5070R or 5711/1A - if you had to sell one, which one you'd choose?

[Plopez]

5070 is on a different level. Limited production, pure Patek DNA. Forget the hype and sell the 5711 imo.

[comanndr]

I'd keep 5711 iconic
many desirable chronos if you want/ need again
don't think 5711 will be easy to get again for the retail you obtain her at
just my thoughts
good luck
or as I've commented before which one still sings to you

[Chaos]

It's then clearly not an easy decision, no strong trend even for you guys that are much more knowledgeable than this little newbie here

Thank you so much, again,

And keep coming those good opinions, they are all well thought

best

[SL BRABUS]

Keep 5070R.......

[sensui]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

5070 never did anything for me....so easy choice

Yeah......so it'd be an easy choice for me as well. Good luck with your decision OP.

[Murcielagoboy2]

I'd sell the 5711. They're not going to stop making it (in some form or another) ever. And at most, there are only 1000 5070R's out there.
Take the price hype out out of the equation and you're effectively comparing a sport-suited-calatrava with Pateks greatest ever chrono.


Sign of the times and the tastes on this board. For NOW. When the Nautilus hype subsides and easy profits disappear, things will revert to the mean.

My friend once rejected a Ferrari F40 as a straight swap for his then-new over-MSRP 360 Spider....

[yoast]

Keep both and rent a motorhome when you need it

[E16520kimm]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

I'd sell the 5711. They're not going to stop making it (in some form or another) ever. And at most, there are only 1000 5070R's out there.
Take the price hype out out of the equation and you're effectively comparing a sport-suited-calatrava with Pateks greatest ever chrono.


Sign of the times and the tastes on this board. For NOW. When the Nautilus hype subsides and easy profits disappear, things will revert to the mean.

My friend once rejected a Ferrari F40 as a straight swap for his then-new over-MSRP 360 Spider....

Well said. I couldn’t agree more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Erson]

sell 5711 now is a good time, because u get lots of profit, then upgrade to the gold nautilus 5712r or 5980r

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

I'd sell the 5711. They're not going to stop making it (in some form or another) ever. And at most, there are only 1000 5070R's out there.
Take the price hype out out of the equation and you're effectively comparing a sport-suited-calatrava with Pateks greatest ever chrono.


Sign of the times and the tastes on this board. For NOW. When the Nautilus hype subsides and easy profits disappear, things will revert to the mean.

My friend once rejected a Ferrari F40 as a straight swap for his then-new over-MSRP 360 Spider....

(jk you're entitled to your opinion of course )

[shoe-bop]

Originally Posted by mps354

The 5070 is my favorite reference, so I’d get rid of the 5711

This.

[Bearxj86]

I think you get roughly the same cash from selling either. Which one would you prefer to wear daily? If you won't - sell both.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I think you get roughly the same cash from selling either. Which one would you prefer to wear daily? If you won't - sell both.

I believe this is correct.

Folks are needlessly confusing what should be a purely financial judgement by injecting personal preference for one reference vs the other.

OP states that he loves both, therefore not worth debating steel entry level vs precious metal complication as a matter of preference. To each his own.

If there's more equity in the 5711 then that's the one to sell. It's already more than doubled in value from MSRP. While the 5070 has held its own, there's no where near that level of ROI.

Predicting what each will do in the future is a fool's errand second only to taking advice from forum strangers. Yes, mine included.

[unknown]

so the instagram crowd found this site ?

How can a real watchlover sell a 5070 and keep that overhyped 5711

I have both but comparing these 2 is insane

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by GB-man

(jk you're entitled to your opinion of course )

Ok ok!
I meant “pure chrono” (of the modern era)! Haha!



But anyway I have both too. They are not in the same universe of appeal.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

Ok ok!
I meant “pure chrono” (of the modern era)!

Let’s say one of. We are a tough crowd.

[Josh1000]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

Ok ok!
I meant “pure chrono” (of the modern era)! Haha!



But anyway I have both too. They are not in the same universe of appeal.

Why is the 5070 so iconic and not emperors clothing driven by the same hype as the nautilus?? I see a chrono (useless function) in an oversized case with an undersized movement that has resulted in the sub dials sitting ungainly like bug eyes on the dial...not to mention it's not even an in house movement which no matter how wonderfully finished is not the same....but then I dint get the hype of the 5711A either A 5712 is now the same price as a brand new Voutilainen Vingt 8....how can that even be possible...but beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[AK797]

Originally Posted by unknown

so the instagram crowd found this site ?

How can a real watchlover sell a 5070 and keep that overhyped 5711

I have both but comparing these 2 is insane

I don't think that is happening, this YG is polarising, if it were the Plat or a PCC the results would be very different, indeed we had a poll on a Naut chrono v PCC and the Naut got trashed.

[Fat_ninja]

I’m not sure there is a right answer...there are different generations of collectors here. Some are old, some are less old, some want to be old.


I like both watches. I prefer the 11 of these 2, But I don’t love all nautilus.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by unknown

so the instagram crowd found this site ?

How can a real watchlover sell a 5070 and keep that overhyped 5711

I have both but comparing these 2 is insane

Well yes the IG crowd has infiltrated TRF but that's another story. In general many look at the 5070 objectively and see many issues.

If the 5170 had preceded the 5070 people would be wondering what happened on the redesign.

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by Josh1000

Why is the 5070 so iconic and not emperors clothing driven by the same hype as the nautilus?? I see a chrono (useless function) in an oversized case with an undersized movement that has resulted in the sub dials sitting ungainly like bug eyes on the dial...not to mention it's not even an in house movement which no matter how wonderfully finished is not the same....but then I dint get the hype of the 5711A either A 5712 is now the same price as a brand new Voutilainen Vingt 8....how can that even be possible...but beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Objectively your comments are right. Inarguable to an extent.
And I thought largely the same but then I got up close to a 5070.

But there is SOMETHING, almost indefinable, about the 5070 that makes it incredibly special. Patek finished this watch in such a way as to epitomise their craft and history in one model. That case is incredibly difficult to make. The dials of all of them have a depth which only the 5170p has followed up with. The finish of the Lemania is Jewel-like. The clear flaws of it somehow cancel each other out to make one of THE great pure Chronos of all time - a watch with real charisma.
It weird but it’s fact - as borne out by values today.
Perhaps it’s spiritual successor is the 5370p but it’s a totally different price point.

And when you look at a 5170, it’s lovely too, but you can somehow see that Patek just didn’t pour that much love into it. The P gets close I suppose but PP somehow missed out that collectors need exclusivity and overproduced like crazy and that’s was another miss at this level.


Back to original question, the 5711 is NOWHERE by comparison. It has NONE of the pop, charisma, finish, and it’s a much more basic utility watch. My God it’s a 3 hand steel cased sports watch - Pateks cheapest almost. It’s NOTHING.

The 5070 is on another planet, another universe.


Oh and before anyone takes offence, I have all three - 5070, 5170, and 5711/1a. That said I paid only £18k for my 5711 (RRP), maybe I’d feel it was “incredible” had I paid £50k but then I’m not on instagram either......

[psv]

I'd keep the 5711. Easily.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Well yes the IG crowd has infiltrated TRF but that's another story. In general many look at the 5070 objectively and see many issues.

If the 5170 had preceded the 5070 people would be wondering what happened on the redesign.

How long did it take before the 5070 became hot?

[rockdrock]

I know it sounds so trendy but keep that beautiful 5711.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

How long did it take before the 5070 became hot?

Honestly the only one that’s hot in the market is the 5070P and that’s because so few were made. Something like 150 or so. I’m sure Bruno knows.

You have to consider the 5070 was priced within reason and then Patek took the piss and tried to raise the 5170 up to nearly 90k upon release. Few wanted it for that money but they already invested in the new movement so they made a bunch.

[ufboy73]

if you haven't been wearing either one of them sell them both, seriously!

these two watches are not at all similar, other than they happen to both be Pateks.

In the absence of any other considerations (i.e. how one may fit with the rest of your collection, what aspects of each you like and don't like, what you otherwise want to prioritize in whichever one you keep, etc.) it's a completely impossible question to answer - at least without defaulting to an implied market value/demand prioritization (which is what you see in responses).

[unknown]

Originally Posted by AK797

I don't think that is happening, this YG is polarising, if it were the Plat or a PCC the results would be very different, indeed we had a poll on a Naut chrono v PCC and the Naut got trashed.

and I think if I would post the same question on watchprosite.com the Nautilus would make no chance. You just can't compare these 2

Don't get me wrong, I like this forum and I'm here sincee 15 years or so but it's mainly a ROLEX / SPORTSWATCH forum while the Patek forum on watchprosite is .... sorry to say, a lot better

Again, I have both and other Patek but a 5711 and 5070 just can't be compared. In fact, I'll make the poll on watchprosite and let's see the results



https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-p...46.11344936/0/


BTW, I would rater sell my 5711P than the 5070R !!

[unknown]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Honestly the only one that’s hot in the market is the 5070P and that’s because so few were made. Something like 150 or so. I’m sure Bruno knows.

You have to consider the 5070 was priced within reason and then Patek took the piss and tried to raise the 5170 up to nearly 90k upon release. Few wanted it for that money but they already invested in the new movement so they made a bunch.

I'm afraid nobody knows :-)
Most guess between 100 and 200 ... so 150 will probably be close but we don't know, Patek never told.

The other were 'hot' since 2002. First they made the 5070J between 1998 and 2002, this reference was never sought after. In 2002 they made the 5070G and this was a hit right from the start, always a waiting list en price new and second hand were about the same at the beginning.
Later ... the secondhand value was more than list.
In 2004 they also made the R and just like the G it was very difficult to get. G was discontinued in 2006 while the R was made until 2009.

In a Patek magazine Mr Stern said they were able to make more or less 250 per year.
So every reference was made about 4 years so about 1000 per piece were made in each color
(In 2004-2006 the G and R were in production so I think they did not make 250 per color in these 2 years.
Their capacity must be split over the 2 different cases.

The 5070P was announced in 2008 to celebrate the 10th anniversary of that reference. First were delivered half 2008 but at Basel , only 6-8 months later it was discontinued and replaced with the 5170

So I don't think it was 1 year in production but more like 8 months or so.
AND, more important ... At the same time they still had the 5970P and 5004 in production.
Now, we know they had to stop using that Lemania mouvement cause they were almost out of stock and Swatch Group didn't want to deliver them anymore.
So Patek had the choice ... using that movement for the 5070P, 5970P and those 100 5004/a they made.

Since the 5070P was only 57K euro , the 5970P I believe 110K euro and the 5004a more like 200+ .... it's obvious to conclude Patek wanted to make less of their cheaper watch and more 5970 and 5004
The margin on these is bigger for Patek.

So it's acceptable to conclude Patek never made a lot 5070P :-)


You're correct the 5170 was very expansive when they launched it. but there is more. Look at the 5170 and 5070.
Yes, the 5170 might be technically more advanced, be more precise, have more modern patents and water you want. But then look at the finishing details. I can tell you one thing... For Patek its much more easy to make a 5170 than a 5070. The beveling and is nicer. Or look at the sharp inward angles. This is among the most difficult things to create on a movement cause it's 100% handwork, can't be done with a machine.
Well you'll find a few in the 5070 and .... ZERO in the 5170

And those that claim an in-house is more interesting than a seriously modified Lemania ... I guess you do not appreciate a 1518 ? Or the legendary 2499?
Cause these all had non in-house movements.
Inhouse is so overrated nowadays

[RussW]

Originally Posted by unknown

and I think if I would post the same question on watchprosite.com the Nautilus would make no chance. You just can't compare these 2

Don't get me wrong, I like this forum and I'm here sincee 15 years or so but it's mainly a ROLEX / SPORTSWATCH forum while the Patek forum on watchprosite is .... sorry to say, a lot better

Again, I have both and other Patek but a 5711 and 5070 just can't be compared. In fact, I'll make the poll on watchprosite and let's see the results



https://www.watchprosite.com/patek-p...46.11344936/0/


BTW, I would rater sell my 5711P than the 5070R !!

Hey Bruno, just playing devil’s advocate, but I think doing a poll on watchprosite proves nothing. They are a very well informed group, and on technical matters can not be faulted. But it’s a very niche group, so you could say their’s is the minority opinion. What does the market make of the desirability (which is different of course to which watch is horologically more superior) of these watches? Well, on Patekonomics IG, a 5070R sold for $50K a few days ago.

Of course the 5711 is overhyped, but there’s more to it than that. Even Aurel Bacs described his 5711 as nearly the perfect watch. Maybe the design of the 5711 is so good (some people view Gerald Genta as a genius!) that it overcomes the fact it is just a simple watch.

[unknown]

Originally Posted by RussW

Hey Bruno, just playing devil’s advocate, but I think doing a poll on watchprosite proves nothing. They are a very well informed group, and on technical matters can not be faulted. But it’s a very niche group, so you could say their’s is the minority opinion. What does the market make of the desirability (which is different of course to which watch is horologically more superior) of these watches? Well, on Patekonomics IG, a 5070R sold for $50K a few days ago.

Of course the 5711 is overhyped, but there’s more to it than that. Even Aurel Bacs described his 5711 as nearly the perfect watch. Maybe the design of the 5711 is so good (some people view Gerald Genta as a genius!) that it overcomes the fact it is just a simple watch.

I appreciate your thoughts Russ ! And you have a point that watchprosite is more niche. But than again, isn't patek niche ?

The popularity of th e 5711 is something that started only a couple of years ago and I dare to say social media started it. Now when did Instagram really start growing ? 5 years ago ? coincidence it's about the same as the nautilus hype started ?

I think it's a first step to get to learn Patek. Those new watch enthusiast are just discovering haute Horlogerie . Just like a lot of us probably started long ago with a steel submariner or GMT. Only years later you widen your knowledge and start looking at other brands and complications.
Now once again , nothin wrong with a 5711, love mine too but a 5070 is really something different.
There is a reason why AT LIST the one costs less than 40% to the other.

Aurel bacs has an opinion just like many others. I think a reverso, a speedmaster a Tank and many others have an even perfect design, its just a matter of taste.

Don't know what happened at that auction and don't know it the watch was complete and in what condition it was but I feel confident to say a 5070 R or G sells for 60 tot 65 K EURO if its complete and good condition.