offset sales to greys of unpopular models at less than MSRP.

I’m surprised they bother with retail customers.

[kneedeep]

The inefficiency and cost of ADs as a sales channel (middleman) for these goods is huge. Dinosaurs on the path to extinction. Manufacturers sell online and deliver to customers through AD points (authorized deliverers) who swipe a card or scan an RFID chip to confirm delivery and start warranty. ADs get 5% for their trouble as a handling fee and are relieved of ridiculous amounts of unsellable inventory. The manufacturer banks more money or shares savings with buyer via lower online price. Who needs to pay thousands extra for a glass of champagne and a pretty tie from an AD?

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by kneedeep

The inefficiency and cost of ADs as a sales channel (middleman) for these goods is huge. Dinosaurs on the path to extinction. Manufacturers sell online and deliver to customers through AD points (authorized deliverers) who swipe a card or scan an RFID chip to confirm delivery and start warranty. ADs get 5% for their trouble as a handling fee and are relieved of ridiculous amounts of unsellable inventory. The manufacturer banks more money or shares savings with buyer via lower online price. Who needs to pay thousands extra for a glass of champagne and a pretty tie from an AD?

I do.

I wouldn’t entertain buying a Patek or Lange or for that matter even a Rolex new if it was simply delivered in the post. The purchase experience is an integral part of the overall pleasure.

https://www.laingsuk.com/blog/2016/0...atek-philippe/