The Rolex buying experience isn’t very good

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by RoscoPico

I'd have to agree with op. On the face of it, you would think that 10k can get you a nice watch, or at least an explanation as to why not.
But like anything else, a little research is often prudent, and in this case can offer the back story of the ups/downs of prices/demand and the resultant current situation.

For 10K he can get one likely BNIB from one of the sellers here on the forum. And not have to play the AD game BS. He will have the watch on his wrist next day after bank wire. If he insists on a watch from an AD at MSRP, he may be waiting a loooong time. Question is: how soon do you want it. Now or years later?

[matPORTS]

Reading through the many posts on this forum, as well as research all over the web, the AD experience will differ from person-to-person and in each city or country.

This is the nature of the market today. SS Rolex is easily obtainable as long as you're willing to pay the grey premium and not expecting the Rolex AD Experience (which isn't very much of an experience now anyway).

Sometimes it takes building some sort of relationship with an AD over a period of time and/or with a certain dollar spend to get priority on the hot models (I'm more inclined to believe that 'official waiting lists' have never actually existed - and that you are automatically on the 'committed to memory waiting list' due to the relationship).

Other times you might pop in, throw down some money on a non-Rolex or some other jewelry, have a chat about about the hobby and your desire to acquire SS Rolex, and then a No Date Sub, Pepsi or Batgirl just magically appears out of the safe. Your desire (and endless reading of threads like this one) gets the better of you and you walk out of the AD with two watches that day (even if it means a bit of credit card debt).

Or you go to an AD in a big city, airport or popular tourist destination and an Explorer I, Air King or Milgauss just so happens to be in the display cabinet ready for you to splash your 'money is no object' holiday or overseas business trip funds on.

I mentioned in my 'introductory post' that I was looking to buy a Speedmaster FOIS, and was hoping to bundle this together with an SS Rolex. Unfortunately, I have no AD relationship and there is only one AD where I live (Sydney, Aus) that deals in both Rolex & Omega. I have yet to go and visit them in person, but when I asked the question over the phone recently about SS Rolex I was told "we've closed our waiting lists and have no line of sight to when we'll receive more stock". Hearing this, and having knowledge of the situation, doesn't want to make me drive into town specifically to want to go and see them. However, I will drop in if I have another reason to be in that part of town over the next couple of weeks.

Basically, $AUD retail for both the Speedmaster and say a Hulk or Pepsi you'd be looking at about $21000-$22000. On the face of it, you'd like to think that having this much money to spend right now, the AD would be bending over backwards before jumping through hoops for you. But there is no chance that a Hulk or Pepsi is going to magically appear out of the safe just because you've offered to buy a Speedy, and nor is it likely going to get you one within a short space of wait time. Also, unless that Hulk or Pepsi is magically appearing out of the safe right now (definitely talking fiction, fairy tales and fantasy now), there is no way I'm paying full retail for the Speedy (even if the fantasy were to come true it is almost madness to do that anyway).

So, got to weigh up the questions:

Do I go in and haggle for a discount on the Speedy in the hope that they might one day call me saying they have an SS Rolex in stock that I desire and ask if I'd like to buy it? I also acknowledge that buying just a Speedy from the AD might not still be enough to put me in line for an SS Rolex.

Do I go completely grey on the Speedy/SS Rolex two piece combo. On initial research might mean another AUD$2000-3000 above retail looking at current grey prices for a Hulk or Pepsi. You've got to put some value on your time as well.

Or do I focus on finding the best possible grey deal for a Panda Daytona (which probably fits better in my collection as it stands right now - but these pieces are going for an absolute premium at grey)?

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by barters

Why? What are they trying to ascertain? I figured it was to figure out
1. Has he the liquidity.
2. Is he a flipper.
3. Is he the sort of person we want to be seen with this watch.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just got to say, point three made me chuckle. This is exactly why people judge people who own Rolex.

I can only hope I'm worthy to wear my 1603...

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

If you want rolex to eliminate the grey dealers, they would have to permit AD to sell pieces at free market prices

I’m pretty sure pepsi would not cost 10k, but 15k. this is fairest but would you want a higher market determined “MSRP”.

We can call the current market like price controls, where demand surpass supply so much that a “black market”, ie; the grey dealer thrives. Surely if AD is allowed to have a free market pricing, No one is able to get pepsi at current MSRP

[Yachtbuoy]

Someone must be buying these pieces at MSRP or near it, the grey dealers are t getting new stock from thin air!

[RakerSnaker]

Originally Posted by Yachtbuoy

Someone must be buying these pieces at MSRP or near it, the grey dealers are t getting new stock from thin air!

Exactly! These are not rare watches. There are thousands of them for sale on multiple websites. Where are they coming from?

To OP: It would be rare, though not impossible, to obtain this watch from an AD with no purchase history. You would need to visit many ADs and hope for a bit of luck. However, in my experience even a modest purchase history makes this far more attainable.

[Vanmarsenille]

Originally Posted by barters

Rolex has lost control of their market. It’s a mess & shame on them for letting it happen.

You should be sold their watch via an AD & have a great experience.

If they want to limit the number of pieces in circulation to maintain exclusivity then fine. Stick up the price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Give this man a cigar.

[ToyotaMoe]

Originally Posted by Maxy

Don't see any point in such posts. Okay, so you have $10K cash in hand, so you should be given out of stock item? It is not an item your life depends, it's still a luxury item and they always produce little less quantity than demand to keep the brand alive. If all ADs are selling out all watches all the time, why should Rolex get the blame just coz you didn't get one. It could be attributed to any luxury product, nothing unique with Rolex. Someone just woke after 15 years and think world is still same as it was decades back is just not reasonable. It's more than often such posts are from new users who are away from Rolex or any such hard to get luxury product.

Well said. Couldn’t agree with you more

[Dougiebaby]

Originally Posted by texascrane

I apologize up front for this mini-rant. I’m sure this topic isn’t new.

I’ll start off by saying that I’m not a big “watch guy”. I’ve owned a few watches over the years, and I’m familiar with a few of the nice watch brands, but I’ve never spent much time on watch forums, sites, blogs, etc.

About a month ago I decided I’d like to get a Submariner with date. I want to buy it from an authorized dealer. I almost bought one about 15 years ago and had no idea how much things have changed. Obviously the pandemic has complicated things, but I didn’t realize how difficult it seems to be to actually walk into a dealer, hand then $10k and walk out with a watch.

I’ve called several dealers (and gone into one) and get everything from we’ll put your name on a “list” with no idea of when they’ll have a watch for me, to “sorry, we don’t have any and our list is really long”. It doesn’t help that I live in Austin which isn’t exactly swimming in dealers. I’ve got to say that the lack of transparency is pretty frustrating. I get that they can’t sell me what they don’t have, but it feels like I should be able to give somebody a deposit and a rough expectation of when to come pick up my watch.

I admittedly don’t have a relationship with any jewelers. My wife doesn’t wear jewelry except for an inexpensive necklace I bought her 20 years ago and her wedding/engagement rings. I quit buying her anything else since she never wears it. I’m not sure how to convince a dealer that I’m not a flipper if for no other reason than it wouldn’t be worth my time.

It honestly feels like I’m trying to play a game where I don’t really understand all the rules. I’m not interested in the grey market because I don’t feel informed enough to ensure I’m buying an authentic watch. I guess this approach is working well for Rolex, but it sure is frustrating - which I can’t imagine is a word that any brand wants associated with their purchase experience. I wonder if there’s a point in time where this approach comes back to bite them.

If one of the dealers calls me back and tells me they have a watch for me, I’ll go buy it, but honestly I’m also sitting here thinking that $10k would pay for a really nice new mountain bike and trip this fall.

Well, you just jumped into the deep end and you don't know how to swim. The "pool" is VERY DIFFERENT from 15 years ago (heck, it's very different from 5 years ago).

Like anything in life, you need to learn the rules of the game ... to win. I hate to say it, but you are not going to get a lot of compassion around here (or any Rolex watch forum) because we all know the game and your a newbie. I am not saying this to be insulting or a jerk, but you are going to find it very difficult to walk into any AD and be seriously considered if you do not have a relationship with that AD.

A Rolex steel sport (Sub, GMT, Daytona, etc.) is a "prize" for those who have developed a relationship with that AD. Why? The AD knows that giving you the pleasure to pay full retail price for that Rolex SS is like giving you a pile of free cash (possibly worth a few grand).

If you were giving a pile of cash out ... would you give it to someone you know and have a relationship with or a stranger?

Either begin to develop that relationship with your AD or else you will probably have to go grey to get your Sub. Good luck in either path you decide to take and stick around, you will learn a lot from a great group of enthusiasts here. :)

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

For a highly sought after product with limited supply.

As any businesses will do (ADs), they will give it to a VIP regular customer rather than a complete stranger who will only do business one and done.

this is normal. if u operate a business, you would also do that.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Johnpierpontmorgan

For a highly sought after product with limited supply.

As any businesses will do (ADs), they will give it to a VIP regular customer rather than a complete stranger who will only do business one and done.

this is normal. if u operate a business, you would also do that.

It’s completely true..

Sometimes I get the feeling people are appalled that the AD is not tripping over themselves to sell a $10k watch to an unknown customer....

The reality is the AD sees it as a low margin waste of limited product, which when deployed to loyal customers, will reap much more profitability...

That’s right, AD are in business to make money...and since withholding SS Sports stock for key customers makes them more money,then that’s what they will do.

[JebM]

This is just the way things are at the moment. If you don't want to wait you can shop around at the reputable grey dealers (just a little time researching them will make it very clear there are some you can buy from without any worry)... the markup isn't that bad on a sub.

[Tavli3]

Situation dire for newbies for sure. I'm very fortunate to have gotten an Hulk and a BLNR from my AD in the past year. I already have a Coke so Pepsi is not on my list for now.
I like to color coordinate watch with my clothes so I need a white dial and a blue dial which leads me down the path of a Sky Dweller Blue and White Daytona both super difficult to get even with a good relationship.

So for me the Rolex watch buying experience has become boring since there is nothing in the cases to look at so why go to the AD unless you need something else and you can't order anything either.
The Blue DJ with Sticks and Fluted bezel is growing on me so might have to go with that.
But for white I would only consider the Daytona.

After a while I think I might have to look at other brands to keep the buying experience alive. Anyone else getting bored with nothing to look at and nothing to buy Rolex thing??
Still can't get over the fact that the Mayors store in our local mall got chopped in half! Well at least their show cases will look full!

Maybe other people are getting bored with looking at the same watches for past 3 years and not being able to buy anything different?

[Johnpierpontmorgan]

pointless thread. please dont open these lame topics

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Johnpierpontmorgan

pointless thread. please dont open these lame topics

Agreed. OP just wanted to sell his rant more than buy a watch. Wah, wah, wah

[bezler]

Originally Posted by texascrane

I apologize up front for this mini-rant. I’m sure this topic isn’t new.

I’ll start off by saying that I’m not a big “watch guy”. I’ve owned a few watches over the years, and I’m familiar with a few of the nice watch brands, but I’ve never spent much time on watch forums, sites, blogs, etc.

About a month ago I decided I’d like to get a Submariner with date. I want to buy it from an authorized dealer. I almost bought one about 15 years ago and had no idea how much things have changed. Obviously the pandemic has complicated things, but I didn’t realize how difficult it seems to be to actually walk into a dealer, hand then $10k and walk out with a watch.

I’ve called several dealers (and gone into one) and get everything from we’ll put your name on a “list” with no idea of when they’ll have a watch for me, to “sorry, we don’t have any and our list is really long”. It doesn’t help that I live in Austin which isn’t exactly swimming in dealers. I’ve got to say that the lack of transparency is pretty frustrating. I get that they can’t sell me what they don’t have, but it feels like I should be able to give somebody a deposit and a rough expectation of when to come pick up my watch.

I admittedly don’t have a relationship with any jewelers. My wife doesn’t wear jewelry except for an inexpensive necklace I bought her 20 years ago and her wedding/engagement rings. I quit buying her anything else since she never wears it. I’m not sure how to convince a dealer that I’m not a flipper if for no other reason than it wouldn’t be worth my time.

It honestly feels like I’m trying to play a game where I don’t really understand all the rules. I’m not interested in the grey market because I don’t feel informed enough to ensure I’m buying an authentic watch. I guess this approach is working well for Rolex, but it sure is frustrating - which I can’t imagine is a word that any brand wants associated with their purchase experience. I wonder if there’s a point in time where this approach comes back to bite them.

If one of the dealers calls me back and tells me they have a watch for me, I’ll go buy it, but honestly I’m also sitting here thinking that $10k would pay for a really nice new mountain bike and trip this fall.

The watch is in high demand, and the market price is above MSRP. The ADs are getting the watches, but they're selling to high value customers, and also to gray dealers out the backdoor. In this environment, they're not very interested in their standard retail markup.

[DG123]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

Agreed. OP just wanted to sell his rant more than buy a watch. Wah, wah, wah

The daily rants are always the same. That is a guy upset because he can't easily buy from an AD for MSRP a particular watch model that sells aftermarket for higher than MSRP.

[TellingTime]

Over the years I’ve only had great experiences with my all of my purchases from various AD’s. As of late, the model I want is still quite elusive, but will wait patiently.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by DG123

The daily rants are always the same. That is a guy upset because he can't easily buy from an AD for MSRP a particular watch model that sells aftermarket for higher than MSRP.

A basic new 116610LN does not sell for that much of a premium from the sellers here. If the OP can't pony up an extra $ thousand, he really shouldn't be in the luxury watch hobby or market. Go buy a G-Shock

[DG123]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

A basic new 116610LN does not sell for that much of a premium from the sellers here. If the OP can't pony up an extra $ thousand, he really shouldn't be in the luxury watch hobby or market. Go buy a G-Shock

I think you've misunderstood my point. That is, the complainers want to walk out of an AD shop knowing they've paid MSRP (for a watch that sells aftermarket for more than MSRP).
So, for the complainers, buying grey and, or, paying above MSRP is not an option they want to consider. Understand that the appeal of the watch is to buy new for below aftermarket pricing.

[japenney]

Sorry I didn't read 4 pages after your initial post. But any of the trusted sellers on here who have their own sales section can get you a brand new sub date just as it would come from the AD for only slightly more than MSRP. You do not have to be worried about authenticity. These guys are solid. I recommend davidsw or takuya.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by DG123

I think you've misunderstood my point. That is, the complainers want to walk out of an AD shop knowing they've paid MSRP (for a watch that sells aftermarket for more than MSRP).
So, for the complainers, buying grey and, or, paying above MSRP is not an option they want to consider. Understand that the appeal of the watch is to buy new for below aftermarket pricing.

Perfectly understood. But I am 99.9% sure the OP will not get the Sub at an AD for MSRP. He has an apathetic attitude, so it sounds like he really just wants the forum to hear his rants. Same as every other newb here.

[aloysius]

All - as a maybe counterpoint (or just another example more accurately) to some of the posts here - I had a recent pleasant AD experience for an Explorer/214270. With no preexisting relationship (1st time Rolex AD buyer), I hit paydirt and got the watch only a couple days after getting on one of the ADs "lists" (whatever that actually means). But I live in a major metro with I think >10 Rolex ADs that I would drive to (and was on the list for most of them). Also, I would imagine the 214270 is a far less popular watch vs. a Sub.

Which leads me to a general question - how long do folks educated on the market believe this Rolex sport watch SS "shortage" will last for . Rolex has either stumbled upon or iterated and settled on a pricing and inventory strategy that really feels like it's working for them. If I'm a decision maker at the Rolex company - outside of maybe ticking up Ss sports watch inventory a touch to meet some more demand - unless I'm missing something (and surely I might be!) - I keep this strategy rolling. Interesting point that the population that would buy Rolex might collectively get so fed up with lack of inventory, they just move on to another brand and ultimately the strategy backfires.... but somehow, given how well Rolex has positioned the brand... I don't see that ever happening

[Hollie_Rollie]

Hasn’t really been the best for the past 3-4 years. A lot of other cool brands out there doing better work imo...

[White Collar Boy]

It is what it is. Go grey if you want it faster.

The more recent criticism of the OP is ungenerous.

[Phat4]

Originally Posted by DG123

The daily rants are always the same. That is a guy upset because he can't easily buy from an AD for MSRP a particular watch model that sells aftermarket for higher than MSRP.

Look at you knocking those who can’t get a sports model - maybe cos everyone’s got one or plainly cos he’s always wanted one. I would say that rant is a reasonable expression of their frustration because, yes they can’t get a watch because of the behind the scenes antics ....and they are antics!! The greed with traders in phenomenal and without an end. When they buy of a regular they want to steal it and when they’re selling they want top money. That’s greed mate in any sane persons book.

But if someone wants a Rolex sports badly enough, they have to do the do but it doesn’t excuse the greedy who are, as I speak, ruining things for the majority. With vintage, and that’s a whole story on its own, the original dials are so mucked around with to get patina - using coffee, tea, patina paint, stick on lumes and voila, the SWISS T<25 original dial is done for and it’s so wide-spread, it’s getting near on impossible to find an un-molested vintage. Put a premium on a cappucino dial and Wanna pass it off as patina? Get serious and stop taking buyers for mugs. You know who you are. I digressed.

I’ve been fortunate enough to get a few from AD because a) it was a new franchise and b) some dudes weren’t available when Rolex called them so I got the calls. That was chance otherwise it would have been a good few more months before I got what I wanted.

When dealers who are liquid quietly sort out the agent at AD, that watch that the AD mysteriously didnt have somehow goes out the back door (tho not always but it happens). Stuff goes on and yes, it’s money and profit for the AD and sheer greed with traders. You shouldn’t slate a Rolex fan who can’t get what he wants, end of!

[DG123]

Originally Posted by aloysius

All - as a maybe counterpoint (or just another example more accurately) to some of the posts here - I had a recent pleasant AD experience for an Explorer/214270. With no preexisting relationship (1st time Rolex AD buyer), I hit paydirt and got the watch only a couple days after getting on one of the ADs "lists" (whatever that actually means). But I live in a major metro with I think >10 Rolex ADs that I would drive to (and was on the list for most of them). Also, I would imagine the 214270 is a far less popular watch vs. a Sub.

Which leads me to a general question - how long do folks educated on the market believe this Rolex sport watch SS "shortage" will last for . Rolex has either stumbled upon or iterated and settled on a pricing and inventory strategy that really feels like it's working for them. If I'm a decision maker at the Rolex company - outside of maybe ticking up Ss sports watch inventory a touch to meet some more demand - unless I'm missing something (and surely I might be!) - I keep this strategy rolling. Interesting point that the population that would buy Rolex might collectively get so fed up with lack of inventory, they just move on to another brand and ultimately the strategy backfires.... but somehow, given how well Rolex has positioned the brand... I don't see that ever happening

Your experience of getting an Explorer within a few days of shopping at AD's
is not unusual. I think for 98%of Rolex product line model availability is not any sort of lengthy, time consuming issue.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Phat4

Look at you knocking those who can’t get a sports model - maybe cos everyone’s got one or plainly cos he’s always wanted one. I would say that rant is a reasonable expression of their frustration because, yes they can’t get a watch because of the behind the scenes antics ....and they are antics!! The greed with traders in phenomenal and without an end. When they buy of a regular they want to steal it and when they’re selling they want top money. That’s greed mate in any sane persons book.

But if someone wants a Rolex sports badly enough, they have to do the do but it doesn’t excuse the greedy who are, as I speak, ruining things for the majority. With vintage, and that’s a whole story on its own, the original dials are so mucked around with to get patina - using coffee, tea, patina paint, stick on lumes and voila, the SWISS T<25 original dial is done for and it’s so wide-spread, it’s getting near on impossible to find an un-molested vintage. Put a premium on a cappucino dial and Wanna pass it off as patina? Get serious and stop taking buyers for mugs. You know who you are. I digressed.

I’ve been fortunate enough to get a few from AD because a) it was a new franchise and b) some dudes weren’t available when Rolex called them so I got the calls. That was chance otherwise it would have been a good few more months before I got what I wanted.

When dealers who are liquid quietly sort out the agent at AD, that watch that the AD mysteriously didnt have somehow goes out the back door (tho not always but it happens). Stuff goes on and yes, it’s money and profit for the AD and sheer greed with traders. You shouldn’t slate a Rolex fan who can’t get what he wants, end of!

Just because he has 10K burning a hole through his pocket doesn't mean he "deserves" a watch, Rolex fan or not. The entitlement of some crybabies who join this forum just to complain they can't buy a new 116610LN from a dealer for MSRP is just pitiful to say the least. Wah, wah, wah, cry me a river!! The game is what it is. Either play or go home and cry to Mommy that the big bad Rolex AD won't sell you a Submariner at MSRP. Life is sooo unfair

[TellingTime]

Originally Posted by aloysius

All - as a maybe counterpoint (or just another example more accurately) to some of the posts here - I had a recent pleasant AD experience for an Explorer/214270. With no preexisting relationship (1st time Rolex AD buyer), I hit paydirt and got the watch only a couple days after getting on one of the ADs "lists" (whatever that actually means). But I live in a major metro with I think >10 Rolex ADs that I would drive to (and was on the list for most of them). Also, I would imagine the 214270 is a far less popular watch vs. a Sub.

Which leads me to a general question - how long do folks educated on the market believe this Rolex sport watch SS "shortage" will last for . Rolex has either stumbled upon or iterated and settled on a pricing and inventory strategy that really feels like it's working for them. If I'm a decision maker at the Rolex company - outside of maybe ticking up Ss sports watch inventory a touch to meet some more demand - unless I'm missing something (and surely I might be!) - I keep this strategy rolling. Interesting point that the population that would buy Rolex might collectively get so fed up with lack of inventory, they just move on to another brand and ultimately the strategy backfires.... but somehow, given how well Rolex has positioned the brand... I don't see that ever happening

I think you are making some very valid points here. The SS shortage could very well be long lasting, and I feel that Rolex being a master of marketing....well tweak everything as needed to keep the golden goose laying!

[White Collar Boy]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

Just because he has 10K burning a hole through his pocket doesn't mean he "deserves" a watch, Rolex fan or not. The entitlement of some crybabies who join this forum just to complain they can't buy a new 116610LN from a dealer for MSRP is just pitiful to say the least. Wah, wah, wah, cry me a river!! The game is what it is. Either play or go home and cry to Mommy that the big bad Rolex AD won't sell you a Submariner at MSRP. Life is sooo unfair

That’s an unfair characterisation of the OP’s frustration. I understand your own frustration at the repetitiveness of these complaints, but name calling and berating others doesn’t look good, or proportionate. Really just looks like someone laying into someone else to feel good.