Vintage Submariner bug just bit me: 16800

[JasonBetts]

I've never been a fan of a Sub, until I saw this ad. Its clean look and subtle sports aura with the beautiful aging look have caught my attention.

Since I know nothing about vintage Subs, will have to rely on your opinions.

Here's the story (according to the seller):

Rolex Submariner 16800
Year : 1985
Caliber: Automatic 3035 movement w/ Crystal: scratch-resistant sapphire
Dial : Matte Black w/ creamy hour marks and matching hands

Readings and comments please.

IMG_4282.JPGIMG_4286.JPGIMG_4288.JPGIMG_4289.JPG



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[offrdmania]

Piece looks nice OP, but three things concern me. 1. I cant tell what the corrosion is on the hands to determine if something is seeping through; ie, water or oil. 2. Missing three links in the bracelet which will make the bracelet quite small. 3. It looks as if sometime in its life the rotor has rubbed on the case back. I hope this issue has been sorted by now? Or maybe its just a reflection in the picture. Also, is it missing a screw in the movement?

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Piece looks nice OP, but three things concern me. 1. I cant tell what the corrosion is on the hands to determine if something is seeping through; ie, water or oil. 2. Missing three links in the bracelet which will make the bracelet quite small. 3. It looks as if sometime in its life the rotor has rubbed on the case back. I hope this issue has been sorted by now? Or maybe its just a reflection in the picture. Also, is it missing a screw in the movement?

Thanks for your reading Offrd. Salute to you and your observance in pointing out the missing screw. Seller was asking for around 4.5k. Worth buying?


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[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Piece looks nice OP, but three things concern me. 1. I cant tell what the corrosion is on the hands to determine if something is seeping through; ie, water or oil. 2. Missing three links in the bracelet which will make the bracelet quite small. 3. It looks as if sometime in its life the rotor has rubbed on the case back. I hope this issue has been sorted by now? Or maybe its just a reflection in the picture. Also, is it missing a screw in the movement?

That's about all the money on a later white gold marker piece IMHO. I would address the issues first and use them to your advantage in negotiations

[seabreeze60]

I'd say not for $4.5K. You can pick up a quality used Submariner for $5.5K or less. I look at Bob's Watches in California as a reference. eBay is another good reference but not my first choice to purchase a watch. Service becomes an issue, if needed.

The corrosion on the hour and minute hands along with some scratches on the body of the watch (picture #2) are something I wouldn't want to look at.

Spend the extra dollars and get something in top condition. They are out there!

[JasonBetts]

Yes the corrosion is bothering. As Offrd pointed out, it could be from oil seepage or even worse water. Is it tough finding period correct hands out there? How much will it set me back?


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[seabreeze60]

The board may have a better answer. But if you send to Rolex via an AD it will be $500 plus parts. My guess is that you are looking at over $1,000 when done.

[watchthisone2]

Also white gold markers are generally believed to have been fitted to gloss dials not matt ones.


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[roh123]

It's a glossy dial that have gone matte. You can see it damaged around the indexes. If you want a matte dial there are 16800's out there with painted indexes. These are more collectible if that is a word that can be used for a 16800. They are at least more prefered in the market. If you like the white gold indexes; find one with a better gloss.

My 2c at least.. Good luck!

[Gina Marie]

Case looks great. Dial is cool. Corroded hands are common for that time period. bezel is original to the watch. I like it. 4.5K i would not lose sleep over that. If you could get for 4.3 i would buy....4.5 you are fine. Dial patina in this vintage is also fine. you can get another dial for about 3-500 if you wish....i would not. the mid 80s subs had issues with dials and hands....part of their appeal. No vintage watch is perfect.....none. I would buy it. I have a 6800 matt and spidey. Love them both. Get it.

[Woody]

Looks like a fine example to me - the dial and the case both look great. You would pay a lot more for a similar example in the UK. I have just purchased a 1680 (during a short break in the US) which was fairly bashed-up and has a replacement dial for a lot more than you have been quoted for this 16800.......I would go for it and then send to RSC for a service etc. Good luck with your decision.

[swish77]

Nice example, and probably worth it for the price if you're specifically looking for this reference. This mid-'80s model was very prone to the corrosion on the hands and discoloration/matting on the dial, and some of these dials spidered. I'd never buy this reference without seeing it in person in all lighting/angles. The dials can get weird around the hour markers and age unevenly. Do an archive search on some of the good sellers' sites and you'll find plenty 16800s like that.

Good examples are super cool, though, and the pearls on all the inserts seem to turn to that orange color. I've never seen it on other references to that degree. Very distinctive.

[Frosty]

I think you can do better for that amount of money! Matte dials did not have white gold surrounds.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by swish77

The dials can get weird around the hour markers and age unevenly.

It's already like that if you look at the pic closely.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I think you can do better for that amount of money! Matte dials did not have white gold surrounds.

Yes, but a lot of these mid-late '80s gloss dials turn matte with age.

[cht]

The corroded hands are a no go, just looks like junk and it obviously wasn't taken care of for that to occur.

If they are replaced, you loose the patina and they won't match the dial.

[JasonBetts]

You're right Swish, the orange pearl and overall patina of this piece sparked my interest in Subs.

Regarding the corroded hands, how long do you think they will actually fail and fall apart?


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

You're right Swish, the orange pearl and overall patina of this piece sparked my interest in Subs.

Regarding the corroded hands, how long do you think they will actually fail and fall apart?


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Not sure what you mean by "fail," but they could stay like that, especially if the watch is properly serviced. With corroded hands, it's usually only a cosmetic issue, unless they are really, really bad and the corrosion has gotten into the movement. If I use a loupe to look at the hands on my vintage watches (all 1970s), there's a little corrosion on almost all of them.

[JasonBetts]

Originally Posted by swish77

Not sure what you mean by "fail," but they could stay like that, especially if the watch is properly serviced. With corroded hands, it's usually only a cosmetic issue, unless they are really, really bad and the corrosion has gotten into the movement. If I use a loupe to look at the hands on my vintage watches (all 1970s), there's a little corrosion on almost all of them.

Sorry if I confuses you as I'm new in the vintage world. What I meant by fail is if they can actually break, degrade into crust or falling apart one day.


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[JP Chestnut]

The patina looks nice, and the case is in good shape. However, I'd be hard pressed not to pass in favor of an early tritium 16610 without the aforementioned issues. It won't have the same level of patina, but the dial won't possibly fall apart in the future. The patina might come with time.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by JasonBetts

Sorry if I confuses you as I'm new in the vintage world. What I meant by fail is if they can actually break, degrade into crust or falling apart one day.


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Highly unlikely that the corrosion would be so extreme that the hands would actually fall apart. The tritium would probably crumble away before that happens.

I think you have other issues with the watch, as detailed above.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, but a lot of these mid-late '80s gloss dials turn matte with age.

I would consider a matte dial, one that came from the factory that way, with no white gold surrounds.

One, that was matte because it faded, I would describe as Tropical or faded, so as to not confuse the issue to vintage buyers. jmho