Used to hate grey dealer. Now hate them even more!

[asudarno]

Just came back from Tokyo trip.

6 ADs from Mitsukoshi Nihombashi, down to
Lexia Namikidori Ginza and 1 AD in Shibuya.

DaytonaC seems non existance.

100s asking for it each day.

And guest what, grey dealer Quark @Ginza888 got 2 black (New/Used) and 1 white (New).

Other Quark branches got at least 1 either black or white.

And there is a dozen of Quark around the country!

I used to hate grey dealer. Now I hate them even more!


End up buying Chanel Classic Jumbo

Price Ref
Retail 1,274,400 Yen
-Tax 1,180,000 Yen
Grey 2,000,000+ Yen

Pic taken on cute Japanese wrist

[TimeToWatch]

...

[sjg22]

Free market economics...

[asudarno]

Yeah free world.. Grey is now the AD of the AD

[Muzz]

All of those pieces came from an AD so I do not really know your logic behind your view?

[Uppersouth]

They seem to be good deal makers with the manufacturers. They are filling in the e-commerce component of Rolex's business.

[Bobby T]

That'a some pretty weird logic you have there.....your anger should be directed at the ADs that gave those dealers the watches to sell at above retail price

[Uppersouth]

My primary concern is the damage inflicted on AD's that adhere to the strict standards and invest in bricks and mortar. I can't hold it against the grey's taking advantage of the opportunity but do see the possibility of fewer Ad's in the future.

[asudarno]

I'm not angry dude.. no logic needed.. it's called sarcasm.. and im not an engineer hehe

[coralfarmer84]

ADs are pretty much becoming a distributor for greys.

[jbro352]

Originally Posted by sjg22

Free market economics...

The free market sucks...except for the winners in it.


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[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by jbro352

The free market sucks...except for the winners in it.


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there are likely no winners Here right? At a forum of all luxury watch owners, Lol.

[oldman2005]

Even here in the USA, You won't see a Daytona C on displayed at Rolex AD but you can get from the sale forums for much more than MSRP.

I can understand the frustration but this fortunately is a problem that money can fix :)

[hambone1983]

grey dealers are fine. They free up working capital for ADs by taking hard to move pieces and sell them at healthy discounts to MSRP (and no sales tax). Of course they want the in-demand pieces too. And they won't insist you engrave it like a lot of these ADs do.

[Vecuronium]

Where there is a demand, there will be someone to fill. Such is capitalism. The only way prices will drop is when people don't pay the mark up. You as a consumer need to decide whether you are willing to pay the mark up or simply wait for price to fall.

Then again you are buying luxury watches running you thousands of dollars, so don't lose perspective.

[sensui]

Your problem is wanting to buy a 116500 right there and then @ msrp....that isn't happening anywhere in the world right now (short of some really good luck, but unlikely especially in Asia). There are plenty of good buys and interesting pieces @ Quark, Housekihiroba, Jack Rds, Kamekichi etc (greys/used watch dealers in Japan).....the ADs in Japan most likely has no stainless sports pieces available much less the popular ones because thy have deals with the grey shops. I don't bother to visit ADs in Japan anymore except I'll go to Ginza Six just because it's the new flagship store for an experience, I don't expect to buy anything there and certainly wouldn't ask for a 116500 knowing the answer. It is what it is. Enjoy Japan and look at other pieces, so so much more to enjoy and buy.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by asudarno

Just came back from Tokyo trip.

6 ADs from Mitsukoshi Nihombashi, down to
Lexia Namikidori Ginza and 1 AD in Shibuya.

DaytonaC seems non existance.

100s asking for it each day.

And guest what, grey dealer Quark @Ginza888 got 2 black (New/Used) and 1 white (New).

Other Quark branches got at least 1 either black or white.

And there is a dozen of Quark around the country!

I used to hate grey dealer. Now I hate them even more!


End up buying Chanel Classic Jumbo

Price Ref
Retail 1,274,400 Yen
-Tax 1,180,000 Yen
Grey 2,000,000+ Yen

Pic taken on cute Japanese wrist

Its a simple fact most of the Daytona ceramic are bought then sold to the grey market for profit.And while there are those that will pay crazy prices for them then thats where most of them will end up, where there are hundreds of them for sale black and white dial.

[henry333]

Yea I saw a lot of daytonaC in Japan....all grey dealer . All stores has a few ..new used,..etc

[Rcg412]

same here, on flight back from Tokyo - plentiful Daytona C

[lucky86]

See any BLNR for a decent price?

Planning to head there in a few weeks


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[asudarno]

Originally Posted by Chadridv

there are likely no winners Here right? At a forum of all luxury watch owners, Lol.

Talking about luxury, most rolex SS retail price, are not that expensive compared to other "luxury" brands.. the grey dealer and flipper are the culprits making it pricier.. good job Mr Grey and Mr Flipper

[Mick P]

Chaps

If you think the prices are too high, don't buy, it is as simple as that.

They can charge high prices because there are plenty of buyers around who are prepared to pay the supplement.

Also, everyone seems to want to haggle a discount from the ADs, so you cannot blame them for selling to a Grey Dealer when demand exceeds supply.

You have to accept the haggle culture both ways. We want the prices low, they want the prices high, that is the free market. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

Regards

Mick
.

[DGB]

AD need the grey dealers to get rid of the unsaleable pieces, they give few desired pieces to the grey guys in return of purchasing 10's of unsold Rolexes.
For the AD it is good business as they can meet their sales targets set by Rolex S.A.
The grey dealer will sell the standard Rolexes with a lower margins and will put the high profile watches at a premium.
And everybody is taking benefits of that,

Except you and me of course....

[Chewbacca]

Interesting.

Maybe if all paid retail there wouldn't be a grey market to be mad at?

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Bobby T

That'a some pretty weird logic you have there.....your anger should be directed at the ADs that gave those dealers the watches to sell at above retail price

Those dealers probably share in the marked up profit. Too bad.

[asudarno]

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Even here in the USA, You won't see a Daytona C on displayed at Rolex AD but you can get from the sale forums for much more than MSRP.

I can understand the frustration but this fortunately is a problem that money can fix :)

oldman2005, iOS générations don't understand this smiley ":)" anymore

I did fly to NY dec 2016, pass-by 2 ADs, and saw 1 AD had it on display.

Japan 6 ADs, zero display.

Still remember those days, grey dealer use to sell ONLY old valuable i.e. Rolex Oyster Daytona, Coffee Panda, ref. 6263/6239 dated maybe around 1950-ish. They value with any price they wanted to. fair enough coz, its rare, used, historical, valuable etc etc..

IMHO, nowadays they just sell anything for money.

Passion = zero.. sad

[jon_jon]

I agree that gray dealers are huge in the watch industry and many of them have more watches and cashflow than ADs.

Tokyo is a great place to window shop ADs, but a huge market for pre-owned and vintage, possibly only second in size to HK in Asia.

[hugs]

Originally Posted by aschneid

...

Interesting info. I agree with especially the middle part. Thanks for the quality post.

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by Mick P

Chaps

If you think the prices are too high, don't buy, it is as simple as that.

They can charge high prices because there are plenty of buyers around who are prepared to pay the supplement.

Also, everyone seems to want to haggle a discount from the ADs, so you cannot blame them for selling to a Grey Dealer when demand exceeds supply.

You have to accept the haggle culture both ways. We want the prices low, they want the prices high, that is the free market. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

Regards

Mick
.

Couldn't have said it better.

[youthagainsttt]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

I agree that gray dealers are huge in the watch industry and many of them have more watches and cashflow than ADs.

Tokyo is a great place to window shop ADs, but a huge market for pre-owned and vintage, possibly only second in size to HK in Asia.

Totally agree, the scene here in Hong Kong is mind-boggling at time. There's a shop in Hong Kong, which has literally billion of $ of watches, like 30 RM and many many other watches which are difficult to source.

But at the same time, it works both ways - if you want to sell your watch you can literally go to numerous shops and ask. I got a very competitive price for my bluesy which I'll probably go ahead with in the coming weeks. To get this price I thought I'd have to sell it internationally and go through the minefield of chrono 24 but I can just sell it safely here face-to-face with a dealer