32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by eijiboy

This video is probably one of the few issues of 32 movement. Poor lubrication. Notice the train wheels not spinning freely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNoK92cBAqQ

If you look closely, they were able to disassemble the barrel where rolex said that it cannot be disassemble due to very thin barrel walls

Thanks for sharing
One that didn't make it to the full 10 year service interval?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by amanbra

doubt it... my DD looks like it's going to be a problem movement =(

Of course, you do realise you're looking like a common denominator if that turns out to be the case
Multiple watches with multiple issues and all

Seriously, your collection is always going to be testament to watches that aren't born with incurable defects as far as the operator is concerned

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Thanks for sharing
One that didn't make it to the full 10 year service interval?

I think the DD 3255 came out in 2015, IIRC.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

I think the DD 3255 came out in 2015, IIRC.

From memory, i think you are correct as it was the first.
A very lovely watch in the video

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

I think the DD 3255 came out in 2015, IIRC.

Correct, see post #2515

2015: 3235 (Datejust Pearlmaster 39)
2015: 3255 (Day-Date 40)

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

- They will never acknowledge any 32xx problems.

Originally Posted by amanbra

you have to believe they use fifo for their movements. Not make heaps of movements put them in a pile and use which ever movement they please at the time.k

I do not think Rolex operate on a FIFO (First In First Out) basis for all movements and parts.

I do think they probably follow the basic premise of doing that but the sheer scale of production of movements and parts would complicate this enormously especially as the parts are spread across the world.

We are let to believe that Rolex produce approximately 1,000,000 watches a year.

That’s approximately 4000 per day on a 251 day working year (Canton of Geneva figures) of finished movements.

They must have a minimum of 6 months finished movements in stock that’s 500,000 movements.

Add to that a years supply of all parts that would make a stockpile of 1.5 million watches worth.

But, Thats the Rolex CH stocks. Then the rest of the world’s service centres probably have around 500,000 watches full parts so there would be now 2 Million finished movements and combination of parts to make movements.

The numbers start to get scary !

Rolex are hardly likely to “Scrap” the old movements or parts or even update finished faulty movements as only a minute probably 0.1% of 1 percent of owners will ever notice the problem we have been discussing.

That equates to around 100 people per year out of 1 million.

Rolex will not care about 100 people or watches They will just be thankful they got away with it !

As a consequence of this the above “Silent Repair” strategy is VERY likely.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I do not think Rolex operate on a FIFO (First In First Out) basis for all movements and parts.

I do think they probably follow the basic premise of doing that but the sheer scale of production of movements and parts would complicate this enormously especially as the parts are spread across the world.

We are let to believe that Rolex produce approximately 1,000,000 watches a year.

That’s approximately 4000 per day on a 251 day working year (Canton of Geneva figures) of finished movements.

They must have a minimum of 6 months finished movements in stock that’s 500,000 movements.

Add to that a years supply of all parts that would make a stockpile of 1.5 million watches worth.

But, Thats the Rolex CH stocks. Then the rest of the world’s service centres probably have around 500,000 watches full parts so there would be now 2 Million finished movements and combination of parts to make movements.

The numbers start to get scary !

Rolex are hardly likely to “Scrap” the old movements or parts or even update finished faulty movements as only a minute probably 0.1% of 1 percent of owners will ever notice the problem we have been discussing.

That equates to around 100 people per year out of 1 million.

Rolex will not care about 100 people or watches They will just be thankful they got away with it !

As a consequence of this the above “Silent Repair” strategy is VERY likely.

Some logic to the enormous numbers but it has been since 2015 and we’re still noticing problems. Also it appears that literally no watchmaker has reported back a change in procedure so one has to assume service and lube is the “fix” still being prescribed to RSC.

Based on how busy AUS RSC is who no longer accept non-warranty jobs the issue is way more than 100 per year. That 0.1% of 1% of owners noticing is not close in my opinion. I’d say 5% at least would notice their Rolex is strangely slow after a week of wear. Now not all post in a forum about it but they do take it back to their AD or RSC.

The key determinant on how much trust we can have in Rolex or how much integrity they have is if they honour fixes for this after the 5 year warranty runs out.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by amanbra

The key determinant on how much trust we can have in Rolex or how much integrity they have is if they honour fixes for this after the 5 year warranty runs out.

I beleive it is highly UNLIKELY thar Rolex will repair the said 32xx problem after the warranty period runs out for free.

My reasoning ..... Rolex will never admit the problem even exists ... It will be a "Silent Repair" and will be done during a warranty service or done during a chargeable one.

The watch owner will never know it has been done.

Rolex, It's service centres and AD's are all businesses ... They re not accustomed to doing things for free.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Some logic to the enormous numbers but it has been since 2015 and we’re still noticing problems. Also it appears that literally no watchmaker has reported back a change in procedure so one has to assume service and lube is the “fix” still being prescribed to RSC.

Based on how busy AUS RSC is who no longer accept non-warranty jobs the issue is way more than 100 per year. That 0.1% of 1% of owners noticing is not close in my opinion. I’d say 5% at least would notice their Rolex is strangely slow after a week of wear. Now not all post in a forum about it but they do take it back to their AD or RSC.

The key determinant on how much trust we can have in Rolex or how much integrity they have is if they honour fixes for this after the 5 year warranty runs out.

Yes and no re: since 2015. That's when the first 32xx were sold, but there's a lag on this.

Furthermore, as far as numbers of people noticing, there's one other thing I hadn't thought about before: the numbers of people who keep their watches running full-time by either wear or winder. If you're rotating weekly, for example, it'll be quite a while before you notice any slowdown if you aren't tracking with a device since you'll constantly be resetting the time anyhow.

All of that also creates a lag in Rolex accumulating enough data to know whether the issue is isolated to a few, is a design flaw, or is perhaps tied to certain assembly lines/parts runs/watchmakers/etc. That is to say, I don't think it's a "let's cross our fingers that nobody notices" situation, but one where it takes a while to figure out the real issue, its origins, and how extensive it is.

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I beleive it is highly UNLIKELY thar Rolex will repair the said 32xx problem after the warranty period runs out for free.

My reasoning ..... Rolex will never admit the problem even exists ... It will be a "Silent Repair" and will be done during a warranty service or done during a chargeable one.

The watch owner will never know it has been done.

Rolex, It's service centres and AD's are all businesses ... They re not accustomed to doing things for free.

Question is how many people will notice within five years (even if the issue starts during year one). If most will notice, then really that whole thing takes care of itself. Eventually, it'll become like the 3186 fix, where the parts are swapped out at service, regardless of specific wear patterns. At that point, it's a matter of how to handle watches that come in after five years, where this is the singular problem. We're only just now reaching that point on the most common models...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Question is how many people will notice within five years (even if the issue starts during year one).

Not more than a few thousand watches IMHO.
Maybe 0.1 % of approx. 1'000'000 (*) watches per year = 1000 watches per year

... as Charles nicely calculated in post 2556 ... only missing a factor of 10

(*) not all Rolex movements are caliber 32xx

[waterman1]

My sd43 is in NY now for second time in 2 years for this same issue. It was a few weeks past the 5 yr warranty period. Rolex denies knowing of any problem that we speak about here w this movement. They claim I knocked the watch on something to cause this. They have no explanation as to why this is the 2nd time for this issue on this watch and also two times on my DSSD. All same exact issue. But at end of day are repairing for free “this time”.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by waterman1

My sd43 is in NY now for second time in 2 years for this same issue. It was a few weeks past the 5 yr warranty period. Rolex denies knowing of any problem that we speak about here w this movement. They claim I knocked the watch on something to cause this. They have no explanation as to why this is the 2nd time for this issue on this watch and also two times on my DSSD. All same exact issue. But at end of day are repairing for free “this time”.

Sorry to hear, 2 watches and the 4th repair already. Your SD43 is from 5/2017 Mk1 and your DSSD is how old?

Either the RSC in NY has been living under a rock for years or .... read #2545.

Do you have any SD43 movement data such as timekeeping, rates, amplitudes?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by waterman1

My sd43 is in NY now for second time in 2 years for this same issue. It was a few weeks past the 5 yr warranty period. Rolex denies knowing of any problem that we speak about here w this movement. They claim I knocked the watch on something to cause this. They have no explanation as to why this is the 2nd time for this issue on this watch and also two times on my DSSD. All same exact issue. But at end of day are repairing for free “this time”.

Thanks for sharing
So very gracious of them.
The old, "you must have knocked it on something trick".
The classic response being repeated all over the world now that warranties are expiring, so it's only a matter of time before the consumers wise up through conditioning, that they need to pamper their Rolex watches more and or wear them less so they can't say it's a result of lifestyle factors which is their little discussed caveat around the 10 year service interval.
Maybe it's time for Rolex owners with 32xx movements to invest in a timegrapher to provide periodical data sets to Rolex with each dodgy watch in order to refute their nebulous claim "you must have knocked it on something", by being able to demonstrate a noticeable decline in functionality

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Maybe it's time for Rolex owners with 32xx movements to invest in a timegrapher to provide periodical data sets to Rolex with each dodgy watch in order to refute their nebulous claim "you must have knocked it on something" by being able to demonstrate a noticeable decline in functionality

Dirt, again you agree with me?

The use of a timegrapher is what I am recommending since a long time! Also the best check of any caliber performance before/after repair or regulation work.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Dirt, again you agree with me?

The use of a timegrapher is what I am recommending since a long time! Also the best check of any caliber performance before/after repair or regulation work.

I just knew you were going to say that when I clicked on submit
My only defence is that only a fool is totally resistant to changing their mind
Any recommendations for machinery(make and model) going forward?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dirt

I just knew you were going to say that when I clicked on submit

Originally Posted by Dirt

My only defence is that only a fool is totally resistant to changing their mind

Originally Posted by Dirt

Any recommendations for machinery(make and model) going forward?

For example the rather cheap Chinese Timegrapher Weishi No. 1900 (not Witschi, CH) will do it for a start.

Alternatives I had posted earlier in this thread:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=212

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by waterman1

My sd43 is in NY now for second time in 2 years for this same issue. It was a few weeks past the 5 yr warranty period. Rolex denies knowing of any problem that we speak about here w this movement. They claim I knocked the watch on something to cause this. They have no explanation as to why this is the 2nd time for this issue on this watch and also two times on my DSSD. All same exact issue. But at end of day are repairing for free “this time”.

Hmm this behaviour would make this charitable foundation rather deceitful.

Glad that they are doing it for free for you but this is going to be unpleasant for the average consumer.


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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Thanks for sharing
So very gracious of them.
The old, "you must have knocked it on something trick".
The classic response being repeated all over the world now that warranties are expiring, so it's only a matter of time before the consumers wise up through conditioning, that they need to pamper their Rolex watches more and or wear them less so they can't say it's a result of lifestyle factors which is their little discussed caveat around the 10 year service interval.
Maybe it's time for Rolex owners with 32xx movements to invest in a timegrapher to provide periodical data sets to Rolex with each dodgy watch in order to refute their nebulous claim "you must have knocked it on something", by being able to demonstrate a noticeable decline in functionality

Do you know what the facial expression of a RSC worker looks like if you say to them these are my timegrapher results? My mate tried once. They give you the “oh please that’s cute look” and say their watchmakers will look at it thanks.

Thankfully this issue is for a watch and unlike Porsche unlikely to result in a class action but they are being a not behaving with much integrity here.

These estimates of 0.1% are not remotely correct and as the years go on there cumulative effect is really going to build up.

Timegrapher shouldn’t have to be part of a watch owners experiences. For the 32xx issue the key issue is it slows down. The timegrapher just helps confirm amplitude.

Should every car owner own a car scanner tool? They shouldn’t have to right?


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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Yes and no re: since 2015. That's when the first 32xx were sold, but there's a lag on this.

Furthermore, as far as numbers of people noticing, there's one other thing I hadn't thought about before: the numbers of people who keep their watches running full-time by either wear or winder. If you're rotating weekly, for example, it'll be quite a while before you notice any slowdown if you aren't tracking with a device since you'll constantly be resetting the time anyhow.

All of that also creates a lag in Rolex accumulating enough data to know whether the issue is isolated to a few, is a design flaw, or is perhaps tied to certain assembly lines/parts runs/watchmakers/etc. That is to say, I don't think it's a "let's cross our fingers that nobody notices" situation, but one where it takes a while to figure out the real issue, its origins, and how extensive it is.



Question is how many people will notice within five years (even if the issue starts during year one). If most will notice, then really that whole thing takes care of itself. Eventually, it'll become like the 3186 fix, where the parts are swapped out at service, regardless of specific wear patterns. At that point, it's a matter of how to handle watches that come in after five years, where this is the singular problem. We're only just now reaching that point on the most common models...

Completely agree with the lag. Once mentioned this also. A lot of watches are going in safes and not even worn and many people rotate watches and wear only sparingly. However many, more than 0.1%, wear the watch and will notice the timing issue.

Now with the cumulative effect of all these watches in circulation. More and more people will notice.

Makes really important to make sure you check these things before the warranty runs out. Starting to feel like cheap electronic goods :/.


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[amanbra]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I beleive it is highly UNLIKELY thar Rolex will repair the said 32xx problem after the warranty period runs out for free.

My reasoning ..... Rolex will never admit the problem even exists ... It will be a "Silent Repair" and will be done during a warranty service or done during a chargeable one.

The watch owner will never know it has been done.

Rolex, It's service centres and AD's are all businesses ... They re not accustomed to doing things for free.

Any high integrity company will fix know issues for free past warranty cover.

It’s very sad if this is how Rolex will do it but appears NYC RSC are literally doing this per the recent example.

For me I don’t like companies or charitable foundations for that matter the behave with such low integrity.

Maybe I’ll join the dark side and just use 32xx movement watches for pocket money purposes and buy more watches that actually run properly.


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[Dirt]

Originally Posted by saxo3

For example the rather cheap Chinese Timegrapher Weishi No. 1900 (not Witschi, CH) will do it for a start.

Alternatives I had posted earlier in this thread:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=212

Thanks
Now I recall you mentioning something about this previously. For the record and I'd hate to sound racist(despite having some Chinese blood in my veins), but Chinese stuff is off the approval list for a number of very sound reasons.

I totally forgot to mention i have a Co-axial in the collection, so I need to make sure that whatever I am looking at can record the goings on with the innards correctly
I understand Co-axials operate in a world of their own.

[matthew P]

Explorer 124270. - purchased Nov 2021

Worn 24/7 , 50% of the time….. ie I have 2 watches that are consistently worn/ kept running. The 72hour power reserve on both watches allows me to go a full day or two ( two and a half sometimes ).
Explorer was losing time on wrist ( half second a day) and 2 to 3 seconds per day when left in box face up.

I wanted to get a better resting position so it took it to my AD and got the numbers






I’m not sure if it was fully wound / or suitably rested when this reading occurred. The technician was out so my Sales guy did the reading.

I wasn’t getting great results from my resting position self adjustments so I went to another watch maker and got another read out.




This reading was taken with the watch right off my wrist ….. probably close to full wind
Either way it was now clear to me that if I rested my watch crown down it will speed it enough to remain pretty much spot on accuracy wise even with 48 hours off wrist.
I generally go up to two days before remembering/ desiring a watch swap when working so the 72 hour PR keeps the explorer running long enough with acceptable accuracy.
Since I started resting this way I haven’t had manually adjust time using the crown….. that was my goal when getting the timeographer Results.
I hope they add to this discussion, I’m enjoying reading through the previous posts….. these sort of posts are what I loved about the Rolex forums when I got involved 9 years ago.


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by matthew P

Explorer 124270.
Worn 24/7 , 50% of the time….. ie I have 2 watches that are consistently worn/ kept running. The 72hour power reserve on both watches allows me to go a full day or two ( two and a half sometimes ).
Explorer was losing time on wrist ( half second a day) and 2 to 3 seconds per day when left in box face up.

I wanted to get a better resting position so it took it to my AD and got the numbers






I’m not sure if it was fully wound / or suitably rested when this reading occurred. The technician was out so my Sales guy did the reading.

I wasn’t getting great results from my resting position self adjustments so I went to another watch maker and got another read out.




This reading was taken with the watch right off my wrist ….. probably close to full wind
Either way it was now clear to me that if I rested my watch crown down it will speed it enough to remain pretty much spot on accuracy wise even with 48 hours off wrist.
I generally go up to two days before remembering/ desiring a watch swap when working so the 72 hour PR keeps the explorer running long enough with acceptable accuracy.
Since I started resting this way I haven’t had manually adjust time using the crown….. that was my goal when getting the timeographer Results.
I hope they add to this discussion, I’m enjoying reading through the previous posts….. these sort of posts are what I loved about the Rolex forums when I got involved 9 years ago.


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….

What a healthy watch you have.

How old is this one if you mind us asking?


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[matthew P]

Originally Posted by amanbra

What a healthy watch you have.

How old is this one if you mind us asking?

sorry , I realized I forgot to add that info.

purchased from AD mid November 2021.

is there anyway to know production age?....
worn 50% of the time as a daily so a solid 7 moths of running time on wrist or in box.

And yes, in reading this thread I'm educating my self as to what all the numbers mean... it does seem like its performing well at the 6 month mark. I will continue to monitor with this thread as a bench mark.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by matthew P

sorry , I realized I forgot to add that info.

purchased from AD mid November 2021.

is there anyway to know production age?....
worn 50% of the time as a daily so a solid 7 moths of running time on wrist or in box.

And yes, in reading this thread I'm educating my self as to what all the numbers mean... it does seem like its performing well at the 6 month mark. I will continue to monitor with this thread as a bench mark.

Yeah lets all hope it stays that way and you enjoy the watch. It's all we really want right?

for me I'm finding I don't enjoy my 32xx watches as much as I'm concerned it's going to go bad and I keep measuring it... something I don't do for any of my other watches...

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by matthew P

Explorer 124270. - purchased Nov 2021

Worn 24/7 , 50% of the time….. ie I have 2 watches that are consistently worn/ kept running. The 72hour power reserve on both watches allows me to go a full day or two ( two and a half sometimes ).
Explorer was losing time on wrist ( half second a day) and 2 to 3 seconds per day when left in box face up.

I wanted to get a better resting position so it took it to my AD and got the numbers



I’m not sure if it was fully wound / or suitably rested when this reading occurred. The technician was out so my Sales guy did the reading.

I wasn’t getting great results from my resting position self adjustments so I went to another watch maker and got another read out.


This reading was taken with the watch right off my wrist ….. probably close to full wind
Either way it was now clear to me that if I rested my watch crown down it will speed it enough to remain pretty much spot on accuracy wise even with 48 hours off wrist.
I generally go up to two days before remembering/ desiring a watch swap when working so the 72 hour PR keeps the explorer running long enough with acceptable accuracy.
Since I started resting this way I haven’t had manually adjust time using the crown….. that was my goal when getting the timeographer Results.
I hope they add to this discussion, I’m enjoying reading through the previous posts….. these sort of posts are what I loved about the Rolex forums when I got involved 9 years ago.


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….

Nice. This'll will give us a nice comparison. If you've been swapping the watch back and forth with another, you've effectively had 3-4 months of wear on it, so it'll be interesting to see what happens over the next year.

p.s. interesting your last pic says Cal 3135, which has a different lift angle.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

p.s. interesting your last pic says Cal 3135, which has a different lift angle.

Yep saw that. Can’t tell though if that’s a free text field or linked to lift angle but regardless a very healthy movement.

If it was set at 52 then the amp is underreported.


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[matthew P]

Yes…. Probably about 4 months on wrist, running in the box three months…… it’s never stopped since I got it, it gets more than 50% of wrist time as it’s so comfortable.

I did notice the cal info….. wasn’t sure how it would effect interpretation.

I do know that the resting position accuracy adjustment is working well to self regulate


….Save the drama - I’m just here for the photos….

[saxo3]

My personal summary and conclusion (so far) of this thread:

If the silent repair strategy is applied, as described in previous posts (2541, 2545, 2556), then good and bad movements will be found in watches of each production year from 2015/2016 onwards ... and this will continue for newly produced watches from 2022/2023 onwards.

If this is their secret strategy, then buying a 32xx watch will remain a lottery for the next few years, either you pick a watch with a good or bad movement.

Since I have had a 100 % failure rate with 3 watches that all developed the issue(s), I have therefore decided not to buy any more Rolex watch with a 32xx movement.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

My personal summary and conclusion (so far) of this thread:

If the silent repair strategy is applied, as described in previous posts (2541, 2545, 2556), then good and bad movements will be found in watches of each production year from 2015/2016 onwards ... and this will continue for newly produced watches from 2022/2023 onwards.

If this is their secret strategy, then buying a 32xx watch will remain a lottery for the next few years, either you pick a watch with a good or bad movement.

Since I have had a 100 % failure rate with 3 watches that all developed the issue(s), I have therefore decided not to buy any more Rolex watch with a 32xx movement.

Seems a very plausible scenario based on the evidence we have.

My only reasoning that I feel that Rolex don't have a fix yet is based on none of the watchmakers we know reporting back "hey the new fix is change out this component" when currently they are told to service and lube the pivot but I accept this is not 100% proof of my theory either.