Help with Rolex Daytona (first time buyer)

[johnnymaybes]

Hi there,
I've been stalking the forum for awhile and am ready to pull the trigger on my first Rolex. I am considering a Sub 5513 or the Zenith Daytona 16520. A jeweler just told me he has a Zenith white dial L series 1994 production for $15,500. Does this seem right? I thought the L series was for 1989 and 1990 production. Perhaps I don't understand how the serial numbers and production years work?
Can anyone shed some light on how an L series Daytona gets produced in 1994? And is the price good or high/low?
Thanks and can't wait to be a part of this forum for years to come!

[Old Expat Beast]

Where are you getting 1994 from, the date on the papers? If so, it's possible that an L serial Daytona was sold new in 1994. They weren't always fast sellers. There is no way to determine a production date on that watch, other than roughly by the serial number.

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Where are you getting 1994 from, the date on the papers? If so, it's possible that a L serial Daytona was sold new in 1994. They weren't always fast sellers. There is no way to determine a production date, other than roughly by the serial number.

The jeweler told me the following when I asked what year it was: Daytona L series 1994 production, but sold in 1996 or 1997. Worn about 5 times all together.

So I just thought the L series based on a chart like this meant that the L series was made in 1989-1990. And so a 1994 watch would be a S series?

I guess I'm just too new to watch serial numbers to understand the chart.

[johnnymaybes]

I haven't seen the papers yet. All through texting. Family friend jeweler.

[johnnymaybes]

I replied to Old Expat Beast via another message but I think its in the que for approval. Sorry about that.

[locutus49]

Good luck. Daytona are nice.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by johnnymaybes

The jeweler told me the following when I asked what year it was: Daytona L series 1994 production, but sold in 1996 or 1997. Worn about 5 times all together.

So I just thought the L series based on a chart like this meant that the L series was made in 1989-1990. And so a 1994 watch would be a S series?

I guess I'm just too new to watch serial numbers to understand the chart.

Serial number internet date charts vary and are not exact, but 1994 for L serial is off, as you say. Maybe the seller used a bad chart.

[johnnymaybes]

I just keep seeing L series - 1989 on the internet so I am confused how an L series can be made in 1994. 5 years later they're still producing the L series zenith? Rolex did that?

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Serial number internet date charts vary and are not exact, but 1994 for L serial is off, as you say. Maybe the seller used a bad chart.

Ok thank you!! Yes, the jeweler is an authorized rolex dealer. I texted back "I thought the L series was for 1989-1990. I'll get back to you. Thanks!" All he said was You're welcome.

[Old Expat Beast]

His other claims sound suspicious anyway. Who is it? Any link to the advert or site?

[johnnymaybes]

Do you know what year range an L series Zenith should be within for it to be real? How would I go about verifying it's a real L series? Just the papers?

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

His other claims sound suspicious anyway. Who is it? Any link to the advert or site?

Nope I don't have any links. I just know it's someone that someone in my family uses and is an authorized rolex dealer. But yes, a red flag was raised when he told me the L series was produced in 1994. I barely know anything about vintage rolexes or Daytona's but a simple search on the internet made me think this can't be.

[Old Expat Beast]

"Sold in 1996 or 97" suggests he doesn't have the original dated warranty papers, and how does he know it was only worn five times?

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

"Sold in 1996 or 97" suggests he doesn't have the original dated warranty papers, and how does he know it was only worn five times?

Yikes. You're right. That's bad news. Especially if I'm going to be paying 15k for this watch. Looks like I'll pass and search for a 5513 instead and just put my name on the waitlist for the 116520 ceramic.

Unless he was going off the top of his head but he seemed pretty confident in the years. Especially when he didn't even correct himself or mention anything when I asked about L series being in the 1989-1990 range. I love the dial of that watch but I'm not prepared to spend this $$ with a questionable jeweler.

Do you know what the best options are for buying vintage rolexes? Should I buy from ebay? Authorized dealers? Jewelers? Some of the internet sites? A pre date Submariner would be a great first rolex I guess since it doesn't look like the Daytona is gonna be what I'm getting now.

[johnnymaybes]

He does have a SS 116520 white dial daytonas for 9800. But I wanted a black dial for the 116520 if I got one...but this was before I discovered vintage watches are way cooler.

[Old Expat Beast]

Look on the classifieds here. Then the check the seller references in the who's who section.

[Mick P]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Where are you getting 1994 from, the date on the papers? If so, it's possible that an L serial Daytona was sold new in 1994. They weren't always fast sellers. There is no way to determine a production date on that watch, other than roughly by the serial number.

Adam / OP

I was under the impression that the 16520 was the first 40mm Daytona issued by Rolex and became an instant best seller and always had a waiting list, a bit like todays 116500 ceramic Daytona.

All I would say to the OP is too buy what ever you like the best because it's your wrist that it sits on.

Regards

Mick

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Mick P

Adam / OP

I was under the impression that the 16520 was the first 40mm Daytona issued by Rolex and became an instant best seller and always had a waiting list, a bit like todays 116500 ceramic Daytona.

All I would say to the OP is too buy what ever you like the best because it's your wrist that it sits on.

Regards

Mick

Thanks Mick! Definitely! I love the 5512 and 5513 so I hope I can find one in good condition. As for the zenith daytona ...I'm just trying to wrap my head around why the jeweler said it was an L series produced in 1994. It still doesn't make sense because by 1993 it was S series. I'm going to ask him today if he has the paper work. Does the paperwork normally say when it the watch was produced or do you just come to a conclusion based on the serial number?

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Mick P

Adam / OP

I was under the impression that the 16520 was the first 40mm Daytona issued by Rolex and became an instant best seller and always had a waiting list, a bit like todays 116500 ceramic Daytona.

Mick

I just re-read your comment and that makes total sense. The daytona always seems to have had a wait list so for this one to be made in 1994 and sold in 1996-1997, especially being an L series is odd. However, I don't really know when Daytona's became popular. Weren't they discounted back in the day to get sold?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by johnnymaybes

Thanks Mick! Definitely! I love the 5512 and 5513 so I hope I can find one in good condition. As for the zenith daytona ...I'm just trying to wrap my head around why the jeweler said it was an L series produced in 1994. It still doesn't make sense because by 1993 it was S series. I'm going to ask him today if he has the paper work. Does the paperwork normally say when it the watch was produced or do you just come to a conclusion based on the serial number?

Tne 16520 wasn't an instant hit all over the world. There was no Internet hype back in those days. The warranty tells you the date of sale, not production, and the serial number. This is how internet Rolex serial/date charts are compiled, especially for watches made/sold after 1973.

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Tne 16520 wasn't an instant hit all over the world. There was no Internet hype back in those days. The warranty tells you the date of sale, not production, and the serial number. This is how internet Rolex serial/date charts are compiled, especially for watches made/sold after 1973.

I'm asking for photos of the bezel, dial and strap reference number so we'll see if its really a L series or not later today! If it is, it seems like $15k is a good deal for a new L-series based on the few listings I've been able to see. I'll post photos when I get them!

[Old Expat Beast]

The serial number is on the side of the case.

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The serial number is on the side of the case.

The jeweler would need to detach the bracelet to see that though, correct? I don't know if he's gonna want to go through all that trouble but I'll be sure to make him before I wire him any $$ :)

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by johnnymaybes

The jeweler would need to detach the bracelet to see that though, correct? I don't know if he's gonna want to go through all that trouble but I'll be sure to make him before I wire him any $$ :)

It's no trouble. Two minutes.

[Mick P]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Tne 16520 wasn't an instant hit all over the world. There was no Internet hype back in those days. The warranty tells you the date of sale, not production, and the serial number. This is how internet Rolex serial/date charts are compiled, especially for watches made/sold after 1973.

Adam

There is a 6265 Daytona up for sale in the UK for £32k and the date of production and sale has a difference of 6 years which meant that it laid about on the shelves of Rolex or the AD because it was a poor seller. It was 37mm and manually wound which made it uncool.

When the 16520 replaced it, it became an instant hit worldwide and there were long waiting lists to get your hands on one. It looked good, was 40mm in size and above all, fully automatic. It attracted buyers who were suave, sophisticated and demanded the best. It was seen to be a status symbol on the Grand Prix tracks worldwide and everyone aspired to owning it. When I worked in Grand Prix ( just for 5 months), everyone second person in the office sported a Daytona because looking cool was important to them.

Now a days, the 6265 that was the poor seller in its day is now highly prized and sought after and I wants one but the wife says no.

Regards

Mick

[jdmi32]

Pics would really be helpful. If it really is an L series, then it's one of the earlier ones and IMO highly unlikely that it was first sold in 1994 as these were very popular from the start. The dial is the key as far as determining price. The early floating cosmograph and four line dials are rare (black dials especially) and I've seen them priced much higher than 15K USD. You might also get the bonus of having an all brushed bracelet.

[johnnymaybes]

Alright the jeweler has sent me pics of the warranty with an L4 serial number + tag. I didn't get a pic of the serial # on the watch. But the dial is 5 lines so I'm not sure. Does this look like a L series zenith daytona to you?

[jdmi32]

Photo is small but looks like a MKIII dial. Too bad as the 4 liner could fall in the L4 range. Some sellers place a premium on the inverted 6 but 15K is still a bit high to me.

[johnnymaybes]

Originally Posted by jdmi32

Photo is small but looks like a MKIII dial. Too bad as the 4 liner could fall in the L4 range. Some sellers place a premium on the inverted 6 but 15K is still a bit high to me.

So this wouldn't be considered a very rare L-series? Would it still be cool to say it's an L series or would no one really see that if they looked at the dial? I know the inverted 6 is there but this dial seems to be more for the 1991-1993 years.

One more question: what price would you pay for this watch if you could? Should I offer a counter that is a lot lower? $15k does seem high without the four lines and the older bezel.

[JP Chestnut]

In what way would it possibly be "cool" to say it's an L serial, regardless of the dial? You either like it, or you don't. You either know enough to care about the differences, or you don't.