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Old 6 April 2020, 10:49 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
A handful of buyers are calling attention to the softening market while the rest are licking their chops excited to watch anyone who made money off of a watch to suffer financially including ADs. That’s why I have got to assume that you have not read this whole thread or any of the other ones in their entirety. If you had you would understand what I’m saying and either agree with me or agree with them. There are most definitely guys participating in this thread that are just happy if they could buy a green sub or Pepsi at MSRP. Then there are others that seem extremely happy that the whole system could quite possibly collapse and are happy to capitalize off that especially if it teaches a few people lessons that should’ve never in their eyes allowed prices to get where they were to begin with.
I hope that clarifies where I’ve been coming from.

Vulture (noun): any greedy and ruthless person who preys on others (i.e., grays in tight watch market)

I think the word you were looking for was something along the lines of “schadenfreude.”

Googling “[word] + definition” is your friend, dude. Use it.

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Old 6 April 2020, 10:52 AM   #632
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Originally Posted by goodolejr View Post
Vulture (noun): any greedy and ruthless person who preys on others (i.e., grays in tight watch market)

I think the word you were looking for was something along the lines of “schadenfreude.”

Googling “[word] + definition” is your friend, dude. Use it.

Enjoy your evening.


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The two words are practically synonymous but don’t worry about it. I just wanted to get back to you because you asked. I’ll be done with this thread since I’ve been called sanctimonious and a troll. You have a great evening as well.
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Old 6 April 2020, 10:52 AM   #633
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Can this thread go back to watching prices? I’m mot planning to buy because of economic uncertainty, but I still find the price movements interesting. I think it watch prices are an indicator of how high end consumer products are doing more generally.
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Old 6 April 2020, 10:53 AM   #634
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The one with the hair over it’s eyes is me right now, considering I can’t get a hair cut. So this is accurate
I'm the one on the middle right, next to you
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Old 6 April 2020, 10:56 AM   #635
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The two words are practically synonymous but don’t worry about it. I just wanted to get back to you because you asked. I’ll be done with this thread since I’ve been called sanctimonious and a troll. You have a great evening as well.
Except they're not. One is associated with exploiting for some kind of tangible gain, and the other is mainly, if not completely, emotional.
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Old 6 April 2020, 11:16 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by outdoors_guy View Post
Can this thread go back to watching prices? I’m mot planning to buy because of economic uncertainty, but I still find the price movements interesting. I think it watch prices are an indicator of how high end consumer products are doing more generally.


Plus one.

Don't hate on greys, they're just making a buck like the rest of us. If there's anyone to hate on it's Rolex for not keeping up with demand. WIS's are the only brand of enthusiasts that blame the resellers and not the market/producer.

The flippers/greys are in a tough market and will suffer as a result of the economy. That's the downside of being in a high risk industry.

Don't hate and give them a pass.


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Old 6 April 2020, 11:54 AM   #637
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I don’t think that’s what he meant. I think he means it’s disappointing to see so much dislike/ anger for our trusted sellers and other Grey dealers hoping that they will now suffer financially since a recession is probably upon us. All because some people are mad at them because they have sold and are still selling watches for what people will freely pay for them.
What's your thought on grays actively removing links from the watches they buy in order to sell those same links at a substantial markup? No offense, but you seem awfully naive with your word choices and one-way compassion.

Few if any of us are seriously wishing ill on anyone, even those with scummy practices. But pain is the fate of those who blow bubbles and practice predatory policies. Most people know this in their gut but hope to leave someone else holding the bag when the music stops.

They lusted after our money when times were good. Was that wrong? If not, why is it wrong for us to lust after low prices when times aren't good? Personally, I think that it's sad to be admonished that wanting a deal is somehow inappropriate.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:13 PM   #638
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Well... this thread seems to have it's share of hand wringing and jumping about. I'm curious about IF the grey markets Rolex prices fall - longer than say 15 minutes and by just how far too.

I consider this a very natural curiosity as I've had my eye on an Explorer II for a year now.

If somebody out there considers me a vulture...I'm guilty, bubba.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:13 PM   #639
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I can’t believe people want to say ‘oh this guy who is selling his ten thousand dollar watch STILL above MSRP is a *sad* story’. What kind of sympathetic world are you living in? How about actual individuals who were barely making ends meet and now can’t pay rent? How about those with a positive COVID diagnosis fighting to get a ventilator in current climate? How about the worldwide problems that existed with children dying from starvation before any of this even started?

But you think some guy who has $15k in excess to throw on a luxury product taking a small hit (albeit STILL above what it sells for in stores) is a ‘sad’ story? Unreal, at times I feel some on here never leave their McMansion.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:15 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by outdoors_guy View Post
Can this thread go back to watching prices? I’m mot planning to buy because of economic uncertainty, but I still find the price movements interesting. I think it watch prices are an indicator of how high end consumer products are doing more generally.
Watchrecon is a better place to focus on IMO. Chrono24 is still asking absurd prices that they will never get. We’re seeing the true trends on here, WatchUSeek etc
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:23 PM   #641
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I can’t believe people want to say ‘oh this guy who is selling his ten thousand dollar watch STILL above MSRP is a *sad* story’. What kind of sympathetic world are you living in? How about actual individuals who were barely making ends meet and now can’t pay rent? How about those with a positive COVID diagnosis fighting to get a ventilator in current climate? How about the worldwide problems that existed with children dying from starvation before any of this even started?

But you think some guy who has $15k in excess to throw on a luxury product taking a small hit (albeit STILL above what it sells for in stores) is a ‘sad’ story? Unreal, at times I feel some on here never leave their McMansion.
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Watchrecon is a better place to focus on IMO. Chrono24 is still asking absurd prices that they will never get. We’re seeing the true trends on here, WatchUSeek etc
Two great points.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:38 PM   #642
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I will admit, I find the whole thing interesting as a watch collector, as a student of psychology, and as a topic nof topic of sociology...

I also have been waiting for a Pepsi ...

The fact of the matter is, we have all been given the opportunity to benefit from the advice that keeps being repeated on thread after thread, post after post : "if you PAY MSRP, you'll likely always be OK... if you pay a premium, but are buying for love of the watch, you'll always be ok".

Those rules apply to the greys as well... by supporting and creating this Above-MSRP market, they forced themselves to overpay...

They made a conscious, strategic decision... if their margins are fixed at ~ 1K(ish) above their cost, they could have made the same profit and kept prices reasonable, and in the process extinguished "fly by night flippers" occupying space on wait lists...

This was pure greed.. and if you live by the sword, you should be prepared to die by the sword...

I think most people here have entered that anger stage of grief... even those who won't lose money, because they bought well, or don't plan to sell, are faced with having to grieve the loss of that "special status" of having obtained a Pepsi/Daytona whatever...

I think it's disingenuous and wrong to begrudge others for wanting to have a watch that you also wanted, but were blessed enough to have obtained... are we expected to believe and accept that you are all just better, more deserving human beings?

Honestly the tone of those violently opposing the falling prices, and their anger towards others who are hopeful for getting a watch they've waited patiently to have, is appalling.. and quite transparent in revealing your insecurities...

Let's hope we all reach acceptance soon, so we can go back to supporting each other and congratulating each other on our watches.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:42 PM   #643
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Honestly the tone of those violently opposing the falling prices, and their anger towards others who are hopeful for getting a watch they've waited patiently to have, is appalling.. and quite transparent in revealing your insecurities...
Money, more specifically the loss of money, brings out the true character of many individuals. Ever witnessed a family dispute over a will? It gets ugly.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:43 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by SUPERDOC View Post
I will admit, I find the whole thing interesting as a watch collector, as a student of psychology, and as a topic nof topic of sociology...

I also have been waiting for a Pepsi ...

The fact of the matter is, we have all been given the opportunity to benefit from the advice that keeps being repeated on thread after thread, post after post : "if you PAY MSRP, you'll likely always be OK... if you pay a premium, but are buying for love of the watch, you'll always be ok".

Those rules apply to the greys as well... by supporting and creating this Above-MSRP market, they forced themselves to overpay...

They made a conscious, strategic decision... if their margins are fixed at ~ 1K(ish) above their cost, they could have made the same profit and kept prices reasonable, and in the process extinguished "fly by night flippers" occupying space on wait lists...

This was pure greed.. and if you live by the sword, you should be prepared to die by the sword...

I think most people here have entered that anger stage of grief... even those who won't lose money, because they bought well, or don't plan to sell, are faced with having to grieve the loss of that "special status" of having obtained a Pepsi/Daytona whatever...

I think it's disingenuous and wrong to begrudge others for wanting to have a watch that you also wanted, but were blessed enough to have obtained... are we expected to believe and accept that you are all just better, more deserving human beings?

Honestly the tone of those violently opposing the falling prices, and their anger towards others who are hopeful for getting a watch they've waited patiently to have, is appalling.. and quite transparent in revealing your insecurities...

Let's hope we all reach acceptance soon, so we can go back to supporting each other and congratulating each other on our watches.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:48 PM   #645
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Honestly the tone of those violently opposing the falling prices, and their anger towards others who are hopeful for getting a watch they've waited patiently to have, is appalling.. and quite transparent in revealing your insecurities...
The ship abounds with rats. In other words, grays are also in these forums and what you’re witnessing is their pathetic attempt to rescue their position in a market that is quickly fading faster that you could say COVID-19.
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Old 6 April 2020, 12:51 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by SUPERDOC View Post
I will admit, I find the whole thing interesting as a watch collector, as a student of psychology, and as a topic nof topic of sociology...

I also have been waiting for a Pepsi ...

The fact of the matter is, we have all been given the opportunity to benefit from the advice that keeps being repeated on thread after thread, post after post : "if you PAY MSRP, you'll likely always be OK... if you pay a premium, but are buying for love of the watch, you'll always be ok".

Those rules apply to the greys as well... by supporting and creating this Above-MSRP market, they forced themselves to overpay...

They made a conscious, strategic decision... if their margins are fixed at ~ 1K(ish) above their cost, they could have made the same profit and kept prices reasonable, and in the process extinguished "fly by night flippers" occupying space on wait lists...

This was pure greed.. and if you live by the sword, you should be prepared to die by the sword...

I think most people here have entered that anger stage of grief... even those who won't lose money, because they bought well, or don't plan to sell, are faced with having to grieve the loss of that "special status" of having obtained a Pepsi/Daytona whatever...

I think it's disingenuous and wrong to begrudge others for wanting to have a watch that you also wanted, but were blessed enough to have obtained... are we expected to believe and accept that you are all just better, more deserving human beings?

Honestly the tone of those violently opposing the falling prices, and their anger towards others who are hopeful for getting a watch they've waited patiently to have, is appalling.. and quite transparent in revealing your insecurities...

Let's hope we all reach acceptance soon, so we can go back to supporting each other and congratulating each other on our watches.

I love that, live by the sword, die by the sword.


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Old 6 April 2020, 01:20 PM   #647
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80/20 hits again: most of the interesting ideas can be found in the first few comments of this topic.

Even that nice spreadsheet disappeared so I guess the OP is disappointed too


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Old 6 April 2020, 01:30 PM   #648
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Could it be that “daily tracker” was meant as business days only? Thanks God wkd is over.


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Old 6 April 2020, 01:31 PM   #649
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It seems some people are mistakenly correlating preferring watches at retail price with being happy there’s a global pandemic and economy tanking... I’m pretty sure you can be sad with the state of the world/economy but at the same time also be ok with watches being cheaper.

You should start this thread new every week (and maybe number or code it) with updates and include screenshots from the previous weeks. Will be better with less clutter and have all the updates in the first post. Just an idea.
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Old 6 April 2020, 02:10 PM   #650
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The ship abounds with rats. In other words, grays are also in these forums and what you’re witnessing is their pathetic attempt to rescue their position in a market that is quickly fading faster that you could say COVID-19.
Yep. It's impossible to prove, but the constant posts here praising grays always makes me feel like there's some kind of collusion going on.

Grown men effusively fawning over other men from a wristwatch transaction just seems off.
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Old 6 April 2020, 03:50 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by SUPERDOC View Post
I will admit, I find the whole thing interesting as a watch collector, as a student of psychology, and as a topic nof topic of sociology...

I also have been waiting for a Pepsi ...

The fact of the matter is, we have all been given the opportunity to benefit from the advice that keeps being repeated on thread after thread, post after post : "if you PAY MSRP, you'll likely always be OK... if you pay a premium, but are buying for love of the watch, you'll always be ok".

Those rules apply to the greys as well... by supporting and creating this Above-MSRP market, they forced themselves to overpay...

They made a conscious, strategic decision... if their margins are fixed at ~ 1K(ish) above their cost, they could have made the same profit and kept prices reasonable, and in the process extinguished "fly by night flippers" occupying space on wait lists...

This was pure greed.. and if you live by the sword, you should be prepared to die by the sword...

I think most people here have entered that anger stage of grief... even those who won't lose money, because they bought well, or don't plan to sell, are faced with having to grieve the loss of that "special status" of having obtained a Pepsi/Daytona whatever...

I think it's disingenuous and wrong to begrudge others for wanting to have a watch that you also wanted, but were blessed enough to have obtained... are we expected to believe and accept that you are all just better, more deserving human beings?

Honestly the tone of those violently opposing the falling prices, and their anger towards others who are hopeful for getting a watch they've waited patiently to have, is appalling.. and quite transparent in revealing your insecurities...

Let's hope we all reach acceptance soon, so we can go back to supporting each other and congratulating each other on our watches.
Hey Doc! Good to have you back, I always enjoy your insight - and got to meet you first over at the Omega Forums.

I agree with you - some people are proud of wearing coveted pieces, and that pride might loose its lustre if they become more widely available. But that is not an issue to me. I recently watched an interview with the CEO of WEMPE USA on the Watch-advisor Youtube channel - he said they received more Rolex watches this year than last; so with demand decreasing, the incomings among enthusiasts will increase!
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Old 6 April 2020, 04:13 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by SUPERDOC View Post
I will admit, I find the whole thing interesting as a watch collector, as a student of psychology, and as a topic nof topic of sociology...

I also have been waiting for a Pepsi ...

The fact of the matter is, we have all been given the opportunity to benefit from the advice that keeps being repeated on thread after thread, post after post : "if you PAY MSRP, you'll likely always be OK... if you pay a premium, but are buying for love of the watch, you'll always be ok".

Those rules apply to the greys as well... by supporting and creating this Above-MSRP market, they forced themselves to overpay...

They made a conscious, strategic decision... if their margins are fixed at ~ 1K(ish) above their cost, they could have made the same profit and kept prices reasonable, and in the process extinguished "fly by night flippers" occupying space on wait lists...

This was pure greed.. and if you live by the sword, you should be prepared to die by the sword...

I think most people here have entered that anger stage of grief... even those who won't lose money, because they bought well, or don't plan to sell, are faced with having to grieve the loss of that "special status" of having obtained a Pepsi/Daytona whatever...

I think it's disingenuous and wrong to begrudge others for wanting to have a watch that you also wanted, but were blessed enough to have obtained... are we expected to believe and accept that you are all just better, more deserving human beings?

Honestly the tone of those violently opposing the falling prices, and their anger towards others who are hopeful for getting a watch they've waited patiently to have, is appalling.. and quite transparent in revealing your insecurities...

Let's hope we all reach acceptance soon, so we can go back to supporting each other and congratulating each other on our watches.

Fantastic post.


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Old 7 April 2020, 12:19 AM   #653
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The DOW stock market surge 5.0% today against all odds and common sense. Millions of Americans lost their jobs, factories are closed down, yet something is raising the level. Allegedly, the Covid is slowing down .. Or this is all just another bull trap?

I am among those who believe the prices of watches will go down in the upcoming months, but this may as well prove to be nothing more than a good opportunity to buy certain professional models for a bit lower than usual. The stock market manipulation is staggering these days.

However, can we actually experience even greater (artificial) shortage of Rolex watches during the Autumn/Winter once the factory fully restart the production, or the middle class who should be the strongest buyer of Rolex watches will actually be the one most affected with the current chaos and the vast majority of buyers will be gone ..
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Old 7 April 2020, 12:25 AM   #654
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The DOW stock market surge 5.0% today against all odds and common sense. Millions of Americans lost their jobs, factories are closed down, yet something is raising the level. Allegedly, the Covid is slowing down .. Or this is all just another bull trap?

I am among those who believe the prices of watches will go down in the upcoming months, but this may as well prove to be nothing more than a good opportunity to buy certain professional models for a bit lower than usual. The stock market manipulation is staggering these days.

However, can we actually experience even greater (artificial) shortage of Rolex watches during the Autumn/Winter once the factory fully restart the production, or the middle class who should be the strongest buyer of Rolex watches will actually be the one most affected with the current chaos and the vast majority of buyers will be gone ..
Lol @ market right now, we’ve got a long way to go down my friend. Just think logically about what you just said but the market is up 5%.
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Old 7 April 2020, 12:34 AM   #655
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This thread is full of new fleas at TRF making wild accusations, innuendos and off topic discussions. My guess the Mods will be locking it up soon as it has ran its course into the ground. The sponsors that support TRF deserve better.
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Old 7 April 2020, 12:42 AM   #656
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A handful of buyers are calling attention to the softening market while the rest are licking their chops excited to watch anyone who made money off of a watch to suffer financially including ADs. That’s why I have got to assume that you have not read this whole thread or any of the other ones in their entirety. If you had you would understand what I’m saying and either agree with me or agree with them. There are most definitely guys participating in this thread that are just happy if they could buy a green sub or Pepsi at MSRP. Then there are others that seem extremely happy that the whole system could quite possibly collapse and are happy to capitalize off that especially if it teaches a few people lessons that should’ve never in their eyes allowed prices to get where they were to begin with.
I hope that clarifies where I’ve been coming from.

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some of the sanctimonious/maudlin garbage being posted on here is what makes me sad. weird people who think it is remarkable that watch enthusiasts might have some interest in cheaper watches.

honestly if you don't like the thread or don't want to participate in the thread just don't.

also posters, in case you didn't know, posting your disapproval re: an issue repeatedly on a thread IS trolling. this is why people say you're a troll. because you get involved in things you don't approve of and distract and antagonise. if this thread ain't for you maybe it ain't for you.

Many people on this thread are butthurt^ over their introduction to capitalism. It’s binary. There are winners and losers. It’s been a bull market for 4 plus years on the grey scene and Ads who forced package deals on buyers or sold out the backdoor to greys.

The douchebaggery on the Ad scene in particular has been incredible since the boom. Sales reps laughing at you or not giving customers the time of day because it was a hot market and they didn’t need you. The party is over.


They’ve killed it and made a ton of money. Now their sun is setting. It’ll rise again one day again. It’s all cyclical and market corrections are guaranteed.

Everyone needs to put on their big boy dockers and realize the reality of the free market versus soap box monologues on ethics and “the angerrrrr.” Toughen up and get with the program. This is the free market.

Those who have waited patiently for their shot at a hard to get watch is coming and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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Old 7 April 2020, 12:48 AM   #657
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Many people on this thread are butthurt^ over their introduction to capitalism. It’s binary. There are winners and losers. It’s been a bull market for 4 plus years on the grey scene and Ads who forced package deals on buyers or sold out the backdoor to greys.

The douchebaggery on the Ad scene in particular has been incredible since the boom. Sales reps laughing at you or not giving customers the time of day because it was a hot market and they didn’t need you. The party is over.


They’ve killed it and made a ton of money. Now their sun is setting. It’ll rise again one day again. It’s all cyclical and market corrections are guaranteed.

Everyone needs to put on their big boy dockers and realize the reality of the free market versus soap box monologues on ethics and “the angerrrrr.” Toughen up and get with the program. This is the free market.

Those who have waited patiently for their shot at a hard to get watch is coming and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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+1 to that


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Old 7 April 2020, 12:49 AM   #658
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The DOW stock market surge 5.0% today against all odds and common sense. Millions of Americans lost their jobs, factories are closed down, yet something is raising the level. Allegedly, the Covid is slowing down .. Or this is all just another bull trap?

I am among those who believe the prices of watches will go down in the upcoming months, but this may as well prove to be nothing more than a good opportunity to buy certain professional models for a bit lower than usual. The stock market manipulation is staggering these days.

However, can we actually experience even greater (artificial) shortage of Rolex watches during the Autumn/Winter once the factory fully restart the production, or the middle class who should be the strongest buyer of Rolex watches will actually be the one most affected with the current chaos and the vast majority of buyers will be gone ..
The market is telling us this Rona thing will be over in a few months and is factoring that into current prices. Markets are always forward looking. As for Rolex prices, might want to think about buying pretty soon. Nothing worse than kicking yourself 6 months or a year from now after prices recover and we’re back to ingratiating with ADs.
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Old 7 April 2020, 12:54 AM   #659
dmash
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The market is telling us this Rona thing will be over in a few months and is factoring that into current prices. Markets are always forward looking. As for Rolex prices, might want to think about buying pretty soon. Nothing worse than kicking yourself 6 months or a year from now after prices recover and we’re back to ingratiating with ADs.
Ok
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Old 7 April 2020, 12:56 AM   #660
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The two words are practically synonymous but don’t worry about it. I just wanted to get back to you because you asked. I’ll be done with this thread since I’ve been called sanctimonious and a troll. You have a great evening as well.
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