5711 crosses the $50K mark

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

Not the point I was making. I said nothing about MSRP. My point was the 5711 pricing is insane and you can get so much more watch (meaning precious metal and complication) for less price. People paying these prices for a simple steel three hander need their heads examined

steel is PM for Patek. Its the more exclusive metal

[iceman1118]

I agree in 2017/2018. But down the road I would bet the “overlooked” complicated precious metal pieces see some sort of resurgence. The market for SS sport watches is what is hot right now, but we all know trends change. I definitely could be wrong, but there is no doubt this is a seller’s market.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

I agree in 2017/2018. But down the road I would bet the “overlooked” complicated precious metal pieces see some sort of resurgence. The market for SS sport watches is what is hot right now, but we all know trends change. I definitely could be wrong, but there is no doubt this is a seller’s market.

But the online world is taking over, and that demographic is younger and more casual, so the trend for sports watches is probably long term, and I think recognised even by TS with the orange Aqua. His will to slow down the PP takeover of the SS Nautilus of two years ago, has probably been destroyed in the last year.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by iceman1118

I agree in 2017/2018. But down the road I would bet the “overlooked” complicated precious metal pieces see some sort of resurgence. The market for SS sport watches is what is hot right now, but we all know trends change. I definitely could be wrong, but there is no doubt this is a seller’s market.

i think there have been some great non sports offerings recently. 5170P, 5905P, 5320G and even the 6006G. I also tried on the 5930G yesterday for the first time and that one is awesome. These appeal to me a lot and im probably at the younger end of the Patek age demographic so thats a good sign for the complications and dress pieces going forward.

I agree that they are not mass market like a sports watch though.

[iceman1118]

TS definitely did the right thing business wise with the new Nautilus PC. No doubt will be super exlusive and a homerun for them.

Im also on the younger end of the PP spectrum (32) and I agree their newer offerings with complications are great. Personally I wear both my PPs (5205r and 5712r) casually with jeans and dressed up with suits. I hope this catches on with the younger crowd because even my wife thinks these pieces look great casually and dressed up.

[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i think there have been some great non sports offerings recently. 5170P, 5905P, 5320G and even the 6006G. I also tried on the 5930G yesterday for the first time and that one is awesome. These appeal to me a lot and im probably at the younger end of the Patek age demographic so thats a good sign for the complications and dress pieces going forward.

I agree that they are not mass market like a sports watch though.

I can't speak for younger watch enthusiasts, but at a minimum they are more informed than the older crowd in terms of what's available, and what it hot. Seems like the steel Genta 3-handers caught fire pretty quickly, especially when the 15202st started ticking up too. However, the fire can die quickly with this group. It really only seems to take a small group of influential people to dangle a different shiny object that nobody else has, and the will of the mass follows suit.

I won't be surprised if something else becomes the "it" object once enough people get bored with having Nautili in every shape, metal, and complication combination. Wish I could see into the future so I could stock up.

[lapince]

Makes you wonder how long can this last, I mean I was very happy to get mine for around 25k from my AD, but 40-50k????? No way, for me there are much cooler watches at that price range, not sure what keeps the demand so high at actual grey prices, social media, getting something impossible to get, but let’s face it, real watch geeks like us would probably never pay anything North of 40k, more 35 in my case, for a 5711, at those prices you have serious competition. Hell I wouldn’t even pay more than 45k for a 5712, and this is my favorite SS watch.
Anyways feel very blessed to have gotten mine at AD price, and feel sorry for watch lovers who really want one, but don’t have prior relationship with an AD, which basically means it will be impossible from the AD, except if you buy ither less in demand pieces, or pay the insanely high grey prices...

[tng11]

Originally Posted by lapince

Makes you wonder how long can this last, I mean I was very happy to get mine for around 25k from my AD, but 40-50k????? No way, for me there are much cooler watches at that price range, not sure what keeps the demand so high at actual grey prices, social media, getting something impossible to get, but let’s face it, real watch geeks like us would probably never pay anything North of 40k, more 35 in my case, for a 5711, at those prices you have serious competition. Hell I wouldn’t even pay more than 45k for a 5712, and this is my favorite SS watch.
Anyways feel very blessed to have gotten mine at AD price, and feel sorry for watch lovers who really want one, but don’t have prior relationship with an AD, which basically means it will be impossible from the AD, except if you buy ither less in demand pieces, or pay the insanely high grey prices...

I'm glad you feel sorry for me Arnaud.

After driving myself nuts for over 6 months trying to get a 5712/1A, losing sleep and pulling my hair out, I've come to accept that if the AD never calls then I'll still be at peace and in good health, enjoying what I have. Life's too short to get miserable or worked up about being not being able to obtain a watch.

Even at MSRP, let alone grey prices these days I'm having second thoughts - it's not that far away from a pre-owned Datograph anymore, which is in a totally different league.

[sensui]

Originally Posted by tng11

I'm glad you feel sorry for me Arnaud.

After driving myself nuts for over 6 months trying to get a 5712/1A, losing sleep and pulling my hair out, I've come to accept that if the AD never calls then I'll still be at peace and in good health, enjoying what I have. Life's too short to get miserable or worked up about being not being able to obtain a watch.

Even at MSRP, let alone grey prices these days I'm having second thoughts - it's not that far away from a pre-owned Datograph anymore, which is in a totally different league.

Exactly. Better options in this price range even within Patek..ask yourself do you actually love the Nautilus that much....personally I like it and would like to add at msrp from dealer but like you don't care if they never call...I think Rolex got them beat on stainless sport and I'd prefer to buy Patek complications in precious metal...that to me is the heart and soul of Patek.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

For $50K there alot of choice and 5711 is not one of them.....

Agreed

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

steel is PM for Patek. Its the more exclusive metal

This is an interesting point.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tng11

I'm glad you feel sorry for me Arnaud.

After driving myself nuts for over 6 months trying to get a 5712/1A, losing sleep and pulling my hair out, I've come to accept that if the AD never calls then I'll still be at peace and in good health, enjoying what I have. Life's too short to get miserable or worked up about being not being able to obtain a watch.

Even at MSRP, let alone grey prices these days I'm having second thoughts - it's not that far away from a pre-owned Datograph anymore, which is in a totally different league.

It's a nice piece for sure but the 64 is better, just look at Tyler's group pic.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AK797

It's a nice piece for sure but the 64 is better, just look at Tyler's group pic.

yeah, i would pick the 64 over the 12. Love both but the 64 is that good.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yeah, i would pick the 64 over the 12. Love both but the 64 is that good.

You're not the first dual 5164/5712 owner I've heard this from. I still want to try the 12 out, but it really is a lot of money for what it is compared to the 64!

[Kaapu]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

I can't speak for younger watch enthusiasts, but at a minimum they are more informed than the older crowd in terms of what's available, and what it hot. Seems like the steel Genta 3-handers caught fire pretty quickly, especially when the 15202st started ticking up too. However, the fire can die quickly with this group. It really only seems to take a small group of influential people to dangle a different shiny object that nobody else has, and the will of the mass follows suit.

I won't be surprised if something else becomes the "it" object once enough people get bored with having Nautili in every shape, metal, and complication combination. Wish I could see into the future so I could stock up.

Good point. After all this segment we are talking about here is small. It does not necessarily require a lot of effort to manipulate it. And because its small, it can move quickly to the other side as well

[kingofthehill]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yeah, i would pick the 64 over the 12. Love both but the 64 is that good.

Why? Please elaborate...

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by kingofthehill

Why? Please elaborate...

until i got the 5990 the 64 was for sure the one watch i would keep if i could only have one watch. Its versatile, practical, comfortable, and i can pretty much wear it anywhere. The 12 is more of an occasion piece. Now that i have the 5990 i honestly dont know which i would keep in a one watch collection.

Nothing is wrong with the 5712, its just not as universal.

[Wesley Crusher]

Supply & demand.

The grays are able to offer us "common" watches at a discount (even when the ADs won't budge) and we love them for it.

They also offer hard to find watches, but at a premium, and we hate them for it.

In the case of the 5711, the watch is offered at a STEEP premium. Do I think 50k for a 5711 is totally insane? Absolutely, but if somebody is willing to pay the price then that means the price is justified. Something is worth only as much as somebody is willing to pay for it.

While I understand the economics behind all of this, it still frustrates me.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

until i got the 5990 the 64 was for sure the one watch i would keep if i could only have one watch. Its versatile, practical, comfortable, and i can pretty much wear it anywhere. The 12 is more of an occasion piece. Now that i have the 5990 i honestly dont know which i would keep in a one watch collection.

Nothing is wrong with the 5712, its just not as universal.

So far I can't imagine a more well rounded watch than the 5164. Looks perfectly at home in a full suit and tie in the boardroom and the beach in shorts and flip flops. Yes, the 5712 is more elegant, but I don't see myself wearing at the beach like I would the 5164. The 15202 is more my occasion piece these days - I could see a 5712 getting worn in the same pattern.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by tng11

So far I can't imagine a more well rounded watch than the 5164. Looks perfectly at home in a full suit and tie in the boardroom and the beach in shorts and flip flops. Yes, the 5712 is more elegant, but I don't see myself wearing at the beach like I would the 5164. The 15202 is more my occasion piece these days - I could see a 5712 getting worn in the same pattern.

yep. i see a lot of similarities with the 15202 and the 5172 and the blue 5711 as far as being occasion pieces. The white 11 is not like the others.

[Silver Bullet]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

yep. i see a lot of similarities with the 15202 and the 5172 and the blue 5711 as far as being occasion pieces. The white 11 is not like the others.

What difference do you perceive with the white 5711? Can you elaborate on that?

[kingofthehill]

Thank you for the above feedback, Tyler.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by tng11

I'm glad you feel sorry for me Arnaud.

After driving myself nuts for over 6 months trying to get a 5712/1A, losing sleep and pulling my hair out, I've come to accept that if the AD never calls then I'll still be at peace and in good health, enjoying what I have. Life's too short to get miserable or worked up about being not being able to obtain a watch.

Even at MSRP, let alone grey prices these days I'm having second thoughts - it's not that far away from a pre-owned Datograph anymore, which is in a totally different league.

Hope you’ll get the call, but like you say no need to lose sleep over it.
A Datograph is horologically in another league, amazing movement, one of the best chronos ever made, I wanted one at one point, until I tried one on, sits very high on the wrist, I really didn’t like how it looked on me, love the 5712 comfort and ultra thin look, but yes the Dato is more interesting than the 5712 if you look at the horological achievement

Originally Posted by AK797

It's a nice piece for sure but the 64 is better, just look at Tyler's group pic.

Well never had the 64 but handled quite a few, and while I would think the 64R is more interesting than the 5712, not the A, IMO, but the 5712 is my favorite SS watch, so pretty biased here

Originally Posted by tng11

You're not the first dual 5164/5712 owner I've heard this from. I still want to try the 12 out, but it really is a lot of money for what it is compared to the 64!

Not really, the 64 has dual time, but on rubber strap, 12 is all SS, moon phase, PR, for me they are at the same level, oh of course I am talking pre price raise, if the 12 is now 4-5k more than the 64, not sure what prices are for the 64, then yes the 12 might be a little overpriced.

Originally Posted by tyler1980

until i got the 5990 the 64 was for sure the one watch i would keep if i could only have one watch. Its versatile, practical, comfortable, and i can pretty much wear it anywhere. The 12 is more of an occasion piece. Now that i have the 5990 i honestly dont know which i would keep in a one watch collection.

Nothing is wrong with the 5712, its just not as universal.

Funny I wear my 12 for any occasion, the only times I don’t wear it is at the pool or beach, not to scratch it, other than that and I wear it without hesitation, whatever I will be doing

[AK797]

Originally Posted by lapince

Hope you’ll get the call, but like you say no need to lose sleep over it.
A Datograph is horologically in another league, amazing movement, one of the best chronos ever made, I wanted one at one point, until I tried one on, sits very high on the wrist, I really didn’t like how it looked on me, love the 5712 comfort and ultra thin look, but yes the Dato is more interesting than the 5712 if you look at the horological achievement



Well never had the 64 but handled quite a few, and while I would think the 64R is more interesting than the 5712, not the A, IMO, but the 5712 is my favorite SS watch, so pretty biased here



Not really, the 64 has dual time, but on rubber strap, 12 is all SS, moon phase, PR, for me they are at the same level, oh of course I am talking pre price raise, if the 12 is now 4-5k more than the 64, not sure what prices are for the 64, then yes the 12 might be a little overpriced.



Funny I wear my 12 for any occasion, the only times I don’t wear it is at the pool or beach, not to scratch it, other than that and I wear it without hesitation, whatever I will be doing

Glad to see the old Arnaud back defending the 5712, which is actually my second fave SS watch , I was worried Kari might have changed you.

[walds11]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Supply & demand.

The grays are able to offer us "common" watches at a discount (even when the ADs won't budge) and we love them for it.

They also offer hard to find watches, but at a premium, and we hate them for it.

In the case of the 5711, the watch is offered at a STEEP premium. Do I think 50k for a 5711 is totally insane? Absolutely, but if somebody is willing to pay the price then that means the price is justified. Something is worth only as much as somebody is willing to pay for it.

While I understand the economics behind all of this, it still frustrates me.

Right on

It frustrates me to no end. I’m a small player with these ADs and will never get one at list price.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by lapince

Not really, the 64 has dual time, but on rubber strap, 12 is all SS, moon phase, PR, for me they are at the same level, oh of course I am talking pre price raise, if the 12 is now 4-5k more than the 64, not sure what prices are for the 64, then yes the 12 might be a little overpriced.

Yes Arnaud, I was talking about it in the current market situation, which is $34K MSRP for the 5164 and $40K MSRP for the 5712.

I bought my 5164 LNIB back in December and saved almost 20% off MSRP, while the 5712 was going for a $10K premium to list at the old MSRP, or in other words, close to $18K in difference between the two. At the current MSRP difference of $6K, it's a bit easier to justify, but still I struggle with the value aspect on some days.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Silver Bullet

What difference do you perceive with the white 5711? Can you elaborate on that?

i just think the white makes it very sporty. The blue is more dressy. I probably wouldn't wear the blue with shorts and a t shirt in the summer but i would wear the white for that.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by lapince

Funny I wear my 12 for any occasion, the only times I don’t wear it is at the pool or beach, not to scratch it, other than that and I wear it without hesitation, whatever I will be doing

to me my 5712 is the most beautiful watch i own. I guess i see it as a watch that has to suit the occasion. I absolutely love it, but i just cant bring myself to wear it the same way I wear my 5164.

Its my version of a dress watch.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

to me my 5712 is the most beautiful watch i own. I guess i see it as a watch that has to suit the occasion. I absolutely love it, but i just cant bring myself to wear it the same way I wear my 5164.

Its my version of a dress watch.

why the 5712 bezel is more prone to scratches than the bezel of the 5164 ?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

why the 5712 bezel is more prone to scratches than the bezel of the 5164 ?

i don't think it is... its just dressier overall and on a bracelet. The vast majority of my scratches are always on the bracelet so the 64 is more my daily watch.