More new ADs "rules" for sports and limited editions

[jh225]

Originally Posted by AK797

Shows how bad things are when you've finally broken your 10 year vow of silence for this.

I tend to be more of a lurker. This new “customer control” gets under my skin, big time.

Originally Posted by Dirt

The Mercs and Ford GT's are totally different animals.

The process to be able to get the nominated Ford model was very restrictive and I totally understand Ford's displeasure unless the owner was genuinely un-impressed with it and had a serious case of buyers remorse.
I would imagine the former GT owner will never ever get an invite to the party again.

Ford can be displeased as all get out and certainly has the right to not invite the seller to the next party, but they dang sure can’t tell the seller what he can or can’t do with his own property.

Same goes for pretty much any item from any company. Once I buy it, it’s mine and if I choose to sell it, give it away or smash it with a hammer, that’s my business.

[JM0127]

I bought a 116600LV today. They now are required to engrave the back with something to combat grey market and secondary sales. I inquired as to why and admittedly got angry as he knew I would. He straight up called the Rolex rep when I threw a fit and he told me on the phone they we're starting to require it on all of the hard to get sports models as of Feb 1. No shipping on sports models either. Sales receipts must also be photocopied with the warranty card FILLED OUT and with a copy of your license for the warranty. Rep said if I sold it, the warranty transferred so long as the name on the card matched the name on the Rolex warranty. I did not inquire about the stickers. He did not say anything about limiting stock to any person. Watches are for sale, not for holding in the case he said. The idea did come from ROLEX for the US market and was not well received and was put on the back burner to see how this genius plan works to combat greys. It is what it is. FML.

[ttomczak]

Originally Posted by Tools

Do you really think that Dealers care if you sell your own watch next week.

Actually from what I was told, while the dealer may not, Rolex does... My AD, who I have known for years were talking about the drought of professional models and he told me about a company that wanted to buy 6 LV’s through him. Rolex checked and apparently this ‘company’ was a known flipper in the Asian market where LV’s are bringing a high price in the grey market. So they didn’t fill the order.

Seems to be a different world, and if the AD wants to keep playing, they have to do as instructed.

[jh225]

Originally Posted by JM0127

They now are required to engrave the back with something to combat grey market and secondary sales. I inquired as to why and admittedly got angry as he knew I would. He straight up called the Rolex rep when I threw a fit and he told me on the phone they we're starting to require it on all of the hard to get sports models as of Feb 1. No shipping on sports models either. Sales receipts must also be photocopied with the warranty card FILLED OUT and with a copy of your license for the warranty. Rep said if I sold it, the warranty transferred so long as the name on the card matched the name on the Rolex warranty. I did not inquire about the stickers.]

Wait, hold up a second. Rolex told the AD to physically alter your brand new $10K watch? What are you supposed to tell a future buyer should you decide to sell it? I have a few words to say about that, and none of them are nice.

Has Rolex et all lost their minds?

I get the whole gray market, fakes, etc thing, but alienating your actual customers is not a way to go about solving it.

[tomallen]

Originally Posted by ttomczak

Actually from what I was told, while the dealer may not, Rolex does... My AD, who I have known for years were talking about the drought of professional models and he told me about a company that wanted to buy 6 LV’s through him. Rolex checked and apparently this ‘company’ was a known flipper in the Asian market where LV’s are bringing a high price in the grey market. So they didn’t fill the order.

Seems to be a different world, and if the AD wants to keep playing, they have to do as instructed.

So in other words, you are saying an AD puts in an order for a fair number of in demand SS sports/professional watches Rolex wants to know who the potential customers will before filling that order?

[tomallen]

Maybe the whole AD network is a sham and Rolex is feeding watches directly to grey dealers, they seem to have an abundant supply at higher prices. Create a shortage in one market venue and move product to a different market venue at higher prices

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by bmrisko

I wouldn't leave the AD without boxes and tags, nor would I purchase for one who insisted on keeping those. They rightfully belong with the buyer and essentially kill a large chunk of value if you ever decided to sell it on down the road.

I agree. People in the past didn't care about boxes and tags and threw them away. That is why there are many vintage pieces on the market without boxes and tags.

With the advent of the information age and the collectability of Rolex watches, all tags, cloths, boxes, outer boxes, etc. help a watch bring a premium in the secondary market if/when you choose to sell it down the road. There will be people would rather pay less for a pre-owned piece without box and tags, but there are others who will pay more and insist on box, tags, etc. or they don't want it.

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by tomallen

Maybe the whole AD network is a sham and Rolex is feeding watches directly to grey dealers, they seem to have an abundant supply at higher prices. Create a shortage in one market venue and move product to a different market venue at higher prices

No way... That would leak incredibly quickly. Kind of like if a professional sports team broke the rules and all team members knew about it. When someone got fired or traded, word would get out and people would be p-ssed.

No way Rolex is doing that.

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by JM0127

I bought a 116600LV today. They now are required to engrave the back with something to combat grey market and secondary sales. I inquired as to why and admittedly got angry as he knew I would. He straight up called the Rolex rep when I threw a fit and he told me on the phone they we're starting to require it on all of the hard to get sports models as of Feb 1. No shipping on sports models either. Sales receipts must also be photocopied with the warranty card FILLED OUT and with a copy of your license for the warranty. Rep said if I sold it, the warranty transferred so long as the name on the card matched the name on the Rolex warranty. I did not inquire about the stickers. He did not say anything about limiting stock to any person. Watches are for sale, not for holding in the case he said. The idea did come from ROLEX for the US market and was not well received and was put on the back burner to see how this genius plan works to combat greys. It is what it is. FML.

Can you show a pic of what they engraved on the back? It seems very unlikely that Rolex would allow all sorts of different jewelers and watch stores to use their own engravers or engraving equipment to engrave something on the back of brand new Rolex watches. Or am I not understanding something?

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by jh225

Gonna have to be the devils advocate here.....It’s none of the AD’s nor Rolex’ business if a buyer flips a watch 3 minutes after he obtains it. The AD set a price, the buyer paid said price, and it is now the buyers property to do with as he wishes.

It’s not like Rolex only produces 100 watches a year and needs to control the market. Ford did that with the new GT and got mad when a very limited car was recently flipped for profit. Sorry Ford, none of your business what the owner does with his property.

Personally, if an AD took anything that came from the factory and said they will be keeping it, you may as well cancel the transaction, because I am no longer interested in buying the watch.

Y’all may disagree and that’s just fine, but think about it for a second. If you bought a new Mercedes and the dealer said they were keeping the owners manuals and maintenance booklet, would you say “sure, no problem”?

I& you sign a pre contract then it absolutely is the manufacturers business what you do with the item. By law.

Let’s hope Rolex never goes down that road


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...car/915846001/

[tomallen]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

No way... That would leak incredibly quickly. Kind of like if a professional sports team broke the rules and all team members knew about it. When someone got fired or traded, word would get out and people would be p-ssed.

No way Rolex is doing that.

Rolex produces X number of watches a year and sells X number, You can go to an AD and be on a wait list or go grey and buy now at a higher price. Either way Rolex is moving the same number of watches. Sell one new Red Sea Dweller to an AD at wholesale, sell a dozen to the grey market at full retail and let them scalp the prices. That is happening now. How a grey dealer gets a BNIB open card watch is a guess, and there is no shortage there.

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by Devildog

I& you sign a pre contract then it absolutely is the manufacturers business what you do with the item. By law.

Let’s hope Rolex never goes down that road


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...car/915846001/

After reading the John Cena / Ford article, I came away from it with the belief that John Cena got the car at below perceived market value in exchange for agreeing to keep the car for a minimum of 2 years. Ford hoped to receive value for the celebrity endorsement of the product, and Cena flaked.

I think that a standard consumer buying a product can do whatever he pleases with it. I think that if he had to sign a contract agreeing not to sell it for a certain amount of time, that contract would not be enforceable although I am unaware of any provision in the law that would make it unenforceable.

If Rolex gives a discount to a a celebrity in exchange for some publicity and it is done by contract, then I think they have a legal case if the celebrity doesn't live up to the terms of the agreement. But I think that is just so much different than a standard guy buying a Rolex and agreeing not to sell it for a period of time... unless he is getting benefit of a significant discount and they are getting the benefit of publicity or something. Can't just force consumers to hold products for a certain amount of time. Of course you can create a black list and you can choose people to whom you will or will not sell your products to.

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by tomallen

Rolex produces X number of watches a year and sells X number, You can go to an AD and be on a wait list or go grey and buy now at a higher price. Either way Rolex is moving the same number of watches. Sell one new Red Sea Dweller to an AD at wholesale, sell a dozen to the grey market at full retail and let them scalp the prices. That is happening now. How a grey dealer gets a BNIB open card watch is a guess, and there is no shortage there.

I think Rolex is selling to ADs and not grey dealers and some of the ADs are gaming the system, knowing how it works, knowing how to not get caught, and selling to the grey dealers. I don't believe those pieces are coming directly from Rolex. Word would be on the street about that practice already and the ADs would have Rolex tied up in lawsuits for decades -- forcing the ADs to meet certain criteria, buy certain amount of inventory and then letting people that didn't qualify to be an AD get the watches for the same price or less to sell on the grey market... Doesn't seem likely.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Devildog

I& you sign a pre contract then it absolutely is the manufacturers business what you do with the item. By law.

I don't know if it's apples to apples, but when I was racing mountain bikes professionally, per my contract, I was bound not only to ride and race exclusively equipment supplied to me, but to hold said equipment for a set time period. This is where it may be different; as per the contract, technically, the equipment didn't belong to me until the satisfactory completion of said contract, at which point I was free to do what I chose with the equipment (sell it, give it away, keep it.) A contract is a contract, only question is whether or not you've signed one when you take delivery. How many times have you read the terms before clicking "accept" when installing software or using an app?

[mrc5081]

I have a feeling this was dealer specific. Maybe even rep specific

[HL65]

Originally Posted by JM0127

I bought a 116600LV today. They now are required to engrave the back with something to combat grey market and secondary sales. I inquired as to why and admittedly got angry as he knew I would. He straight up called the Rolex rep when I threw a fit and he told me on the phone they we're starting to require it on all of the hard to get sports models as of Feb 1. No shipping on sports models either. Sales receipts must also be photocopied with the warranty card FILLED OUT and with a copy of your license for the warranty. Rep said if I sold it, the warranty transferred so long as the name on the card matched the name on the Rolex warranty. I did not inquire about the stickers. He did not say anything about limiting stock to any person. Watches are for sale, not for holding in the case he said. The idea did come from ROLEX for the US market and was not well received and was put on the back burner to see how this genius plan works to combat greys. It is what it is. FML.

Congrats on your new LV. As far as engraving goes that is certainly not soemthing any of the 3 AD’s I work with regularly are doing thankfully. In fact they also do not require copy of license. So I’d find another AD if me as I would not be cool with the engraving even though it is simple light polish to remove.

[Mike_M]

As a luxury automobile dealer, I can tell you that manufacturers want their premium, limited build, special edition vehicles being sold by their franchised dealers—not brokers or re-sellers at an accelerated price tag. And they do take exception to flippers purchasing these units just for profit and warn dealers to take measures against it. They want those vehicles going directly to end users and not profiting flippers and gray market re-sellers. I’m sure Rolex is doing the same here with their AD’s.

[DMM_78]

I bought a Batman for someone out of state earlier this month. The watch wasn’t bought to be flipped I was helping someone out who couldn’t find the watch where they live. I went to the ad (never had made a purchase there) and the salesman had to “talk” the owner into selling it to me. Now I understand Rolex needs to protect its brand. However, I find it slightly annoying that you walk into a store with 10K to buy a watch and you get an interview instead.

[Xerxes77]

It’s very hard to controle the grey market but this new rules can be a first step. Rolex or any other watch brand can’t stop me to sell my watch after I buy it. Maybe I don’t like it!!
I think no us the final owner are Rolex problems! I think in this mode Rolex try to controle his AD who are connected with grey dealers and want to can have a evidence to know what AD suply grey market!
I think it’s not a secret AD suply the grey market to have some extra profit especcialy with those SS models who are on high demand!

[adg31]

It appears that there are only two ways to resolve this issue:
1. Don't buy the watches thereby decreasing demand.
2. Improve supply of the watches to better meet demand.
Taking off protective stickers, engraving case backs and retaining Warranty cards won't solve the problem alone. It also appears that option 2 doesn't seem to be happening, at least here in the UK, so I've gone for option 1.
Incredible as it may seem there are lots of other manufacturers out there with great products and fantastic customer service!
Surely we should all look to help Rolex at this trying time by purchasing other brands thereby relieving pressure on their SS sports models that are so hard to come by?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sprta]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

Can you show a pic of what they engraved on the back? It seems very unlikely that Rolex would allow all sorts of different jewelers and watch stores to use their own engravers or engraving equipment to engrave something on the back of brand new Rolex watches. Or am I not understanding something?

:
This

[SeaDweller50]

I believe holding the warranty card has a big effect on potential resale. Removing stickers is pointless imo.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

After reading the John Cena / Ford article, I came away from it with the belief that John Cena got the car at below perceived market value in exchange for agreeing to keep the car for a minimum of 2 years. Ford hoped to receive value for the celebrity endorsement of the product, and Cena flaked.

I think that a standard consumer buying a product can do whatever he pleases with it. I think that if he had to sign a contract agreeing not to sell it for a certain amount of time, that contract would not be enforceable although I am unaware of any provision in the law that would make it unenforceable.

If Rolex gives a discount to a a celebrity in exchange for some publicity and it is done by contract, then I think they have a legal case if the celebrity doesn't live up to the terms of the agreement. But I think that is just so much different than a standard guy buying a Rolex and agreeing not to sell it for a period of time... unless he is getting benefit of a significant discount and they are getting the benefit of publicity or something. Can't just force consumers to hold products for a certain amount of time. Of course you can create a black list and you can choose people to whom you will or will not sell your products to.

It’s quite common for certain high end vehicles to be sold subject to similar terms. Ferrari do it as do Porsche. They also carefully vet their clients.

The GT40 didn’t need a celebrity endorsement. They could have sold every one they built 5 times over. Cena got the car and then needed the cash as he was in financial difficulty from what I understand.

If you have contractual obligation to not do something, it doesn’t physically stop you but the other party could sue you for breach of contact.

It’s pretty black and white. You agree the terms in advance, you cannot complain after the event.

If all of these AD measures we are reading about are in fact real Rolex policies, then it’s only a matter of time before you will have to agree contractually with Rolex not to flip.

If that pre purchase contract is properly drafted, there won’t be any way out other than to risk getting sued.

[JM0127]

Originally Posted by Sprta

:
This

It has to be sent off once purchased. They wouldn't tell me where, only that it's sent off and I'd have it back later this week. Thursday or Friday. I'll post something once I get it. Had to be initials or a date or a name or something. My question is what will happen in terms of sales when someone walks in and sees one in the case, chooses to buy and they give the " but wait, there's more" line. Not being able to leave with it. I really like my AD. They've been good to me. I don't want to go to another. I've gotten a good amount of allocated items. I honestly cannot complain. However, I let it be known that I wasn't pleased. I'll send an email out to the "boss" at some point. It is what it is. It's all soup sandwiches.

[ttomczak]

Originally Posted by tomallen

So in other words, you are saying an AD puts in an order for a fair number of in demand SS sports/professional watches Rolex wants to know who the potential customers will before filling that order?

In this case yes, apparently since they were not a customer per say, but a company asking for a multi piece order, Rolex questioned it. It’s no secret there is a scarcity of the sports or professional (as Rolex calls them) line now, and also (apparently) they are vary aware of the grey market in areas of the world. My AD is a pretty large chain, so he’s fairly intune with what’s going on as much as any dealer can be from a closed mouth company like Rolex. He’s the GM of one of the largest stores in this area. In short, for good or bad, big brother is watching. For someone like me, this is pretty much irrelevant, I’ll never be on the short list of the VIP’s, but will get small preference over walk in the door types due to a many year relationship.

The best thing from it is the friendship, a magazine or two, and once in a blue moon, a freebie. Got my SD4k from him, and my LV ‘M’ series. He’s a good guy that has to deal with the rules handed down.

[ttomczak]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

I think Rolex is selling to ADs and not grey dealers and some of the ADs are gaming the system, knowing how it works, knowing how to not get caught, and selling to the grey dealers. I don't believe those pieces are coming directly from Rolex. Word would be on the street about that practice already and the ADs would have Rolex tied up in lawsuits for decades -- forcing the ADs to meet certain criteria, buy certain amount of inventory and then letting people that didn't qualify to be an AD get the watches for the same price or less to sell on the grey market... Doesn't seem likely.

This used to be a VERY common practice with Omega dealers, I had one out of DC that I could get any model from for about 25-40% less that any local AD (like a Jared). Was a great system, and no one got hurt, but in the end, Omega finally started cleaning up this market. I’m sure it still exists to some extent, I just don’t look for Omegas any more since every one is a LE these days.

I’m not saying any Rolex dealers do this, but last year when I got my SD4K (it still wasn’t popular), and I got a good price, I did get told about Rolex having issues about flipping them and that was last summer, so this isn’t really ‘new’ news.

[Raza_actual]

Originally Posted by jh225

Gonna have to be the devils advocate here.....It’s none of the AD’s nor Rolex’ business if a buyer flips a watch 3 minutes after he obtains it. The AD set a price, the buyer paid said price, and it is now the buyers property to do with as he wishes.

It’s not like Rolex only produces 100 watches a year and needs to control the market. Ford did that with the new GT and got mad when a very limited car was recently flipped for profit. Sorry Ford, none of your business what the owner does with his property.

Personally, if an AD took anything that came from the factory and said they will be keeping it, you may as well cancel the transaction, because I am no longer interested in buying the watch.

Y’all may disagree and that’s just fine, but think about it for a second. If you bought a new Mercedes and the dealer said they were keeping the owners manuals and maintenance booklet, would you say “sure, no problem”?

In the case of that Ford GT, I believe that there was a period contracted for that the owner (some famous guy, I forget who) could not sell. The owner of the car signed the contract and then breached the terms of the contract by selling it. Sure, you could say that as a restraint on alienation it’s a less powerful contract term, but chattels are treated differently from real property, so a reasonable restraint could be upheld.

Now, I could be misremembering—if it were just an oral thing, a gentleman’s agreement, I don’t think it would be enforceable. But as I recall, it was a written term in a contract signed by the original purchaser.

For the most part, though, I agree with you. While Rolex has an interest in keeping gray market supply down, it’s interest in its business practices don’t outweigh your ownership interest in the watch. Surely, you could pay your AD for the watch and then promptly smash it with a hammer in front of the dealer if you’d like. That’s your right. As it’s your right to resell. Were I buying a new Rolex and the dealer tried to keep the tags, I would ask for them. Then demand them. Then cancel the transaction if they refused. Not because I plan on reselling. But because I like to have my complete set.

[Raza_actual]

Originally Posted by Dirt

In principal they probably don't care.
But in terms of the potential repercussions they almost certainly do care and gradually, mechanisms are clearly being put in place to manage that more effectively.

In the future there will be less invitations to the best parties as Rolex gather more spotlights to shine on the right individuals.

I’m sure they do care for more than repercussions. If you buy a volume model and then sell it to someone else, the AD made one sale. If that someone else had bought it from them instead, they could have made two sales.

[Sprta]

Originally Posted by JM0127

It has to be sent off once purchased. They wouldn't tell me where, only that it's sent off and I'd have it back later this week. Thursday or Friday. I'll post something once I get it. Had to be initials or a date or a name or something. My question is what will happen in terms of sales when someone walks in and sees one in the case, chooses to buy and they give the " but wait, there's more" line. Not being able to leave with it. I really like my AD. They've been good to me. I don't want to go to another. I've gotten a good amount of allocated items. I honestly cannot complain. However, I let it be known that I wasn't pleased. I'll send an email out to the "boss" at some point. It is what it is. It's all soup sandwiches.

Thanks look forward to you teceiving the watch. Not sure how the engraving will affect the greys as it would be easy for them to add engraving.

[JM0127]

Originally Posted by Sprta

Thanks look forward to you teceiving the watch. Not sure how the engraving will affect the greys as it would be easy for them to add engraving.

I opted for yesterday's date.