The Rolex buying experience isn’t very good

[brucethemanlee]

Where were all the complainers 3-4 years who tried on a Sub at AD for size then either asked for a hefty discount. If they didn’t get it they went online to grey dealer and bought for 20% off

No one was was complaining then about the way things worked

It’s just because it is no longer in the buyer’s advantage that all these complaints about AD practices are coming out now

It was about supply and demand 4 years ago and ADs were getting the short end of the stick .... it’s about supply and demand now and the situation is reversed

Seems fair to me


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[kearez]

Originally Posted by huncho

people are too entitled, its the same reason people are hating on greys for selling above msrp when these same greys gave huge discounts for everything 4+ yrs ago

The truth, mentioned this before, when I joined the forum, it was screw ADs they don’t give you a big enough discount go grey.
Then switched go AD the greys are taking all the Daytona’s!!
Now it’s back to screw the AD with their games and bundling, and VIPs.

You know the VIPs are the grey dealers right? Which you pay a premium.

To OP lower chance in Dallas, but I’d head by two ADs maybe three. Just ask do you have a sub date, got cash in hand will buy now. You never know.

[Calatrava r]

Hopefully I am wrong but I think a first time buyer would have slim to none chance of buying a new Sub right now from an AD. Several reasons are contributing to and making the existing shortage much worse at the moment. The future supply this year is unknow given the factory closure so the overall allocation to dealers this year will be about 25 percent less, demand on the Sub is already very high because so few were delivered in the past 12 months, and there is speculation on the 2020 releases which will include a new Sub (which will be impossible to get) so buyers are seeking the current models in droves.

The good news is the after market premium is still very low on the Sub and SubDate, as new used. I would buy one used and never look back. When things sort out more those premiums could move up or even down, but they are reasonable now.

[ras47]

Originally Posted by brucethemanlee

Where were all the complainers 3-4 years who tried on a Sub at AD for size then either asked for a hefty discount. If they didn’t get it they went online to grey dealer and bought for 20% off

No one was was complaining then about the way things worked

It’s just because it is no longer in the buyer’s advantage that all these complaints about AD practices are coming out now

It was about supply and demand 4 years ago and ADs were getting the short end of the stick .... it’s about supply and demand now and the situation is reversed

Seems fair to me


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∆ This.

Buying is still just a Yes/No decision. Do you want a watch badly enough to pay the seemingly insane premium demanded by the gray market?

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by brucethemanlee

Where were all the complainers 3-4 years who tried on a Sub at AD for size then either asked for a hefty discount. If they didn’t get it they went online to grey dealer and bought for 20% off

No one was was complaining then about the way things worked

It’s just because it is no longer in the buyer’s advantage that all these complaints about AD practices are coming out now

It was about supply and demand 4 years ago and ADs were getting the short end of the stick .... it’s about supply and demand now and the situation is reversed

Seems fair to me


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Still here but complaining about PCLs

[Polarexplorerii]

Originally Posted by texascrane

I apologize up front for this mini-rant. I’m sure this topic isn’t new.

I’ll start off by saying that I’m not a big “watch guy”. I’ve owned a few watches over the years, and I’m familiar with a few of the nice watch brands, but I’ve never spent much time on watch forums, sites, blogs, etc.

About a month ago I decided I’d like to get a Submariner with date. I want to buy it from an authorized dealer. I almost bought one about 15 years ago and had no idea how much things have changed. Obviously the pandemic has complicated things, but I didn’t realize how difficult it seems to be to actually walk into a dealer, hand then $10k and walk out with a watch.

I’ve called several dealers (and gone into one) and get everything from we’ll put your name on a “list” with no idea of when they’ll have a watch for me, to “sorry, we don’t have any and our list is really long”. It doesn’t help that I live in Austin which isn’t exactly swimming in dealers. I’ve got to say that the lack of transparency is pretty frustrating. I get that they can’t sell me what they don’t have, but it feels like I should be able to give somebody a deposit and a rough expectation of when to come pick up my watch.

I admittedly don’t have a relationship with any jewelers. My wife doesn’t wear jewelry except for an inexpensive necklace I bought her 20 years ago and her wedding/engagement rings. I quit buying her anything else since she never wears it. I’m not sure how to convince a dealer that I’m not a flipper if for no other reason than it wouldn’t be worth my time.

It honestly feels like I’m trying to play a game where I don’t really understand all the rules. I’m not interested in the grey market because I don’t feel informed enough to ensure I’m buying an authentic watch. I guess this approach is working well for Rolex, but it sure is frustrating - which I can’t imagine is a word that any brand wants associated with their purchase experience. I wonder if there’s a point in time where this approach comes back to bite them.

If one of the dealers calls me back and tells me they have a watch for me, I’ll go buy it, but honestly I’m also sitting here thinking that $10k would pay for a really nice new mountain bike and trip this fall.

Don’t waste your time in S.A as i live here and yesterday i went to 3 ad’s looking for a sub date and only 1 ad told me they would put me on the "list”. The other 2 just brushed me off. There is a grey dealer here that has a lot of sub’s and 2 hulk’s and 2 batman’s and 3 daytona’s BUT of course at a premium, so not much better down here… I am in the same boat you are!

[enjoythemusic]

The OP makes a good point, and the same could be said if he wanted a $400,000 limited edition Ferrari. In this market no one would expect to walk into a dealer and get one, if the OP did a tiny bit of research.

OP, if you truly want a Sub there are many places online to get one. Same with a limited edition Ferrari... or the Ford sports car. It's how today's market works. You waited many years, so may as well find one online and enjoy. You're really missing out.

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

Originally Posted by kearez

The truth, mentioned this before, when I joined the forum, it was screw ADs they don’t give you a big enough discount go grey.
Then switched go AD the greys are taking all the Daytona’s!!
Now it’s back to screw the AD with their games and bundling, and VIPs.

You know the VIPs are the grey dealers right? Which you pay a premium.

To OP lower chance in Dallas, but I’d head by two ADs maybe three. Just ask do you have a sub date, got cash in hand will buy now. You never know.

Hahaha...

There are always disgruntled people

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

The OP makes a good point, and the same could be said if he wanted a $400,000 limited edition Ferrari. In this market no one would expect to walk into a dealer and get one, if the OP did a tiny bit of research.

OP, if you truly want a Sub there are many places online to get one. Same with a limited edition Ferrari... or the Ford sports car. It's how today's market works. You waited many years, so may as well find one online and enjoy. You're really missing out.

Imo ap is a far worse experience at their botiques.

[Posh Gentleman]

If you think getting a Rolex Sub is hard, try getting a Daytona at MSRP. Ain't gonna happen...

Rolex Sub's can be easily sourced from multiple sources, for a few hundred bucks over MSRP. Tons of jewelers have Sub's in stock. Honestly, I am not sure why the OP is complaining. Do some research, and buy the watch if you like it.

If you think getting Rolex Sub is hard at msrp, look into FP Journe or Richard Mille.

[jfp2476]

Originally Posted by horseShu

Think women and luxury handbags. Think Louis Vuitton, Chanel, Hermes. Have you ever gone shopping with your wife/sister/daughter and gone inside those posh boutique stores? The snobbishness, exclusivity, all that.

Women and their handbags. What a funny thing, right.

Now, change women to men. And handbags to Rolex.

As a female who has been buying luxury handbags for a very long time, I can confidently say that the parallel you made between the ongoing situation at Rolex and the companies you mentioned above doesn't hold. I will grant that you do have to deal with elitist and sometimes difficult sales associates at some of these brands, but that's it.

This isn't a handbag forum, so I'll spare you the details, but it's completely different with respect to how you are able to acquire luxury bags, and what's happening on the secondary market. Hermès is the closest parallel, but even that one doesn't hold when you actually understand how it works.

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[Posh Gentleman]

Originally Posted by brucethemanlee

Where were all the complainers 3-4 years who tried on a Sub at AD for size then either asked for a hefty discount. If they didn’t get it they went online to grey dealer and bought for 20% off

No one was was complaining then about the way things worked

It’s just because it is no longer in the buyer’s advantage that all these complaints about AD practices are coming out now

It was about supply and demand 4 years ago and ADs were getting the short end of the stick .... it’s about supply and demand now and the situation is reversed

Seems fair to me


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Roles Sub pricing hasn't moved all that much. After all, it is a mass produced entry level watch.

Patek nautilus on the other hand - this one is selling for 30-40K above MSRP, when it could be had for msrp easily 4-5 years ago. Now, this is insanity. lol

[barters]

At the AP boutique I felt I was being interviewed about my worthiness to buy the watch.


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[Posh Gentleman]

Originally Posted by barters

At the AP boutique I felt I was being interviewed about my worthiness to buy the watch.


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just stick with Rolex then. problem solved :)

I'd argue Rolex Daytona / GMT combo is more beautiful / practical / versatile than any model from AP.

For AP money, I'd rather buy Rolex Daytona PM. but that's just me.

[MrMercedes]

go grey!!! Where is the problem? You want the Sub! So go and get it!

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by texascrane

Fair point. I have 2 dealers locally, one of which is currently closed and I’m not sure when they plan to open up. If I knew that somebody actually had something they could sell me, I’d happily drive to Dallas/Houston/San Antonio, but I’m not going to make a trip just to put in some “face time” at a dealer.

I am going to be up in Dallas at the end of July so maybe I can go to a dealer or two then.

There are some fantastic sellers here on the forum that can source you a Sub for a small premium. Your best bet is to buy from one of these sellers, or just go with a mountain bike and forget the watch. You are likely not going to find an AD anywhere in your state to sell you a SS Sub. There are hundreds if not thousands of other folks like you in line for the same watch. How bad do you want the watch? Only you can decide. You really don't sound like you want to put in much effort to buy a Sub, which will ultimately net you nothing. My 2c

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

Originally Posted by Posh Gentleman

Roles Sub pricing hasn't moved all that much. After all, it is a mass produced entry level watch.

Patek nautilus on the other hand - this one is selling for 30-40K above MSRP, when it could be had for msrp easily 4-5 years ago. Now, this is insanity. lol

Haha a premium above The price of a rose gold gmt master rootbeer or a stainless steel AP RO

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

Originally Posted by barters

At the AP boutique I felt I was being interviewed about my worthiness to buy the watch.


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Why not?
If you shop for dateJust, they won’t question/ interview you anything

However, if it’s a product which had way more demand than supply (like the nautilus with the same demand exceeding supply situation), patek has been doing it for decades.

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

Originally Posted by Posh Gentleman

just stick with Rolex then. problem solved :)

I'd argue Rolex Daytona / GMT combo is more beautiful / practical / versatile than any model from AP.

For AP money, I'd rather buy Rolex Daytona PM. but that's just me.

That’s perfectly logical. A full precious metal Rolex is more value for money than stainless steel Ap (one costing less than a thousand per ton and the other costing couple thousands per ounce/ 31 grams)

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

Originally Posted by MrMercedes

go grey!!! Where is the problem? You want the Sub! So go and get it!

Yes. The so called premium for sub is so marginal in the bigger scheme of things

[mr ling]

Think how rough it is for buyers that don't want to go grey, and live in a small town with the nearest AD being an hour and a half drive.

Now, if you're content on buying a Rolex from an AD, you will need to go and spend enough on stuff you may not want in order to get in an SA's good graces to actually call you and give you first rights on inventory when they get it. Otherwise you will need to poke your head into shops on the off chance an AD has what you want in a display case, or is willing to pull it from the 'back.' I would assume at some point in the hopefully near future that the former will ring true, and once again we'll see a decent surplus of sport models in display cases.. but probably more so wishful thinking.

[barters]

Originally Posted by Johnpierpontmorgan

Why not?
If you shop for dateJust, they won’t question/ interview you anything

However, if it’s a product which had way more demand than supply (like the nautilus with the same demand exceeding supply situation), patek has been doing it for decades.

Why? What are they trying to ascertain? I figured it was to figure out
1. Has he the liquidity.
2. Is he a flipper.
3. Is he the sort of person we want to be seen with this watch.


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by shawn13ca

...and right now Grand Seiko made more money with me than Rolex.

I see this as a good thing. The 'shortage' gives one time to explore other brands. In just the past couple of years have added TAG, Cartier, OMEGA, and Panerai.

Originally Posted by Etschell

Imo ap is a far worse experience at their botiques.

Sad to hear, yet want to visit AP at some point in the next year-ish. The JLC dealer in Vegas was wonderful if you're ever in the area.

[Fleetlord]

I truly understand the OP frustration but the state of current market uncovers some harsh realities.

The issue here is the OP is painted into a corner in terms of acquiring the watch.

It seems that his main focus is a SS "Submariner". Lot's of other people want SS "Submariners' too, so combine this demand with limited distribution of that reference through the AD channel, it now becomes a competition..

The nasty reality of this is that from the AD perspective, the OP is not a customer they really want. A one and done buyer, who is looking for a lower margin item, who has not shown and WILL NOT show a future in terms of buying more...and higher margin goods...will get shut out. It's just that simple. The dealers need "Submariners" to feed their continuing sales cycle and not "waste" giving one away to a customer who hasn't shown loyalty and odds on, never will.

I have been involved in situations like these with other high demand, short supply consumer goods...you CANNOT waste your supply on dead ends. You "might" lose a "future" customer...but if they haven't shown interest in other items you sell in the past, odds are they won't in the future and you have to take those odds...that's the way it goes from the sales channel perspective.

From Rolex point of view? All good. Demand and sales are at record levels, even during a global pandemic and subsequent economic fallout.

[Deroya]

sharing the same frustrations right now looking for a pepsi. First time brand new buyer here also.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by Deroya

sharing the same frustrations right now looking for a pepsi. First time brand new buyer here also.

Not gonna happen, you’ll need to go grey for that as a newbie

[texascrane]

Originally Posted by nGage7962

OP has not posted past original post. Everyone else is deaf.

Well that’s not true.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by texascrane

Well that’s not true.

Go trusted seller, grey market or go home. You will not get a SS Sub from an AD, that is the unfortunate fact. I can give you plenty of references for a seller here that is trustworthy.

[texascrane]

Originally Posted by ArtNouveau

A few months back I dropped in to the Domain Ben Bridge just to browse. I was wearing my BLRO and by chance it was the manager (sorry can’t remember his name) who greeted me. He was very friendly and we talked about the current Rolex situation, and I tried on a couple of other brand pieces they had in the case. About to leave I posed the question “are you seeking new customers?” and he said of course we are. I’d go talk to him.

Thanks Ben Bridge At the Domain is actually closed right now and I’m not sure when they’ll reopen. I went over to Korman in person and it was very clear to me that they were trying to feel out if I was a flipper. Fair enough but it’s still a really odd conversation.

[RoscoPico]

I'd have to agree with op. On the face of it, you would think that 10k can get you a nice watch, or at least an explanation as to why not.
But like anything else, a little research is often prudent, and in this case can offer the back story of the ups/downs of prices/demand and the resultant current situation.